Age of Decadence is the best CRPG of the past 15 years

[Deleted Member 22431]

it's not like you even have choice since you can't fool around doing nonsensical degenerate gameplay that has nothing to do with the quests because the developers are not retarded.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[barghwata]

I agree, but AoD did have a major problem ......... when i played the game i played it like a roguelike, when i died that was it; i would just delete my save and start a new run, it was fustrating but quite rewarding once i actually managed to finish the game.
However there were times where i would just get blocked or stuck even though i did my best to specialise my characters, i don't have a problem with dying but getting blocked is awfully annoying because you don't really get an ending or a closure to your run and you feel like you wasted a lot of time for nothing.

You are focusing on the downsides of this experience due to negativity bias. The upside of this frustration is that the gameworld feels more real and genuine. They are not silly things you can explore with every build just because you feel entitled to. They are there as real obstacles and they won’t budge. Once you finally beat them, you feel rewarded, whether you are planning ahead or not. People who complain about gated content and text-adventure gameplay are egocentric idiots who despise stat/skill checks.

Yes i did say beating the game is rewarding if you would only read what i said, nor do i have any issue with gated content or text-adventure gameplay but i am not if you were talking about me or someone else, the issue is once i finished my first run, i had already understood how the game works and what skills work with each other, the next two runs were very easy, because all i had to do was specialise my build in an efficient way and that was it, all i had to do after that was click on the appropriate skill checks and watch as i succeed every one of them all the way to the end of the game, maybe i got lucky i don't know, but it was then that the lack of impact that the player's input has when playing with a non combatant character became apparent to me, because the game quite literally tells you what to say. If you're playing a character specialised in persuation and a persuation skill check pops up in a conversation you're obviously going to immediately click on it, and you know it's going to work, you don't really have to think about what you're saying or what's the best way to persuade the person you're talking to because the persuation skill got you covered.

And it's not a text-adventure gameplay problem at all, look at Disco Elysium for instance, most skill checks in the game are passive, and are only there to give you hints on what you should say or do instead of telling you what dialogue option works directly, and what's even better is that passing certain dialogue checks sometimes backfires on the player, or doesn't give the result that was intended at all, it looks like a game where you have to really think before you speak, meaning that the player's input actually matters.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

AoD is fine, but I dont like Vinney the developour

 

[Verylittlefishes]

And it's not a text-adventure gameplay problem at all, look at Disco Elysium for instance, most skill checks in the game are passive, and are only there to give you hints on what you should say or do instead of telling you what dialogue option works directly, and what's even better is that passing certain dialogue checks sometimes backfires on the player, or doesn't give the result that was intended at all, it looks like a game where you have to really think before you speak, meaning that the player's input actually matters.

well hello fellow time traveler

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

If you're playing a character specialised in persuation and a persuation skill check pops up in a conversation you're obviously going to immediately click on it, and you know it's going to work, you don't really have to think about what you're saying or what's the best way to persuade the person you're talking to because the persuation skill got you covered.

Just like every other cRPG. If the problem is a limitation associated with the genre and conventions about dialogue trees, I can live with that.

And it's not a text-adventure gameplay problem at all, look at Disco Elysium for instance, most skill checks in the game are passive, and are only there to give you hints on what you should say or do instead of telling you what dialogue option works directly, and what's even better is that passing certain dialogue checks sometimes backfires on the player, or doesn't give the result that was intended at all, it looks like a game where you have to really think before you speak, meaning that the player's input actually matters.

Sorry, but that’s too much. Right now DE is only an interesting conceptual promise in a valiant attempt to improve dialogue systems. Nothing more. The game wasn’t even released yet. It will take at least a couple of months before cRPG players can properly check every nook and cranny of the game. You can’t make comparisons of a well-received cRPG that pushed the natural limitations of the genre to its limits with an unreleased game that people don’t even know yet. You don’t know if the game works. You just think it does.

 

[barghwata]

And it's not a text-adventure gameplay problem at all, look at Disco Elysium for instance, most skill checks in the game are passive, and are only there to give you hints on what you should say or do instead of telling you what dialogue option works directly, and what's even better is that passing certain dialogue checks sometimes backfires on the player, or doesn't give the result that was intended at all, it looks like a game where you have to really think before you speak, meaning that the player's input actually matters.

well hello fellow time traveler

There is some gameplay footage available already you know, and people who already got review copies of the game.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

There is some gameplay footage available already you know, and people who already got review copies of the game.

That's not good enough to make a proper collective assessment of the game. Sorry.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

And it's not a text-adventure gameplay problem at all, look at Disco Elysium for instance, most skill checks in the game are passive, and are only there to give you hints on what you should say or do instead of telling you what dialogue option works directly, and what's even better is that passing certain dialogue checks sometimes backfires on the player, or doesn't give the result that was intended at all, it looks like a game where you have to really think before you speak, meaning that the player's input actually matters.

well hello fellow time traveler

There is some gameplay footage available already you know, and people who already got review copies of the game.

Sorry, sir, the peasants won't bother thou no more.

 

[barghwata]

There is some gameplay footage available already you know, and people who already got review copies of the game.

That's not good enough to make a proper collective assessment of the game. Sorry.

I agree, i just brought it up as an example of how you might go about making text adventure style RPGs differently, the concept of passive skill checks and skill checks that can backfire seemes quite interesting, but you're right it might not work out in the final release.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

I agree, i just brought it up as an example of how you might go about making text adventure style RPGs differently, the concept of passive skill checks and skill checks that can backfire seemes quite interesting, but you're right it might not work out in the final release.

I understand. Another game which is trying to improve dialogue systems is Titan Outpost. It has weird gameplay but is refreshing. You might want to check it out.

 

[barghwata]

I agree, i just brought it up as an example of how you might go about making text adventure style RPGs differently, the concept of passive skill checks and skill checks that can backfire seemes quite interesting, but you're right it might not work out in the final release.

I understand. Another game which is trying to improve dialogue systems is Titan Outpost. It has weird gameplay but is refreshing. You might want to check it out

Thanks, i will make sure to look it up.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Fuck, I got drunk yesterday and bought AoD again.

 

[JarlFrank]

And it's not a text-adventure gameplay problem at all, look at Disco Elysium for instance, most skill checks in the game are passive, and are only there to give you hints on what you should say or do instead of telling you what dialogue option works directly, and what's even better is that passing certain dialogue checks sometimes backfires on the player, or doesn't give the result that was intended at all, it looks like a game where you have to really think before you speak, meaning that the player's input actually matters.

Shh, you could trigger the "RPGs are about character skill, not about player skill" crowd

 

[barghwata]

And it's not a text-adventure gameplay problem at all, look at Disco Elysium for instance, most skill checks in the game are passive, and are only there to give you hints on what you should say or do instead of telling you what dialogue option works directly, and what's even better is that passing certain dialogue checks sometimes backfires on the player, or doesn't give the result that was intended at all, it looks like a game where you have to really think before you speak, meaning that the player's input actually matters.

Shh, you could trigger the "RPGs are about character skill, not about player skill" crowd

It's unfortunate if there is a "player skill vs character skill" debate in the first place, since RPGs can prioritise both of those things at the same time.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Ok now my assasin is young god of crit strike with 35 hp

How fast will i die?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Ok now my assasin is young god of crit strike with 35 hp

How fast will i die?

how fast can you reload?

like a young Clint Eastwood

 

[HeatEXTEND]

the issue is once i finished my first run, i had already understood how the game works

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

Ok now my assassin is young god of crit strike with 35 hp

How fast will i die?

It depends on the sequence of fights, use of positioning, understanding of the different types of attacks, whether or not you decide to use of bolas, nets, poison and bombs, etc. 35 is low, not ideal, but doable.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

There is some gameplay footage available already you know, and people who already got review copies of the game.

That's not good enough to make a proper collective assessment of the game. Sorry.

I agree, i just brought it up as an example of how you might go about making text adventure style RPGs differently, the concept of passive skill checks and skill checks that can backfire seemes quite interesting, but you're right it might not work out in the final release.

It absolutely works. I’ve got 50ish hours in.

 

[the mole]

There is more to it than that. I am not sure if you know, but AoD was a project during the worst time for RPGs where real C&C had literally become unthinkable for even AAA games and Turn Based mechanics was considered Gauche and retrograde by most popular sources. AoD was that one ray of light that some of us clung to in the Age of Decadence of video games. It was really something some of us held to be worth waiting for until the Thursday.

Remember this classic interview at Rock, Paper and Shotgun? Vault Dweller was brutal back then:

When you have time, Kieron, how about writing an article explaining the difference between RPGs and shooters to your audience? Or maybe an article mentioning that the first computer games were real-time, not turn-based, and disputing the popular opinion that RT is more advanced than TB? I mean, it’s nice that your site tries to attract morons and makes them feel at home, but shouldn’t you be educating them too? It wouldn’t take much to double their IQs, so if you want, I can give you a hand there.

And believe you me, AoD team had very lofty goals which from standards of the day and the toys they were playing with looked impossible. I can attest that they achieved all of them. A deep and difficult combat mechanic, great C&C and a lot of character options to choose from.

It is their first game too. They were all newbies. Not many people can make a game of that caliber in their first try.

Turn based game mechanic no longer a rare thing in gaming. In general, the Kickstarter revival took away a lot of glamour associated with AoD. It should really have been held as a great milestone but was buried under a shower or mediocre releases which had the same taglines, such as Wasteland 2, PoE etc.

Which is why this cRPG renascence thing is a lie. The games that took the media spotlight were made by veterans who never wanted to make traditional cRPGs in the first place. They milked our nostalgia, dumbed down the genre with shallow combat mechanics and C&C, and left many new players spoiled and confused. The real renascence is a silent one, and it revovles around a few titles that never got the accolades they deserve.

Are you implying aod has deep combat mechanics other than max your stats

In wasteland you can use cover and positioning to make up for a lack of combat skill, in aod you literally just get raped and no amount of positioning or tactics can save you, it's on the level of jrpgs in combat depth

Every no name beggar fucktard and bandit has 10 in weapon skill dodge and critical strike, somehow vendors never restock so if you used your bolas or bombs to beat the arena grand champ who uses cheat codes to get multiple turns guess what you're shit out of luck, throwing doesn't do shit, you're expected to just max one thing like a retard

 

[the mole]

Not an argument

 

[Verylittlefishes]

There is more to it than that. I am not sure if you know, but AoD was a project during the worst time for RPGs where real C&C had literally become unthinkable for even AAA games and Turn Based mechanics was considered Gauche and retrograde by most popular sources. AoD was that one ray of light that some of us clung to in the Age of Decadence of video games. It was really something some of us held to be worth waiting for until the Thursday.

Remember this classic interview at Rock, Paper and Shotgun? Vault Dweller was brutal back then:

When you have time, Kieron, how about writing an article explaining the difference between RPGs and shooters to your audience? Or maybe an article mentioning that the first computer games were real-time, not turn-based, and disputing the popular opinion that RT is more advanced than TB? I mean, it’s nice that your site tries to attract morons and makes them feel at home, but shouldn’t you be educating them too? It wouldn’t take much to double their IQs, so if you want, I can give you a hand there.

And believe you me, AoD team had very lofty goals which from standards of the day and the toys they were playing with looked impossible. I can attest that they achieved all of them. A deep and difficult combat mechanic, great C&C and a lot of character options to choose from.

It is their first game too. They were all newbies. Not many people can make a game of that caliber in their first try.

Turn based game mechanic no longer a rare thing in gaming. In general, the Kickstarter revival took away a lot of glamour associated with AoD. It should really have been held as a great milestone but was buried under a shower or mediocre releases which had the same taglines, such as Wasteland 2, PoE etc.

Which is why this cRPG renascence thing is a lie. The games that took the media spotlight were made by veterans who never wanted to make traditional cRPGs in the first place. They milked our nostalgia, dumbed down the genre with shallow combat mechanics and C&C, and left many new players spoiled and confused. The real renascence is a silent one, and it revovles around a few titles that never got the accolades they deserve.

Are you implying aod has deep combat mechanics other than max your stats

In wasteland you can use cover and positioning to make up for a lack of combat skill, in aod you literally just get raped and no amount of positioning or tactics can save you, it's on the level of jrpgs in combat depth

Every no name beggar fucktard and bandit has 10 in weapon skill dodge and critical strike, somehow vendors never restock so if you used your bolas or bombs to beat the arena grand champ who uses cheat codes to get multiple turns guess what you're shit out of luck, throwing doesn't do shit, you're expected to just max one thing like a retard

Mom gimme my DragonSlayerAncientSword +15

 

[the mole]

Can't read, not an argument, failed to address any of my points

 

[Parabalus]

Are you implying aod has deep combat mechanics other than max your stats

In wasteland you can use cover and positioning to make up for a lack of combat skill, in aod you literally just get raped and no amount of positioning or tactics can save you, it's on the level of jrpgs in combat depth

Every no name beggar fucktard and bandit has 10 in weapon skill dodge and critical strike, somehow vendors never restock so if you used your bolas or bombs to beat the arena grand champ who uses cheat codes to get multiple turns guess what you're shit out of luck, throwing doesn't do shit, you're expected to just max one thing like a retard

Try winning all fights with 0 def or 0 offense (or both) without tactics or positioning.