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Age of Decadence is the best CRPG of the past 15 years

the mole

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AoD is a more simplistic game, this is an objective fact, you literally cant deny factual information

Have you finished AOD and if so, with what weapons and have you played a dodge and a blocker? I've finished with hammer/block, sword/block x 3, axe/block, axe/dodge, throwing/dodge and dagger/dodge. Each one played differently. And even within each build there are weapon variations that matter.

I admit that I can't speak to POE because I have not played it. I get he sense that your experience with AOD is limited to one play through with sword/block and therefore you can't speak to "depth".
You just listed 6 different builds consisting of weapon type+block

In one playthrough of PoE you can experience multiple weapon types along with ranged weapons, the system is more complex
 

the mole

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Think of the many rpgs on the top 100 list that have melee, then think about if they have magic, then think about if they have guns, then think about if they have bows
So you're saying.............Arcanum has better combat than AoD?
:kingcomrade:
I never said better, I said complex, the original post I responded to claimed aod was more complex than PoE or wasteland 2, this simply isn't true

If you like only doing 1 thing in a playthrough like exclusively rolling dice to see if your block skill holds up you'd prefer aod, if you like controlling a party and utilizing multiple forms of combat with more tactical options then you'd prefer something like arcanum or poe
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
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aod was more complex than PoE or wasteland 2, this simply isn't true
did you even play AoD? did you notice all the different attack buttons? those that weren't there in the other games you mentioned? is this a DU shekel bot to generate posts?
 

Saduj

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You just listed 6 different builds consisting of weapon type+block

In one playthrough of PoE you can experience multiple weapon types along with ranged weapons, the system is more complex

First off, that you didn't answer my question or reject my theory that you've only played sword/block in AOD is a confirmation that I'm right about your lack of experience with the game and its depth. Secondly, if you did know what you're talking about then you'd know that "weapon type+block" is not a "build" by itself because your stats will also change how your character works. And ancillary skills like critical strike, crafting and alchemy drastically change combat effectiveness.

I've played many games where characters can use any weapon in melee and it doesn't matter because there is no difference. So just saying that access to weapon types equals more complexity isn't universally true. Unless there are trade offs when switching from one to the other, it doesn't matter and you're just going to equip the highest quality weapon of any type you can find.

In AOD, not only does a hammer and a dagger play very differently but which dagger or which hammer matters. Even using a shield or not in many games just affects AC, where in AOD the choice to go shield or dodge presents huge trade offs.
 

the mole

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You just listed 6 different builds consisting of weapon type+block

In one playthrough of PoE you can experience multiple weapon types along with ranged weapons, the system is more complex

First off, that you didn't answer my question or reject my theory that you've only played sword/block in AOD is a confirmation that I'm right about your lack of experience with the game and its depth. Secondly, if you did know what you're talking about then you'd know that "weapon type+block" is not a "build" by itself because your stats will also change how your character works. And ancillary skills like critical strike, crafting and alchemy drastically change combat effectiveness.

I've played many games where characters can use any weapon in melee and it doesn't matter because there is no difference. So just saying that access to weapon types equals more complexity isn't universally true. Unless there are trade offs when switching from one to the other, it doesn't matter and you're just going to equip the highest quality weapon of any type you can find.

In AOD, not only does a hammer and a dagger play very differently but which dagger or which hammer matters. Even using a shield or not in many games just affects AC, where in AOD the choice to go shield or dodge presents huge trade offs.
You will play the hammer the same as a sword for the most part, you can rely on fast attacks even more, for axe I assume you lower their dodge so you can go for big attacks, but why do that when fast attacks will kill just as fast for the most part, really you're going to be using 3 attacks at most in your repertoire with any given weapon type, do you consider 3 attacks depth, that seems to be a pretty small pool of abilities to draw from
 

the mole

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aod was more complex than PoE or wasteland 2, this simply isn't true
did you even play AoD? did you notice all the different attack buttons? those that weren't there in the other games you mentioned? is this a DU shekel bot to generate posts?
I beat it, with swords fast attack is the best because you want to stack bleed and poison as much as possible, obviously if you're facing the arena grand champ you'll want to cripple him at least in some way after a Bola, but for almost every fight in the game you want to stack poison and bleed
 

Saduj

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The 3 attack thing just isn't true. The three basic attacks plus every type of aimed attack are useful in every game. And with some weapons hitting multiple enemies with one attack is a frequent strategy.
 

Saduj

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why do that when fast attacks will kill just as fast for the most part,

You don't use fast attacks against heavily armored enemies who block unless you have just enough left over AP for a fast attack after first using better options.

Edit: Even for easy fights, your base AP is going to determine which attacks you are using.
 

the mole

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why do that when fast attacks will kill just as fast for the most part,

You don't use fast attacks against heavily armored enemies who block unless you have just enough left over AP for a fast attack after first using better options.
OK for the fight at the mine I think I had 4 or 5 sword right after leaving the first city, there was no way I was consistently going to hit a heavy or standard attack with swords, so the whole fight was praying I got bleed and poison stacks, and that's how most fights in the game will play out because your accuracy won't be good enough to depend on heavy attacks, and you'll often be wasting time going for aimed attacks because you could be stacking extra bleed and poison with lower ap attacks
 

Saduj

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OK for the fight at the mine I think I had 4 or 5 sword right after leaving the first city, there was no way I was consistently going to hit a heavy or standard attack with swords, so the whole fight was praying I got bleed and poison stacks, and that's how most fights in the game will play out because your accuracy won't be good enough to depend on heavy attacks, and you'll often be wasting time going for aimed attacks because you could be stacking extra bleed and poison with lower ap attacks

That may be true for the character you made. Relying on a poison was a choice. Maybe someone else put more points into their weapon skill instead of investing in alchemy so they have a better THC. Or they went with crafting and can make weapons with higher THC bonuses. Or they have higher perception so they have a better THC. Or they invested in critical strike so low THC aimed shots still make sense. Or they are using a different sword with lower passive bonus but higher THC or crit chance.
 

barghwata

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Haha, i think you guys are ganging up a little too much on the guy, take it easy.........

OK well don't claim a game where you use 3 attacks in melee as the game with the deepest waters and tactics in the history of video games, I would have never posted until I saw that blasphemy

I think his point in general, is that Wasteland 2 and PoE have more complexity/variety then AoD which i think is objectivley true. But where i don't agree with him is that complexity doesn't always translate to tactical depth, there are many games that have a large variety of spells, abilities and weapons to choose from that amount to nothing, complexity is generally a good thing to have in a tactical RPG, but only if it is actually impactful otherwise it's just bloated for the sake of it, you can actually create a lot of depth from simple systems, but i do personally think that combat systems that are both deep and complex at the same time are generally more fun.

I played Wasteland 2 for a very short amount of time and never played PoE so i can't be sure, but i will play devil's advocate and give some examples in his place of games that i personally think have both more complexity and depth:

Icewind Dale
Temple of Elemental Evil
Divinity: Original Sins (kind of....)
Silent Storm
Jagged Alliance 2 (obviously)
High calibre 7.62
etc...

These are all great tactical RPGs that i recommend everyone plays by the way, but to compare these games with AoD is utterly unfair since these games were specifically made for tactical combat, AoD is a story driven RPG with alot of C&C, and it manages to have decent combat on top of that not to mention the limitation that the game has of not being party based, when it comes to solo tactical games i can only think of underrail.
 

Saduj

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Dungeon Rats is a tactical dungeon crawler that just imported the AOD combat system and it is great. No way you get out of the first level without thinking through every encounter carefully.

Also, I've played Wasteland 2 and liked it. But there is less meaningful variety and less tactical depth. The armor system is broken. Maxing initiative is clearly the best build. And assault rifles are clearly the best weapon. Having a sniper or two makes some sense but there is no reason to go with SMG or shotgun and the experience with these weapons is only different in that they are inferior to assault rifles. They tried to do something different with energy weapons but that was hampered by how badly they fucked up armor. There are less attack types as well.
 

barghwata

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Haha, i think you guys are ganging up a little too much on the guy, take it easy.........
oh no, he is either a troll or an obnoxious retard, both need no heed.

When you insult or make fun of people who are trying to have a civil debate with you, it generally means you're either a troll or have no idea how to respond to their arguments, if you have nothing insightful to say to counter his arguments or convince him of your point of view, then it's better to not say anything at all.


I think his point in general, is that Wasteland 2 and PoE have more complexity/variety then AoD which i think is objectivley true.

you might as well die in a fire :happytrollboy:

You're conflating complexity with depth just as mole does, a game can be the most complex in the world but utter garbage neverthless.

Dungeon Rats is a tactical dungeon crawler that just imported the AOD combat system and it is great. No way you get out of the first level without thinking through every encounter carefully.

Indeed dungeon rats shows that AoD's combat system can work pretty well in a tactical game.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
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civil debate
Taking stabs at AoD is not "Civil debate".

conflating
giphy.gif

this is you on a saturday night.
 

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