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Age of Wonders 3

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Multi-headed Cow, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. MilesBeyond Cipher

    MilesBeyond
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    This is actually a complaint I have with AoW 3 - it does allow you to pick which way the unit faces without moving it, but the controls for doing so are clunky and counter-intuitive (you hold down the right mouse button on the hex that the unit is on and kinda vaguely move the mouse in the direction you want it to face?). It's a fairly important part of combat so making the actual task of doing it easier would be nice. It'd be really convenient if they added hotkeys, one assigned to each direction, to make facing painless. Hell, maybe they already have, I haven't actually checked.
     
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  2. exe Augur

    exe
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    How does the whole alignment system work? When I migrate cities to High Elves, will my inevitable evil alignment piss them off? Is there actually a way to get postive alignment except letting independents run away?
     
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  3. Great Deceiver Arcane

    Great Deceiver
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    Vanquished an evil player: +400

    Forged an Alliance: +100

    Forged an Alliance with a Former Enemy: +100

    Released City as a Vassal: +50

    Signed Peace Treaty: +50

    Made Peace with Independents: +25

    Showed mercy to guards: +25

    Made Independent City a Vassal: +25

    Bought Favour with Independents: +25

    Hunted down fleeing guards: -25

    Broke a Peace Treaty with Independents: -25

    Declared War on Independents of your own Race: -50

    Declared War on Independents: -50

    Attacked Hero that offered to join you: -50

    Provoked a War by Trespassing: -50

    Declared War: -100

    Broke an Alliance: -100

    Migrated City: -100

    Started War against an Ally: -100

    Razed an Occupied City: -150

    Plundered a City: -150

    Razed your own City: -200

    Vanquished a Good Player: -400

    http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Alignment
     
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  4. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    Short version: No. Pretty much none of those actions are repeatables, or even things you'd probably want to do, while all the Evil actions are. Turn to the Dark Side. We have cookies!
     
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  5. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    Try it. You can have plenty of time to test stuff. And there are tooltips which shows stuff. Only race modifier matters, and why would happy race protest against evil ruler who works for them hard?


    (Also Great Deceiver put that stuff into spoiler tags. While which actions would cause some evil point is shown on tooltips in game, at least new players would be motivated to try weird stuff.)
     
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  6. MilesBeyond Cipher

    MilesBeyond
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    Races no longer have alignment preferences, so being evil won't piss off High Elves.
     
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  7. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    There are units (and ways to make units that aren't) that are dedicated to good/evil though.
     
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  8. MilesBeyond Cipher

    MilesBeyond
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    True. Dwelling units, mostly. I think the game actually has two Hell Hound units for this purpose: One that's dedicated to evil, and one that's not (the former being ones that pop up in the wild; the latter being the ones you summon).
     
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  9. Irenaeus Self-Ejected Patron Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual The Real Fanboy

    Self-Ejected
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
    Also some summons.
     
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  10. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    With the Eternal Lords it's all about the three new specializations. Each of them gets a city enchantment that makes all the units recruited/summoned in a given city dedicated to an alignment and also gain a pretty significant bonus (neutral gets double critical chance, evil life drain and good gets mediation). Researching the spell also makes the ruler and all heroes dedicated to the alignment and later on there are more spells and upgrades to boost dedicated units. This at least gives the player something to consider, since previously going evil was a complete no brainer. Evil players can wage wars, migrate and conquer independents at will. Good players need to approach everything diplomatically (which usually translates into "slow") and migrating is a big no no. Even the basic good action - allowing fleeing independents to go - has an immediate disadvantage of depriving your parties of combat xp.
     
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  11. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    The flipside of it is that it also deprives your parties of combat injuries and casualties, allowing you to expand faster and take more resources. If the map has a lot of them, this makes for a convenient source of early-game resources and experience without resistance. Once all the guards have been run off, though, there's basically no other opportunities to gain good points, since you can only make peace with someone once and whether or not you can is entirely decided by the AI (Hint: They won't), while you can burn shit as much as you want.

    Didn't you also get good or evil points for slaying things dedicated to the opposite? Was that removed?
     
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  12. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    It's a bit grasping at straws tbf, the stacks that want to run away are mostly a cannon fodder that won't kill any of your units unless you really screw up or have something weak to their attacks and wounds usually aren't that big of a problem for anyone outside the rogue, since you're probably getting that passive stack healing skill on lvl3 anyway. And getting those first few level ups on your ruler and first hero asap is really, really important.

    I don't remember about killing, but there are certain spells that give alignment points on each cast.

    Playing Gray guard is probably most fun, since balancing between good and evil deeds is less straightforward and his spells/skills are imo the best out of the three alignment specializations.
     
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  13. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    Ah, yes, I remember those. Performing positive terraformation makes you good hella-fast. I had over 9000 alignment despite being committing constant atrocities. It made me wonder "Just how on Earth can you manage to be EVIL, anyway?".
     
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  14. MilesBeyond Cipher

    MilesBeyond
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    It's a pretty big decision (to let them escape or not) early game in multiplayer, where mitigating losses through tactical combat isn't really an option. Particularly if you're like me and play mostly Settler Only starts, where you've just got this tiny little army. Painless expansion is so important, but so is the juicy XP you'd get from running them down...

    And yeah, Grey Guard is fantastic. Like you say, trying to maintain a neutral alignment is a lot more interesting, and Cardinal Culling in particular is just such a great spell. Introduced specifically to punish unit spam.
     
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  15. e-mailio estevez Arcane

    e-mailio estevez
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    This game is great, even if I am bad at it. Bought it a few months ago and have mostly been sticking with high-elf sorcerer builds in random-generated maps. My tactic thus far has mostly been `securing mana nodes and spamming phantom warriors, archers and storm sisters.

    Hope this thread keeps seeing some activity, I'm interested to see what kind of builds the expert strategists of the Codex have in their pockets.
     
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  16. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    Heh, I think elven sorcerer (or alternatively druid) is the strongest combo, especially early game and especially if you take basic air for the crazy op seeker enchantment. Having storm sisters with no range/los penalties that can stun with every hit... yeah. And that's a low level, spammable unit.

    Game is really cool with the possible combinations you can come up with and make them work, leaves most crpgs (especially modern ones) in the dust when it comes to "party building". And some really, really varied strategies are possible. For example, mechanic wise, it has probably the best undead faction I've ever seen in a strategy game. Breaking the morale of enemy armies and then raping them with teleporting flanking "exploit despair" attacks from Lost souls that are level 0 units... yeah, who said low level units are useless.
     
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  17. Absinthe Arcane

    Absinthe
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    You also get good alignment from Creation spells: Cleanse the Land (+25). Master Creation: Condemn Killing (+50), Temperate Empire (+25), Bane of the Unnatural (+25) Similarly there is evil alignment for Destruction spells: Scorched Earth (-25), Domain of Corruption (-25). Master Destruction: Blight Empire (-25).

    I don't think Age of Wonders 3 has a very good alignment system, to be honest. The last expansion tried to make it count, though.

    Not the biggest fan. Storm Sisters get Inflict Stun on elite rank anyway so eventually the main contributions there are projectile resistance and phase. Sorcerers do benefit from not needing to fully level Storm Sisters though. That said, Warlords can level Storm Sisters easily enough between Conqueror and Global Assault (along with benefiting from the Elves' bonus resistance and superior ranged attacks) and Theocrats and Necromancers give Storm Sisters another level-up putting them 1 rank away from elite. In addition with Champion Military Racial Governance as High Elves you can give Storm Sisters +1 ranged damage and make them ignore range penalties (but they still take line of sight penalties unless you also take the Deity Martial Racial Governance). They do benefit from Static Electricity lowering enemies' shock resistance though.

    Frostling Sorcerer is more powerful because their White Witches and Tier 3 Ice Queens are both support units. A couple of White Witches can outdo Storm Sisters by boosting each other's ranged damage in the first round plus they get a better bonus from Seeker (thanks to doing 2 damage channels). And an Ice Queen with Phase, Projectile Resistance, and Inflict Stun (which works with their Ice Nova, by the way) is rather painful.
     
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  18. e-mailio estevez Arcane

    e-mailio estevez
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    I've been running Master Creation and Adept Greyguard.

    Greyguard's ability for granting casting point whenever a magical enemy is slain I've found really helpful for a sorc. Once I get phantom warriors I pretty much spam them non-stop, and the extra CP makes it so I'm not completely dry when it comes time to throw out some chain lightnings.

    I do prefer to have whatever spell school remains as a Master, just so I can enhance whatever nodes I find and ensure I have enough mana rolling in to produce apprentices, storm sisters, and phantom warriors. Air seems good for seeking, but I didn't find its other offerings particularly useful. Then again I am shit at this game.

    Theocrats seem to be the most useful hirelings I've noticed. I'm tempted to make one of my own.
     
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  19. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    Point being? You do realize doubling bonuses in this game (same with lucky, life steal and so on) are not wasted, right? That's exactly one of the reasons elves are so good.
    Yes, it's a nice spell, just like most tier vii spells are. Don't really see a point of it in this particular comparison.
    Wat. Elves get bonus ranged from the get go and synergize perfectly with all the sorcerer's lighting dmg and effects. And lighting dmg is so good because there's just not that much stuff resistant to it. And frostlings are kinda eh... in general due to the shitload of fire dmg sources that units/races/classes have with additional ways of lowering fire res availible.

    Anyway, my point was to give a strong early game combo for someone who wants to learn the game and git gud. Can't see past elven sorcerers/druid with strong early game ranged units that scale well through the entire game and ready availible summonable tanks to protect. Add seeker on top of that and you're just waltzing through everything.

    Creation and sorcerer is a pretty weird combo, but whatever floats your boat:)

    Air adept is definitely worth it for the seeker alone. Air master is not the greatest choice, although haste is pretty great.
     
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  20. Absinthe Arcane

    Absinthe
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    Some abilities stack while others don't in Age of Wonders. Lucky and Life Stealing are two mechanics that explicitly improve for multiple instances. Now there are some mechanics that don't mention it but stack anyway (backstab, iirc), but Inflict Stun doesn't. I just tested it, and you don't double up on the dice-roll, and you don't improve the resistance check for having multiple sources of Inflict Stun. It's just redundant and wasted. Don't get me wrong. It's still good to give your Storm Sisters Inflict Stun without needing to level them all the way to elite rank, but you won't benefit as much from leveling them and other classes can get Storm Sisters with Inflict Stun too.

    Just pointing out that Warlords can guarantee Elite Storm Sisters to pull this stunt off. In fact a Warlord with Deity Military Governance as High Elves can obtain Storm Sisters with Inflict Stun who ignore both range and LoS penalties.

    Maybe, but there are few things that resist both fire and frost. Usually anything that resists one is also vulnerable to the other. In addition White Witches can use Grant Frozen Flames on each other giving them another +2 frost and fire for 6 frost 6 fire total while the Storm Sister does 9 shock. They also have Inflict Chilling which lowers frost resistance by 20% whenever it triggers and they do two channels of damage while Seeker increases each damage channel by one and flanking increases each damage channel by two. Stunned enemies are automatically flanked, so a White Witch recruit with Seeker easily has an output of 9 frost 9 fire (and randomly lowers the enemy's frost resist) while a similar Storm Sister has an output of 12 shock damage. Suffice it to say that the White Witch is a heavy hitter with Inflict Stun. Not to mention how powerful the Ice Queen becomes with Inflict Stun, Projectile Resistance, and Phase.

    It's not that strange. The Sorcerer's drawback is that he can't easily replace his big units and Creation Master's drawback is that it doesn't come with a summon. Resurrect alone is valuable enough to consider the pickup and with the addition of Necromancers plus the summons from Wild Magic Adept and alignment specialization masteries, Bane of the Unnatural is much more useful than before.
     
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  21. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    They did stack and you got double tun chance but yeah, I've checked and it seems one of the new patches erased it. Pretty lame, since instead offering an alternative they just removed it, but it was crazy powerful so I get the sentiment.
    Yeah, most tier 7 spells are great, but pretty often you don't even get to see them.
    Ok, let's put things in a simple manner: if there's one thing you don't want to be weak against, it's fire. There are three fire-themed races alone, and that's without mentioning all the spells, classes, summons/neutral units that give you fire damage. Any lame fire adept with basic spammable 7 mana spell will hurt your tankiest units like they were wet paper (pun intended). Cold resist, on the other hand, is very niche and pretty useless in most scenarios. This makes frostlings rather meh and definitely not something I would recommend to beginners.

    Sorcerer is a very strong class, definitely a candidate for the strongest in the game, so yes, it will synergize and work pretty well with most races. That doesn't change the fact that just like goblins are a match for rogue or orcs for warlord, elves are a match for sorcerer. They are lighting-themed, magic inclined and ranged combat inclined. And yeah, lighting rules with sorcerer and lack of resists across the board. Suffice to say that no race resist lighting outside of halfings and their ridiculously good lucky status.
     
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  22. Absinthe Arcane

    Absinthe
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    Sound about right. AoW 3 originally had a tendency to let everything just stack.

    And when you cast a Tier VII spell it will probably be greater disjunctioned fairly quickly because no one wants you to keep those bonuses. Global Assault instantly levels all your units to Elite just by activating though. Even without that Warlords have Conqueror to make them gain exp faster and other abilities to give Storm Sisters resurgence or make them hard to kill.

    While Frostlings have 40% fire vulnerability, the Winter Witches' Bestow Frozen Flames ability gives the target +80% fire resistance, so just buffing each other will give them 40% fire resist. Enemies only get 1 turn of enjoying the fire vulnerability at best. That might be enough if they can cast Hellfire I suppose.

    Not a fan. They're overspecialized into melee and a -1 resistance ensures you will wipe your army on the first Sorcerer to cast Static Electricity and make it stick. In fact, your whole army is bad against any magic, particularly mass magic. By contrast a High Elf Warlord gets better ranged attacks with longbows and +1 resistance makes your army much tougher against spells.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2016
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  23. vota DC Augur

    vota DC
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    Orc Warlord is good only if he reaches late game with tireless Warbreed and Manticore with guard breaker while High Elf Warlord is a lot better early game and late game still has a Manticore with inflict stun.
    Orc should use Theocrat: Martyr with +5 racial hp to soak damage, Tireless Crusaders, their priest help to convert units because they can lower resistance from safe distance.
     
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  24. Renegen Arcane

    Renegen
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    Did AoW3 improve significantly from release? I need a 4X game and I didn't like what this one offered years ago.
     
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  25. adddeed Arcane Possibly Retarded

    adddeed
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    Yes it did. As it stands now, probably the best 4x wargame you can find.
     
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