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Activision kills King's Quest: The Silver Lining

Shannow

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JarlFrank said:
Fuck, and I actually was looking forward to that project.

This wouldn't have happened if the Soviets had won the war. Damn capitalists.
Fixed
 

Zed

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bobby-kotick.jpg
 
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Jason said:
Fan-made King's Quest project <b><a href="http://www.tsl-game.com/" target="blank">The Silver Lining</a></b> received a recent kick in the teeth courtesy of Activision.
We complied with the request, and over the months that followed, we were able to work out a non-commercial fan license with Vivendi that allowed us to continue our work on the game.

Recently, however, ownership of the Sierra IP changed hands and became the property of Activision. After talks and negotiations in the last few months between ourselves and Activision, they have reached the decision that they are not interested in granting a non-commercial license to The Silver Lining, and have asked that we cease production and take down all related materials on our website.

Zeus said:
I know companies have to shut this sort of thing or risk losing the rights to their games, but you don't have to be a jerk and wipe out their forums.

No, this is simply Kotick being evil. They already had the licensed rights to work on the game. Activision thinks it can play take-backs and the small guys obviously don't have the money to hire lawyers.

I can't believe that these guys don't have the balls to simply edit out the 5 references to king's quest then send Activision a letter telling them to go fuck themselves, though.
 

lightbane

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I'm still more angry with the fact that tne last "official" game was like... 12 years ago? The terribad Mask of Eternity, and that fanmade project if my memory doesn't fail I recall the ocasional screenshot and even a demo or so.
 

DaveGilbert

Wadjet Eye Games
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Honestly, the biggest surprise (for me at least) was that this project was even still around in the first place! 10 years is a long time for any project, even a freeware one, although it looks like they were getting somewhere with the episodic thing.

Here's a funny anecdote. Back in 2003, the KQ9 team were holding voice over auditions for the game here in New York, so I figured I'd go. In chatting with the people there, it was obvious that most everyone there already knew each other from the KQ9 forums. The auditions seemed to be merely an excuse for them all to meet. They were a bit surprised that a complete stranger (me) had shown up. Some of these guys had flown clear across the country to attend, and others even came from other countries. I think I had traveled the shortest distance out of anybody there.

Anyway, that's the impression I got of the project as a whole. That it became more of a community of people hanging out rather than a group dedicated to finishing a game. And that's fine. Still, it's a crying shame that it was shut down so abruptly after being given the green light. What a bait and switch. Hopefully they will move onto to bigger and better things.
 

Felix

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Shannow said:
JarlFrank said:
Fuck, and I actually was looking forward to that project.

This wouldn't have happened if the Soviets had won the war. Damn capitalists.
Fixed

No. Unless you like re-education camp.
 
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(1) The game was terrible. It had some promising art, but the demo they released was godawful, and lacked whatever magic (if there ever was any) King's Quest had.

(2) The "license" they got explicitly said it could be revoked at any time. I'm fairly certain they posted that on their site, and I know it's the deal the guys who remade KQ1&2 and QFG2 had.

(3) It's hard to be especially sympathetic to people who build their games on existing IP. In almost every instance, they produce an inferior product that is parasitic on the creativity and labor that went into the original.
 

Arcanoix

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WanderingThrough2 said:
(3) It's hard to be especially sympathetic to people who build their games on existing IP. In almost every instance, they produce an inferior product that is parasitic on the creativity and labor that went into the original.

Not a single publisher lets a developer do their own thing unless said-publisher gets the IP rights of the work of the aforementioned developer, that way when the publisher makes a million dollars off of it, they can close the development studio and go on to hire other retards to make sequels. Fallout 3, anybody?
 

Zeus

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WanderingThrough2 said:
(1) The game was terrible. It had some promising art, but the demo they released was godawful, and lacked whatever magic (if there ever was any) King's Quest had.

I'll take that with a grain of salt. If you aren't a King's Quest fan, I don't expect you to enjoy a low budget fan tribute demo.
 

deuxhero

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Zeus said:
Arcanoix said:
Zeus said:
(and possibly Capcom) making Zelda games.

And then Zelda would turn into an "extreme-combat" game.

Hah! Believe it or not, Capcom already handled quite a few Zelda titles.

Excluding Link's Awakening, Capcom devloped/ported all The Legend of Zelda games for the Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance.

Their games were very well reviewed, on par with Nintendo's portable releases. Of course, Links Awakening is my favorite. I didn't care much for Minish Cap, though. Felt like they turned the whole world into one big segmented dungeon, and instead of exploring and adventuring around, I was hitting roadblocks left and right, forced to solve puzzles.

Were the oracle games any good?
 

Zomg

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How hard is it to scrub the KQ brand off your shitbag game you were never going to finish?

I have to lewl @ the anti-Kotick shit, the gaming industry has been pissing on you and telling you it's raining since the late nineties.
 

Zeus

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deuxhero said:
Were the oracle games any good?

Ahh, I forget, it's been so long. I only played them a little while, but I remember being impressed; thinking they had a whole lot in common with Links Awakening (basically on the same engine). Compared to them, Minish Cap was a real letdown, at least for me.

Zomg said:
How hard is it to scrub the KQ brand off your shitbag game you were never going to finish?

Depends on the amount of fan service. If every other character you meet is from an earlier game, and the puzzles and dialog, not to mention location artwork, are filled with references and in-jokes, they're pretty much screwed.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to run out and download those King's Quest I & II/Quest for Glory II remakes before they're shut down by the same amorphous blob what absorbed Sierra. (King's Quest III remake located here.)
 
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Zeus said:
WanderingThrough2 said:
(1) The game was terrible. It had some promising art, but the demo they released was godawful, and lacked whatever magic (if there ever was any) King's Quest had.

I'll take that with a grain of salt. If you aren't a King's Quest fan, I don't expect you to enjoy a low budget fan tribute demo.

I liked KQ5 and 6 when I was a kid -- the earlier ones came out before I had a computer that could play them. I went back and played the remakes of 1-3 as an adult.

It's hard to see how you can be fond of the earlier games without a heavy helping of nostalgia. All of the games, even (perhaps especially) the later ones are guilty of illogical puzzles and endless, unpredictable "dead-man walking" scenarios that are the shame of the adventure game genre.

A good measure of a man is whether he is fonder of KQ5 or KQ6. KQ5 (like KQ1-4 and, I suppose, KQ7) is a fairy tale. I would argue that KQ6 (like KQ8) is a fantasy story. In some respects, it's easier to forgive the game's failings in the fairy tale context (illogic feels more reasonable), and much of their goofy magic depends on that context. It's not surprising, though, that when lame-o fan spinoffs get made, they use KQ6 as the model -- even the KQ2 remake injecting KQ6-style fantasy elements into it. To me, that suggests that don't really get the series at all.
 

Sceptic

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Zeus said:
I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to run out and download those King's Quest I & II/Quest for Glory II remakes before they're shut down by the same amorphous blob what absorbed Sierra. (King's Quest III remake located here.)
Already have all of them, and I even used to keep an eye on them to make sure to get their updates before they get shut down (the 1.1 update for QFG2 is essential). Speaking of QFG2, it's the only remake I've played properly, and it's awesome.

You also reminded me that the SQ2 remake is supposed to come out in April (made by the same people that did the KQ3 one). Or at least that was the plan a couple of weeks ago, before The Silver Lining got shut. They had better get their game out soon before Activision notices it.

WanderingThrough2 said:
A good measure of a man is whether he is fonder of KQ5 or KQ6. KQ5 (like KQ1-4 and, I suppose, KQ7) is a fairy tale. I would argue that KQ6 (like KQ8) is a fantasy story. In some respects, it's easier to forgive the game's failings in the fairy tale context (illogic feels more reasonable), and much of their goofy magic depends on that context.
Wait, are you seriously suggesting KQ6 is not a fairy tale? It's the most fairy tale-ish game in the series, MUCH more so than KQ5. OK, maybe 7 is even more so, but 7 was way too Disneyfied.
 

Zeus

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Sceptic said:
Wait, are you seriously suggesting KQ6 is not a fairy tale? It's the most fairy tale-ish game in the series, MUCH more so than KQ5. OK, maybe 7 is even more so, but 7 was way too Disneyfied.

He's suggesting that the series might never have had any magic, and to back the claim, he's pointing out that the games are fantasy fairy tales.

:roll:
 

Sceptic

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WanderingThrough2 said:
A good measure of a man is whether he is fonder of KQ5 or KQ6. KQ5 (like KQ1-4 and, I suppose, KQ7) is a fairy tale. I would argue that KQ6 (like KQ8) is a fantasy story. In some respects, it's easier to forgive the game's failings in the fairy tale context (illogic feels more reasonable), and much of their goofy magic depends on that context. It's not surprising, though, that when lame-o fan spinoffs get made, they use KQ6 as the model -- even the KQ2 remake injecting KQ6-style fantasy elements into it. To me, that suggests that don't really get the series at all.
Zeus said:
He's suggesting that the series might never have had any magic, and to back the claim, he's pointing out that the games are fantasy fairy tales.

:roll:
Did you even read his post?
 

Zeus

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Sceptic said:
WanderingThrough2 said:
A good measure of a man is whether he is fonder of KQ5 or KQ6. KQ5 (like KQ1-4 and, I suppose, KQ7) is a fairy tale. I would argue that KQ6 (like KQ8) is a fantasy story. In some respects, it's easier to forgive the game's failings in the fairy tale context (illogic feels more reasonable), and much of their goofy magic depends on that context. It's not surprising, though, that when lame-o fan spinoffs get made, they use KQ6 as the model -- even the KQ2 remake injecting KQ6-style fantasy elements into it. To me, that suggests that don't really get the series at all.
Zeus said:
He's suggesting that the series might never have had any magic, and to back the claim, he's pointing out that the games are fantasy fairy tales.

:roll:
Did you even read his post?

Yes.

First he questioned "if there ever was any magic" in King's Quest games, then he went on to talk about how King's Quest games were either fairy tales or fantasy stories.

The kind of stories that tend to have a lot of magic in them?

Forget it.
 
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Sceptic said:
Wait, are you seriously suggesting KQ6 is not a fairy tale? It's the most fairy tale-ish game in the series, MUCH more so than KQ5. OK, maybe 7 is even more so, but 7 was way too Disneyfied.
Yes. Although it's been a while since I played it and perhaps the fantasy/fairytale break isn't quite the right articulation of the point.

The hero of KQ6 feels much more like a fantasy novel hero than like the typical Western fairy tale hero. Maybe more like a character from mythology than from fairytale. But I think my objection is more than KQ6 seems (again, to the fuzziness of my memory) to take itself Very Seriously by comparison to the other games. In particular, I'm thinking about making Hades weep "a single tear" or the Winged Ones or simply the fact that for the first time you have a handsome, strapping male lead, rather than the rather geeky heroes of KQ1-3, the female lead of KQ4, or the over-the-hill hero of KQ5.

It's unsurprising that when they went for the hero of their unabashedly fantasy KQ8, they recycled the hero from KQ6.

I guess maybe I'm using fantasy to mean "adolescent" and fairy tale to mean "child-like." So elements like the werewolf conspiracy in the KQ2 remake (a fan addition) strike me as "fantasy," even though you could certainly have a fairytale about werewolves.
 

Annie Mitsoda

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Wrong about KQ8 - the lead of that isn't Alexander. He isn't even a member of Daventry's royal family. He had a nice cameo easter egg bit in the KQ2 remake by AGD, however.

I grew up with the KQ series. I know this project was living on borrowed time, but seriously - I don't ever see Activision doing a thing with the IP, EVER. It seemed like kicking the little guy just because. And I am bummed about it. And the whole "no comment" response from them is hardly surprising, yes, but still - dick move.
 

Elzair

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Wrong about KQ8 - the lead of that isn't Alexander. He isn't even a member of Daventry's royal family. He had a nice cameo easter egg bit in the KQ2 remake by AGD, however.

I grew up with the KQ series. I know this project was living on borrowed time, but seriously - I don't ever see Activision doing a thing with the IP, EVER. It seemed like kicking the little guy just because. And I am bummed about it. And the whole "no comment" response from them is hardly surprising, yes, but still - dick move.

You are right about all of this. I guess story-wise it makes sense that the protagonist of Kings Quest 8 can not be a member of Daventry's royal family: Graham, Valanice, Alexander or Rosella. The parents are too old; Alexander is off in the Green Isles, and Rosella is probably in Eldritch with Edgar. However, it just feels weird that the protagonist is now Some New Guy who does not have any connection with the royal family. Furthermore, the fact that the royal family does not even make much of an appearance is disappointing. While I actually prefer as a game Ultima IX to Kings Quest VIII (they are both very similar), Kings Quest VIII is less of a disappointment. However, it just does not provide the series with any sense of closure; Kings Quest still seems . . . unfinished.
 

JarlFrank

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WanderingThrough2 said:
It's unsurprising that when they went for the hero of their unabashedly fantasy KQ8, they recycled the hero from KQ6.

Really, did they? I thought it was a different guy in KQ8, while KQ 6 had the same guy as KQ3 (Alexander of Daventry).
 

Sceptic

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WanderingThrough2 said:
The hero of KQ6 feels much more like a fantasy novel hero than like the typical Western fairy tale hero. Maybe more like a character from mythology than from fairytale.
OK I see what you mean now. I think what really bothered you is the mythology bits. Previous KQs had the occasional smattering but KQ6 was the first to have so much of it. And you're right in drawing a comparison with KQ8 there, as that's the only other entry in the series to rely on mythology to a similar extent. Somehow that never bothered me though, in either game (it was KQ8's least worry). I thought the juxtaposition of fairy tales and mythology worked quite well in KQ6 actually. But this is all in the environments and puzzles, not in the hero - the hero's Alexander from KQ3, and frankly I constantly felt I was controlling a younger Graham (think KQ2 Graham as opposed to KQ5) rather than a completely different character.

But I think my objection is more than KQ6 seems (again, to the fuzziness of my memory) to take itself Very Seriously by comparison to the other games. In particular, I'm thinking about making Hades weep "a single tear" or the Winged Ones or simply the fact that for the first time you have a handsome, strapping male lead, rather than the rather geeky heroes of KQ1-3, the female lead of KQ4, or the over-the-hill hero of KQ5.
Disagreed on the handsome strapping male lead. Graham may not have seemed that strapping because he was a few pixels in glorious CGA in KQ1-2, but he was certainly meant to be handsome and strapping. Same for KQ3, which is Alexander, same hero as KQ6. KQ4-5 were actually the ones that broke the pattern (though KQ7 did it again) by giving you the daughter and the aging hero. It was one of the nicest touches about KQ5 actually, but it was obvious it would have to be a one-shot deal and that the next game would focus on Alexander (KQ5's ending makes it pretty obvious Alexander will try to find Cassima again). As for taking itself seriously, all the games (except 7 I think) had certain segments that took themselves more seriously than others. KQ2 had the vampire castle, KQ3 had just about the entire game (multiple kidnappings, child abuse, Rosella about to be eaten alive by a dragon... when you think about it the game's much darker than it seems), KQ4 had the haunted graveyard and mansion, KQ5 had the enchanted forest and Mordack's castle... can't think of really serious bits in KQ1... and KQ6 had the minotaur maze and the Isle of the Dead. Personally I love the Isle of the Dead, it's a break from the usual mood but as you can see from above example most of the other games did it, and it was exceptionally well done in KQ6. That said, if you never liked the mood breaks and mythology in previous KQs but weren't bothered because they were minor, I can see why KQ6 would be "enough is enough".

It's unsurprising that when they went for the hero of their unabashedly fantasy KQ8, they recycled the hero from KQ6.
They didn't, as others have pointed out. KQ8 had a new hero that came from absolutely nowehere, but again that's far from KQ8's worst problem...
 
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Huh; I'd never played KQ8 -- aside from a demo that didn't run on my machine -- but I'd always thought from the screenshots it was supposed to be Alexander. That'll teach me to pontificate, I guess.

I disagree with your analysis of the "serious" parts of the prior KQ's though. Dracula's castle was silly on its face (even as a kid), and never had anything as self-important and self-serious as the "single tear" moment with Death. KQ3 was certainly more serious than KQ1 and 2, but had none of the emo-melodrama that the scenario potentially invited (I'm sure if AGDI had remade it, there would have been plenty added in. . . .), and certainly nothing like the serious airs KQ6 had. KQ5 had an old man with a goofy owl as his sidekick.

No, I really think the reason why KQ6 has such a fanbase is that it is adolescent fantasy, rather than childish fantasy. For me, at least, it's easier to look back fondly on a child's fantasy than an adolescents; the latter usually is embarrassing. (However cloying Disney movies from the 80s and 90s may have been, watching them today is far less mortifying than watching Record of the Lodoss War or something.)

For adolescent fantasy fulfillment, the KQ knock-off Dragonsphere is vastly better in all regards: writing, puzzle logic, and graphics. It's a neglected treat that I highly recommend for those who like KQ6.

But the truth is, almost none of the Sierra games hold up well. The QFG series does well; Gabriel Knight 1, for all its silly puzzle logic, is okay; and Space Quest 4 is at least self-aware of its awfulness. Lucas Art simply outshines them in almost every respect, even if what you want is serious fantasy (Loom).
 

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