Alpha Protocol

[HumanTotemPole]

Been playing this for the first time, what a game. I left it on the shelf for far too long. Absolutely delighted to get to it spoiler free.

I'll try to write up some opinions when I finish but honestly I'll have to let things settle for a bit. Right now I'm so impressed by the dialogue system and reactivity I don't think I could do anything but gush. Story's as fresh as the day Avellone finished it, also frighteningly topical in the current geopolitical context.

Can't believe this game got mediocre'd at release because of a few rough edges. As if I needed more proof professional video game critics are tasteless philistines.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Recently found out this game was originally conceived by Feargus.
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/...ris-avellone-game-designer-fallout-new-vegas/

Alpha Protocol was Obsidian Entertainment’s first original venture. How did the project come about? What was the initial germ of an idea, and how did it enter production?

It was a concept developed by our CEO, Feargus Urquhart and our tech director, Chris Jones. They proposed an espionage-style Jason Bourne RPG where you could play as a spy. SEGA wanted an RPG for their line-up and to build a franchise around, so they signed it up and put it on the roster. From that point on, it entered production. It didn’t have a Project Lead or a Lead Designer for a chunk of its early inception and production, and then at the two year mark, Chris Parker became Project Director and I volunteered to become Lead Designer on it in the absence of a Lead Designer. SEGA also participated in the design (not so much the narrative) and they also dictated the marketing and release schedule for the title as well.

:interesting:

[edit]
probably the best interview of Avellone btw, worth a read all the way through.

 

[Cpt. Dallas]

It's possible that if it *did* have official leadership from the onset it never would have been as good as it was, from a concept and story standpoint. By the time Parker and Avellone fell into PD and LD roles the project may have taken on a life of it's own.

 

[Nano]

It's possible that if it *did* have official leadership from the onset it never would have been as good as it was, from a concept and story standpoint. By the time Parker and Avellone fell into PD and LD roles the project may have taken on a life of it's own.

It did have leadership. And not just Mitsoda as the lead writer, the game actually did have a lead designer in 2006-2007, Raymond Holmes: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raygor

I'm not sure why Avellone said in interviews there wasn't a lead designer before him. Could be he did such a lousy job that Avellone doesn't even see fit to acknowledge him.

 

[Larianshill]

I simply can't believe that pretentious tard Avellone managed to produce something as good as Alpha Protocol. Maybe he had very little actual involvement in it.

 

[CoronerZg]

I simply can't believe that pretentious tard Avellone managed to produce something as good as Alpha Protocol. Maybe he had very little actual involvement in it.

Raymond?

 

[Roguey]

I simply can't believe that pretentious tard Avellone managed to produce something as good as Alpha Protocol. Maybe he had very little actual involvement in it.

Avellone was responsible for writing almost everything in the game except for Taipei (which was handled by Travis Stout), the news (also Stout), and the emails (95% Matt MacLean).

 

[agris]

josh discussing AP a few days ago (video timestamped, 49:45)



he looks absolutely thrilled to discuss it!

edit: lol, sawyer trying to cope with the game being well remembered with a "well... I'm not sure it would find much purchase with today's audience since its a Cold War story line and the audience today never lived through those times" only for the degenerate toober to immediately chime in with "oh I loved it and was born on the day the cold war ended".

just lol.

 

[Cpt. Dallas]

edit: lol, sawyer trying to cope with the game being well remembered with a "well... I'm not sure it would find much purchase with today's audience since its a Cold War story line and the audience today never lived through those times" only for the degenerate toober to immediately chime in with "oh I loved it and was born on the day the cold war ended".

'Yeah, about all those things you loved about our games that made you buy them and mod them and keep playing them for all those years, well FUCK YOU. Here's a game with the opposite of all that.'
-signed, every AA and AAA dev today, especially nu-Obsidian

 

[AndyS]

I recommended Alpha Protocol to a guy who was a gun freak and he checked out after he ran up to a guy and started blasting at point blank range only for none of his shots to land. I told him the game doesn't do action well and it's all about the choices made but he wasn't having it. It's a game with some great stuff but you do have to put up with some shit to get to it.

 

[Butter]

It would've landed better if they just stripped out the character progression elements and just made an action game. The Codex probably wouldn't have liked it, but it would've sold well enough to justify renewing the music license.

 

[agris]

It would've landed better if they just stripped out the character progression elements and just made an action game. The Codex probably wouldn't have liked it, but it would've sold well enough to justify renewing the music license.

I wonder why accuracy being a derived stat threw so many people with AP but a game like Deus Ex doesn’t have the same expectations /= reality problem

 

[Modron]

I wonder why accuracy being a derived stat threw so many people with AP but a game like Deus Ex doesn’t have the same expectations \= reality problem

Normies weren't playing Deus Ex, I remember my normie friend playing mass effect 1 and getting upset the sniper rifle was so wobbly when he invested no skill points in it.

 

[Atlantico]

I have fond memories of playing Alpha Protocol. Soyer needs some T in his veins

 

[Roguey]

It would've landed better if they just stripped out the character progression elements and just made an action game. The Codex probably wouldn't have liked it, but it would've sold well enough to justify renewing the music license.

Alpha Protocol had a progression system minus the accuracy nonsense but Sega demanded the weapon spread because "it didn't feel enough like an RPG." Obsidian's ultimately to blame though because the game they were making still played terrible, forcing Sega to micromanage the project.

I wonder why accuracy being a derived stat threw so many people with AP but a game like Deus Ex doesn’t have the same expectations /= reality problem

Tons of people also criticized Deus Ex's jank system. Invisible War abandoned it.

 

[Atlantico]

Tons of people also criticized Deus Ex's jank system. Invisible War abandoned it.

Yes, and IW was also an XBOX title ported to the PC, they were trying to make fast money because the studio was sinking —> lowest common denominator.

 

[Roguey]

Yes, and IW was also an XBOX title ported to the PC, they were trying to make fast money because the studio was sinking —> lowest common denominator.

Human Revolution didn't bring it back nor did any other game except this one title because a clueless producer forced it. The "role-playing shooter" conundrum was solved well over a decade ago.

 

[Atlantico]

Human Revolution didn't bring it back

Made by different people, decade and a half later. Things change.

 

[Roguey]

Made by different people, decade and a half later. Things change.

Invisible War was made by the same people just a few years later. They had no intention to sticking with bad gameplay to satisfy some idea of how an RPG should play. The Origin/Looking Glass crowd hated tabletop simulators.

 

[Butter]

The "role-playing shooter" conundrum was solved well over a decade ago.

You'd better clarify this, because it sounds like you're saying nu-DX was the improvement over OG, which is false.

 

[Hellraiser]

The "role-playing shooter" conundrum was solved well over a decade ago.

You'd better clarify this, because it sounds like you're saying nu-DX was the improvement over OG, which is false.

I think Roguey means specifically shooting at a target but hits being determined by dice rolls instead of twitch FPS skills/where the crosshairs are, with devs going with the latter (no misses when crosshair is on target).

 

[Butter]

I think Roguey means specifically shooting at a target but hits being determined by dice rolls instead of twitch FPS skills/where the crosshairs are, with devs going with the latter (no misses when crosshair is on target).

Original DX worked that way. If your crosshair was on the target, your shot would hit. However your crosshair started out gigantic and the time it took to shrink was a function of your weapon skill. This was "solved" as of Invisible War by removing weapon skills (actually, by removing all skills) and just letting you play a FPS. Bethesda-tier game design.

 

[deuxhero]

josh discussing AP a few days ago (video timestamped, 49:45)



he looks absolutely thrilled to discuss it!

View attachment 47066

edit: lol, sawyer trying to cope with the game being well remembered with a "well... I'm not sure it would find much purchase with today's audience since its a Cold War story line and the audience today never lived through those times" only for the degenerate toober to immediately chime in with "oh I loved it and was born on the day the cold war ended".

just lol.

As someone born after the Soviet Union ceased to exist: AP was a Cold War game?! Of the three JBs, the 2002 Bourne (yes, I know the novel is older) and 2001 Bauer were both solidly post Cold War. The first hub is post-Cold War GWoT, Russia's appearance is entirely gangs in international arms deals and the most prominent Russian character is very much a post Soviet sterotype in tastes. Unless we define Cold War to be "the modern one against ultra rich puppet masters fucking over the world for their own amusement and China", which is still ongoing and makes Sawyer's point moot, I don't see how it would be Cold War in the slightest.

 

[Hellraiser]

Original DX worked that way. If your crosshair was on the target, your shot would hit. However your crosshair started out gigantic and the time it took to shrink was a function of your weapon skill. This was "solved" as of Invisible War by removing weapon skills (actually, by removing all skills) and just letting you play a FPS.

I could swear that unless you had enough skill it would never shrink to the point where "what you aim at is what you hit", the bullets would still scatter just within a smaller area between the crosshairs. Of course depending on distance that scatter might not matter, but it was an issue when trying to headshot goons with the crossbow from afar.

 

[Butter]

Original DX worked that way. If your crosshair was on the target, your shot would hit. However your crosshair started out gigantic and the time it took to shrink was a function of your weapon skill. This was "solved" as of Invisible War by removing weapon skills (actually, by removing all skills) and just letting you play a FPS.

I could swear that unless you had enough skill it would never shrink to the point where "what you aim at is what you hit", the bullets would still scatter just within a smaller area between the crosshairs. Of course depending on distance that scatter might not matter, but it was an issue when trying to headshot goons with the crossbow from afar.

Yes, that's correct. You could compensate for a lack of skill point investment by aiming for longer, or by getting closer. You could also go all in on weapon skills + weapon mods and trounce everything in your path. Deus Ex is really good at making your skill choices feel meaningful, without resorting to asinine brick wall design (System Shock 2 weapon requirements, for example).

I don't consider it an improvement that this depth was excised like a tumour in the subsequent games.