Amiga, Commodore and creativity

[KeighnMcDeath]

I played many of the gold box first on c64. My last game on the c64 was either the first savage frontier or death knights of krynn. I never found the first buck rogers for c64 but I did for pc on a 5.25" disk similar to c64.

 

[Rincewind]

I never found the first buck rogers for c64 but I did for pc on a 5.25" disk similar to c64.

Well, you're in luck then because the good people of Nostalgia crew have converted all C64 GoldBox games to EasyFlash, except for Gateway to Savage Frontier:

All their releases can be found here:
https://csdb.dk/group/?id=146

Now only if they converted all remaining C64 SSI RPGs as well, that would be nice!

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Of that list Realms of Darkness in emulation has given c64 & AppleII users a headache. I don't think I've gotten emulation to run it yet successfully without crashing. I wanted to play the apple version to compare as art was slightly different. It is a rather unique game in style though apple had a few like it.

I never tried the Pc-98/88 or whatever version for jap computers. It was called Rogue Alliance.

 

[Luzur]

 

[Luzur]

 

[Rincewind]

Of that list Realms of Darkness in emulation has given c64 & AppleII users a headache. I don't think I've gotten emulation to run it yet successfully without crashing. I wanted to play the apple version to compare as art was slightly different. It is a rather unique game in style though apple had a few like it.

I never tried the Pc-98/88 or whatever version for jap computers. It was called Rogue Alliance.

Interesting game!

How about this recent Onslaught crack? That group has some very high standards. In fact, this is the only version of the game listed on CSDB.
Box & manual scans are also included in a separate ZIP.

Try it in VICE with only a single floppy drive (multiple drives have caused me trouble in quite a few games and especially demos).

https://csdb.dk/release/?id=199497

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Is anyone having problems with the appleII rom of ROD or is it working fine. I suppose I should test it.

Side note:
Realms Of Darkness - Mike Brooks (1984)
Discog Notes

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Workbench 1.x looked much better than 2.0

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Were monitors like the A2024 ever used to play games?
https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=863

 

[Rincewind]

Were monitors like the A2024 ever used to play games?
https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=863

Nah, very much doubt it... Seems like a monitor very much geared towards professional "productivity" use.

In Europe where I grew up (Hungary), people either bought the C= 1084(S), the C= 1701/1702, or the Philips CM8833-II (basically a 1084) for games, or if they really lacked the funds, they just hooked their Amigas up to a TV with the A520 RF modulator (optional purchase). Then some poor people used some old Russian B/W portable TV with their Amigas, but that was the exception rather than the norm...

I haven't even heard of these professional Amiga monitors until recently, I think they were aimed for the US market where Amigas were used in professional video production.

Regular computer shops definitely did not even carry them in Hungary, maybe you could special-order them, dunno (but there weren't many big-box Amigas in the country either back then).

 

[Haba]

Games on A2024 were a baaaaaad idea. It is built to be "flicker free", but the downside is that you get absolutely horrible ghosting when there are fast updates on the screen. You need an actual "color monitor" if you want colors. To actually "enjoy" the highest resolutions it could throw at you, you needed a really beefy mem chip.

So yeah, it was for a very specific niche purpose. You'd have a second screen for other use and an adapter to switch in between the two.

 

[Rincewind]

Games on A2024 were a baaaaaad idea. It is built to be "flicker free", but the downside is that you get absolutely horrible ghosting when there are fast updates on the screen. You need an actual "color monitor" if you want colors. To actually "enjoy" the highest resolutions it could throw at you, you needed a really beefy mem chip.

So yeah, it was for a very specific niche purpose. You'd have a second screen for other use and an adapter to switch in between the two.

I've heard about these monitors with long-persistence phosphors, but never saw any of them in real life. They were really meant for productivity applications, e.g. staring at mostly static spreadsheets all day.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

The 3 Gold Box games I played on my original C64 back in the day were PoR, CoK and BRCtD. All were enjoyable (in fact, PoR got me hooked on cRPGs, along with Dragon Wars at the same time, circa 1989).

Concerning the flickering monitor thing, soon after I sold my C64, I bought an Amiga A500 with its accompanying monitor. One of the first games I got for it was Dark Seed (one of my least favorite 16-bit computer gaming experiences due to the sudden death time limit which the game gave no indication it was going to pull on you). I was a bit flabbergasted to see major flickering with this game. I had literally never seen screen flickering (caused by an unusually low refresh rate?) on a CRT before, and never had this problem on the C64 connected to my old Zenith 19" TV through the RF pack. Plus, it looked slightly blurry. All in all, my first computer monitor was a disappointment since I expected everything to be sharpened to crystal clarity instead of a soft blur and flicker-free going from a TV. Oh, what a sweet summer child I was!

 

[anvi]

CRT's were becoming awesome in the later years, I was sad the world switched to LED. I remember going from a 14 or 15" monitor to a 17" maybe 18" and it felt so much better. It was also a flatter screen which felt like more screen space because the sides used to be kind of dark and fuzzy in the past when they were so rounded. And the refresh rates were getting better and better. They went from weighing a zillion tons to being a lot slimmer and more friendly. The dpi and pixel size was all so small you could never see it unless you put your face up to the screen. And the screen was glass.

My next upgrade would have been something like a 22" widescreen CRT with a fast refresh rate. It was a work of art and probably would have looked much better than the shitty LED I went with instead. All the LEDs even today have worse dpi, I can see the fuzzy pixels on letters if I sit a bit too close. There is still a blurring on moving objects that CRTs didnt have, my screen now has 160hz or something and it still doesn't look as good as good CRT did. Also the plastic screens give everything a kind of faded look... I had one LED that had a glossy screen which looked so much better, almost like a CRT, but it was a shit monitor in other ways, backlight bleed all over, dead pixels, etc.

Usually when the world switches to a different technology it's because it's so much better. But with screens it seemed like we had to take a lot of backwards steps before it could move forward. Even now 20 something years later I think that 22" widescreen badass CRT probably would look better than any LED.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

This is out BTW.

Check it out here.

 

[Rincewind]

The dpi and pixel size was all so small you could never see it unless you put your face up to the screen. And the screen was glass.

Yes, everything looked a lot smoother because the pixels were not these perfect squares like on LCDs. And at 1280x1024 on a 19" screen the DPI was really high. I miss the glass too, makes the image look a lot more vivid.

Usually when the world switches to a different technology it's because it's so much better. But with screens it seemed like we had to take a lot of backwards steps before it could move forward. Even now 20 something years later I think that 22" widescreen badass CRT probably would look better than any LED.

Define "better". It's better for manufacturers and distributors (easier and cheaper to package & ship), better for the environment (CRTs contain a lot of very toxic materials), better for most consumers for practical reasons (size, weight, etc.), better (perhaps) at most office/productivity type tasks, BUT definitely not better when it comes raw image quality for games, movies and still images. But it turns out, the majority of people just don't care. Same thing happened with plasma; most people just want to watch daytime TV and sports channels in a brightly lit room — yeah, a LED TV is kinda better for that, or "good enough". And sadly manufacturing CRTs is only cost efficient when done in huge quantities (hundreds of millions), so we won't see a resurgence like with "audiophile" equipment (which can be expensive, but low production run CRTs would cost as much as a very expensive mansion...)
So, blame humanity

 

[Ladonna]

people either bought the C= 1084(S), the C= 1701/1702, or the Philips CM8833-II (basically a 1084) for games,

I have a 1801 for the C64 and a 1080 for the Amiga. Both still running perfectly (for now).

 

[Rincewind]

people either bought the C= 1084(S), the C= 1701/1702, or the Philips CM8833-II (basically a 1084) for games,

I have a 1801 for the C64 and a 1080 for the Amiga. Both still running perfectly (for now).

Yeah I guess depends very much on the year & country too. Just checked out some computer magazines I still have from 1993 ("Commodore World" is the translated title), and C= 1802, 1084S, 1085S and the expensive C= 1942 multisync monitor were on sale, plus the Philips CM8833-II.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I think I had the 1084 monitor for my Amiga A500. I was more impressed with the Tandy Radio Shack VGA monitor I got with my Tandy 286 about 5 years later but of course it was VGA-capable , so... no wonder.

Edited: The best CRT I ever owned was a Mitsubishi 20" Diamondtron monitor but the quality control on that lot was absolute shit. I went through 2 of them in 2 years.

 

[Ladonna]

This is out BTW.

Check it out here.

Anyone know the setup required for this? I imagine you need at least an easyflash for cart image.

 

[Rincewind]

Anyone know the setup required for this? I imagine you need at least an easyflash for cart image.

The answer is obvious from the CSDB release page, check the downloads There's lots of YouTube reviews too...

EDIT: Just tried it for 5 mins in VICE, my impressions:

• You really need to play it in 2MHz C128 mode, otherwise it's just too slow and laggy on a 1MHz C64 when there are multiple enemies around you
• VICE 1351 mouse emulation is not quite perfect, the C64 mouse acceleration is applied on top the OS level mouse acceleration (we know we had this problem in DOSBox, it annoys the hell out of me)
• It's really well done, but I prefer the fan-made Amiga AGA version
• I DO NOT approve of the automap! (neither in the AGA version, to be fair, never used it)
• I think some notes are wrong in the intro music (but it's cool overall)
• The included bestiary is super cool
• Overall, a massive and hugely prestigious effort, and they nailed the original game perfectly!

 

[soulburner]

CRT's were becoming awesome in the later years, I was sad the world switched to LED. I remember going from a 14 or 15" monitor to a 17" maybe 18" and it felt so much better. It was also a flatter screen which felt like more screen space because the sides used to be kind of dark and fuzzy in the past when they were so rounded. And the refresh rates were getting better and better. They went from weighing a zillion tons to being a lot slimmer and more friendly. The dpi and pixel size was all so small you could never see it unless you put your face up to the screen. And the screen was glass.

My next upgrade would have been something like a 22" widescreen CRT with a fast refresh rate. It was a work of art and probably would have looked much better than the shitty LED I went with instead. All the LEDs even today have worse dpi, I can see the fuzzy pixels on letters if I sit a bit too close. There is still a blurring on moving objects that CRTs didnt have, my screen now has 160hz or something and it still doesn't look as good as good CRT did. Also the plastic screens give everything a kind of faded look... I had one LED that had a glossy screen which looked so much better, almost like a CRT, but it was a shit monitor in other ways, backlight bleed all over, dead pixels, etc.

Usually when the world switches to a different technology it's because it's so much better. But with screens it seemed like we had to take a lot of backwards steps before it could move forward. Even now 20 something years later I think that 22" widescreen badass CRT probably would look better than any LED.

I remember I was waiting for these: SED and FED. A matrix of tiny cathode ray tubes. A display with all the benefits of both CRT and LCD combined. Never became a reality.

 

[Rincewind]

CRT's were becoming awesome in the later years, I was sad the world switched to LED. I remember going from a 14 or 15" monitor to a 17" maybe 18" and it felt so much better. It was also a flatter screen which felt like more screen space because the sides used to be kind of dark and fuzzy in the past when they were so rounded. And the refresh rates were getting better and better. They went from weighing a zillion tons to being a lot slimmer and more friendly. The dpi and pixel size was all so small you could never see it unless you put your face up to the screen. And the screen was glass.

My next upgrade would have been something like a 22" widescreen CRT with a fast refresh rate. It was a work of art and probably would have looked much better than the shitty LED I went with instead. All the LEDs even today have worse dpi, I can see the fuzzy pixels on letters if I sit a bit too close. There is still a blurring on moving objects that CRTs didnt have, my screen now has 160hz or something and it still doesn't look as good as good CRT did. Also the plastic screens give everything a kind of faded look... I had one LED that had a glossy screen which looked so much better, almost like a CRT, but it was a shit monitor in other ways, backlight bleed all over, dead pixels, etc.

Usually when the world switches to a different technology it's because it's so much better. But with screens it seemed like we had to take a lot of backwards steps before it could move forward. Even now 20 something years later I think that 22" widescreen badass CRT probably would look better than any LED.

I remember I was waiting for these: SED and FED. A matrix of tiny cathode ray tubes. A display with all the benefits of both CRT and LCD combined. Never became a reality.

Oh man, these would've been so great! But like always, evolution and progress is not about the survival of the "best" necessarily.

 

[Luzur]

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Dat Duck Hunt-conversion.

Amazing how close they got to it.