Game News Age of Decadence February Update

[Infinitron]

Fair enough.

 

[Gord]

The problem with the combat system in AoD is not that it's bad, but rather that it would be much more fitting in a party based game.
As it is, the RNG can screw you quite quickly and many encounters are directly opposing one of the alleged design philosophies behind the game: You are a lone, rather puny guy in a dangerous world, no super hero.
Yet most combat will pit you against multiple strong enemies on your own.

 

[JrK]

Personally I think that AoD's combat would be 'fine' if there are ample opportunities to go somewhere else and level up (fallout/BG principle). I missed that in the demo.

 

[Infinitron]

The problem with the combat system in AoD is not that it's bad, but rather that it would be much more fitting in a party based game.
As it is, the RNG can screw you quite quickly and many encounters are directly opposing one of the alleged design philosophies behind the game: You are a lone, rather puny guy in a dangerous world, no super hero.
Yet most combat will pit you against multiple strong enemies on your own.

Sure, but on paper, it's "like Fallout, only better!" The Codex loves Fallout, right? Surely they'd love this even more.

Except they didn't.

 

[EG]

Sure, but on paper, it's "like Fallout, only better!" The Codex loves Fallout, right? Surely they'd love this even more.

Except they didn't.

Eh, you got it right, about the filler. What does AoD lack compared to Arcanum, Torment, Fallout, BG? All that nice filler.

AoD is good for what it is, though.

 

[JrK]

Pretty sure I did every side quest but still got owned at the mine entrace. There should be an option to level up beyond demigod otherwise IT 1sN't 4n AR PUH GEE!!! `11~! ! : x

 

[Gord]

Personally I think that AoD's combat would be 'fine' if there are ample opportunities to go somewhere else and level up (fallout/BG principle). I missed that in the demo.

You CAN do that. And there is NO level up as in some finite amount of XP after which you get a fixed amount to spend. Just do side quests before big battles and get those extra skill points.

Well, I'm hoping for more opportunities for hybrid characters in the full game. Non-combat skills could then be used to reduce the difficulty of a battle, e.g. by luring some enemies away, or such.
Might be that the 2nd version of the demo is better in that regard as well, but I haven't tried (such a character) yet.
In the first version it was either full fighter or full non-combat as far as I could tell.

 

[Infinitron]

Well, I'm hoping for more opportunities for hybrid characters in the full game. Non-combat skills could then be used to reduce the difficulty of a battle, e.g. by luring some enemies away, or such.

I think that the game is designed specifically to avoid the 'master of all crafts' syndrome of many RPGs.

The beginning of the game certainly is. Nobody is sure how well-balanced the late-game is, though.

 

[Infinitron]

Scaling?

 

[Gord]

Well, I'm hoping for more opportunities for hybrid characters in the full game. Non-combat skills could then be used to reduce the difficulty of a battle, e.g. by luring some enemies away, or such.

I think that the game is designed specifically to avoid the 'master of all crafts' syndrome of many RPGs.

No jack-of-all-trades character, a hybrid that can strike a balance between a fighter and a smooth talker/sneaky guy.
The Praetorian sounds like one: You have a guy that knows how to fight, but as a higher-ranking officer of a noble house he also knows a bit about etiquette and diplomacy.
In the demo however it was not possible to play him like that, you again had to focus on either extreme to be successful (and then also be lucky and choose the right combination of skills).

 

[Vault Dweller]

AoD takes three aspects of Fallout - C&C and reactivity, skill-based character building and interaction, and turn-based combat - and massively expands and improves them.

Those who are disappointed with AoD have discovered, to their horror, that those three elements weren't the most important thing for them in an RPG after all.

Poor Vault Dweller is merely guilty of listening to the Codex's favorite CRPG buzzwords and actually taking them seriously.

Actually, Saint and I championed the concept of choices & consequences in RPGs on the Codex. It wasn't a buzzword, it's a feature, but it's not a traditional (in a sense of clearing dungeons and slaying monsters) feature. It's a storytelling element, whereas the main RPG aspect was always combat. Still, I liked it and wanted to make an RPG based on it.

As it is, the RNG can screw you quite quickly and many encounters are directly opposing one of the alleged design philosophies behind the game: You are a lone, rather puny guy in a dangerous world, no super hero.

Yet most combat will pit you against multiple strong enemies on your own.

Where do you see the discrepancy? Realistically, a 'lone guy against the world' always meant that you have to deal with multiple opponents because nobody would fight you honorably, one on one. If you're a real badass, you can just attack and fight your way through. If not, there are always ways to lower the odds against you, like using raiders against the Aurelians or using poison to weaken them, or just plain ignoring them if they're too much for you.

Edit:

The Praetorian sounds like one: You have a guy that knows how to fight, but as a higher-ranking officer of a noble house he also knows a bit about etiquette and diplomacy. In the demo however it was not possible to play him like that, you again had to focus on either extreme to be successful (and then also be lucky and choose the right combination of skills).

You are an expendable noob in the demo, not a high ranking officer. You have to stick with what you do best at first (to survive and advance), then slowly develop other skills.

 

[Gord]

Where do you see the discrepancy? Realistically, a 'lone guy against the world' always meant that you have to deal with multiple opponents because nobody would fight you honorably, one on one. If you're a real badass, you can just attack and fight your way through. If not, there are always ways to lower the odds against you, like using raiders against the Aurelians or using poison to weaken them, or just plain ignoring them if they're too much for you.

The discrepancy might be more due to a missunderstanding - I was under the impression that you wanted to avoid the whole badass-pc thing.
Fighting route in the game will mean just that (in the demo, at least), though. Then again, maybe it's just my own wrong impression to blame here.
And of course you are right, there are many ways (and creative ones) to solve the mine quest, you just need a character who can access them.

You are an expendable noob in the demo, not a high ranking officer. You have to stick with what you do best at first (to survive and advance), then slowly develop other skills.

Extrapolating from the gain of skill points in the demo makes it look like it will be possible to spread out a bit later on, yes.
It would have been cool to get some more taste of that in the demo, though, because e.g. the Preatorian description sure sounded like that.

 

[EG]

I always forget to mention. The graphics are poorly optimized. They heat up the graphics card of THREE machines with AMD 4650 Mobility, Nvidia 8500 GT and Inter HD 3000 make on 3 computers I saw them used. I am guessing you don't have enough resources to play test?

In CCC|Vision Center, set everything to Performance and see if the problem continues. For some reason AMD doesn't play nice on Quality.

 

[Haba]

but can the name be changed to "age of decline", to make it more codex-friendly?

No, that'd violate my trademark registration.

 

[winterraptor]

Sure, but on paper, it's "like Fallout, only better!" The Codex loves Fallout, right? Surely they'd love this even more.

Except they didn't.

I wouldn't trust such a 'consensus' until this proves the case on Friday years after the game comes out.

 

[Western]

Well, I'm hoping for more opportunities for hybrid characters in the full game. Non-combat skills could then be used to reduce the difficulty of a battle, e.g. by luring some enemies away, or such.

I think that the game is designed specifically to avoid the 'master of all crafts' syndrome of many RPGs.

No jack-of-all-trades character, a hybrid that can strike a balance between a fighter and a smooth talker/sneaky guy.
The Praetorian sounds like one: You have a guy that knows how to fight, but as a higher-ranking officer of a noble house he also knows a bit about etiquette and diplomacy.
In the demo however it was not possible to play him like that, you again had to focus on either extreme to be successful (and then also be lucky and choose the right combination of skills).

I think an assasin is a better choice for a hybrid character, had some fun success mixing in some basic streetwise skills, rogue skills with dodge, little throwing and CS, still can't handle the toughest fights without underhanded tactics to tilt the scales in your favour but still well rounded.

 

[jewboy]

As usual I'm just waiting for VD to review the finished game before checking out the demo. Will it be merely "good for what it is" or something greater? Based on the quality of his writing in his legendary game reviews I have allowed myself to be slightly hyped about the dialogue. I am hoping it will be a noticeable step up from most RPGs. I don't want to spoil that by actually trying the combat demo and getting pwned by a rat. Is there going to be a translation into period correct Latin for true language authenticity? Romans speaking modern English really is kind of silly.

 

[Gord]

Is there going to be a translation into period correct Latin for true language authenticity? Romans speaking modern English really is kind of silly.

Seeing that the game is totally set in an parallel universe antique Rome and the educated nobility in ancient rome was also speaking old greek, I hope we will see loremasters and nobles using this instead.

 

[hiver]

The problem with the combat system in AoD is not that it's bad, but rather that it would be much more fitting in a party based game.
As it is, the RNG can screw you quite quickly and many encounters are directly opposing one of the alleged design philosophies behind the game: You are a lone, rather puny guy in a dangerous world, no super hero.
Yet most combat will pit you against multiple strong enemies on your own.

Sure, but on paper, it's "like Fallout, only better!" The Codex loves Fallout, right? Surely they'd love this even more.

Except they didn't.

Except its not.
AoD and Fallout games have some particular mechanics or design ideas in common - but they are not really even close, let alone the same.


The big difference between the two games is in the method of delivery. Of the players interaction with the gameworld and his story.



In Fallouts if you cant manage to achieve something you can just go away and do something else. Even increase other skill or two by farming and grinding exp and then use those to get a different .
Most of characters you can meet are always at their places and available to talk to, while game provides some character introduction and descriptions for them. Which allows the player to put everything in the context of the situations and quests in a more natural rhythm.

In AoD, if you fail a dialogue skill check youre basically fucked and forced to reload and do it again. Combat is a bit more variable in presentation, though not by much since every single encounter is win or die affair.
While many NPCs dialogues are only available during specific moments of specific quests - while at other times they basically rolepay mute statues.

Sometimes that fits, when it comes to higher ranking members of factions who realistically wont mouth off and talk to any random wanderer, but there are many characters that have no real reason not to be a bit more talkative.
Far too often the course of matters is just dry good ol business, business, business in our Age of Decadence.

And while i appreciate the gritty angle and general no nonsense approach, you cant really make an entire game and every scene and every dialogue in it play in the same fucking droning rhythm and expect people wont react negatively to it.
There needs to be some difference. Some peppered points of deviation from a single tune. Ups and downs.

This negative of course is further strengthened by playing only through a demo which is constricting affair by itself.
Matters will look better in full game.

Hopefully with even more fleshing out of the world, characters and lore because thats a main ingredient in NOT feeling like youre in perpetual skinners box.



Vault Dweller

Really like Lorenza character there. Nice writing, again. For the most part.
High time to see a strong woman character in this world of strong characters too.
(there should be more female characters in the game overall)

I have to say that the answer the player gives in screenshot eight:
"Id love to stay and chat..."
- really stands out as surprising, strange and basically unbelievable after former exchange, and that make her further dialogue seem forced.

The chosen player dialogue options in general strike me more as something a Humphrey Bogart would say back in the days of Casablanca, not a merchant in the setting and story like this.

-edit-
Also, the description of Lorenza in the opening screenshot... wouldnt it be better if someone would provide that, instead of the dialogue screen?