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Game News Animation reel from cancelled Aliens: Crucible RPG discovered on Vimeo

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
I've talked about this game before...

There is a lot of could-ofs, should-ofs, and all that.

The problem with making successful horror games with the Aliens franchise is that the Aliens have been revealed... a lot. There is no mystery with them anymore. After 4 movies, countless comics and novels, countless video games - where the Alien and Alien variants have been killed multiple times, you have to tread new ground if you want to do something original. The horror with the Aliens no longer lies in the unknown, so we were going for the environment.

For example, the second or third time you watch Alien, it is no longer scary. My second playthrough of Amnesia was easy and scare-free.

NOT COUNTING JUMP SCARES! Jump scares are not true horror, though they can be used to effectively alter the tension temporarily.

Josh did have some ideas though on how to add horror and tension, and we had several scenarios into the game. Most of us were or had played SS2, Amnesia, and Call of Cthulu, but horror was not the goal of the game, survival was.

This was a game of limited resources and perma-death. If a party member got face-hugged, your choices were to mercy kill them, put them in a sleeper and wake them sparingly if you need them, or let them pop - but the bottom line was that once they got impregnated they had an expiration date.

As for the Alien variations, there are things that are simply expected by publishers and the fan base. The xenomporph variations also have a history in the aliens universe anyway. The first thing Josh and the concept artists did was to create the lifeforms the xenos would impregnate first. We also used some insect themes for the various xeno roles, from drones and scouts, to soldiers and queens. As covered in countless comics, novels, and films, the xenos take traits from their host, the idea being it would better enable them to survive in a dangerous habitat. One of the big mysteries Josh and the writers were exploring was what the caldera and how were the engineers (space jockeys) doing with the xenos.

The goal was not to kill all the bugs, but to simply escape from the caldera where you were trapped. Don't get me wrong, there was still a lot of killing of both xenos and humans in the game. Combat was real time - but we had a companion wheel to context system so that you could issue commands to your squadmates. For example, you could highlight a door with your reticule, and then based on what your squard could do, it would show you your options, like weld door, open door, or if you had a bomb, plant bomb on door.

As far as tech goes, we were using an earlier version of Onyx - which would later be used to create DS3. Our tech was stable, but we had pipeline issues to resolve but by milestone 25 or so were in pretty good shape.

Anyway, it is what it is at this point.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I hope you don't mind if I link to that post in the new newspost, Anthony.
 

bonescraper

Guest
As for the Alien variations, there are things that are simply expected by publishers and the fan base. The xenomporph variations also have a history in the aliens universe anyway. The first thing Josh and the concept artists did was to create the lifeforms the xenos would impregnate first. We also used some insect themes for the various xeno roles, from drones and scouts, to soldiers and queens. As covered in countless comics, novels, and films, the xenos take traits from their host [...]
Again, most of the comics are shit and hardly consistent with the canon. If you look at xeno variations in the movies, you'll see they don't change their appearance drastically. Their behavior might be slightly different, but not their general external appearance. It's like people are constantly trying to outdo Geiger and Scott by adding fins, horns and other retarded crap to one of the scariest monsters in movie history, thinking they can do better.

Oh, and fans actually hate this kind of crap. Many people hate the way aliens look in the AvP movies. Hell, some even think Cameron went too far already.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
As for the Alien variations, there are things that are simply expected by publishers and the fan base. The xenomporph variations also have a history in the aliens universe anyway. The first thing Josh and the concept artists did was to create the lifeforms the xenos would impregnate first. We also used some insect themes for the various xeno roles, from drones and scouts, to soldiers and queens. As covered in countless comics, novels, and films, the xenos take traits from their host [...]
Again, most of the comics are shit and hardly consistent with the canon. If you look at xeno variations in the movies, you'll see they don't change their appearance drastically. Their behavior might be slightly different, but not their general external appearance. It's like people are constantly trying to outdo Geiger and Scott by adding fins, horns and other retarded crap to one of the scariest monsters in movie history, thinking they can do better.

Oh, and fans actually hate this kind of crap. Many people hate the way aliens look in the AvP movies. Hell, some even think Cameron went too far already.


I'm not sure who speaks for the fans...

Is it the purists on forums, or is it the people buying all the comics and novels?
 

bonescraper

Guest
I'm not sure who speaks for the fans...

Is it the purists on forums, or is it the people buying all the comics and novels?
They're one and the same? Hell, i used to own a big pile of Alien/Predator related comics. That doesn't mean they're good. It's just fanboy/collector mentality.

Anyway, that game looks fucking bad. It's just another alien shooter, but with bad shooting mechanics. Even Alpha Protocol looks more engaging than that. And looks like you guys just wanted to play this safe, making another Cameron-esque action aliens product, utilizing the worst ideas found in the comics and other media. Is this the same Obsidian that made KotOR 2?
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm not sure who speaks for the fans...

Is it the purists on forums, or is it the people buying all the comics and novels?
They're one and the same? Hell, i used to own a big pile of Alien/Predator related comics. That doesn't mean they're good. It's just fanboy/collector mentality.

Anyway, that game looks fucking bad. It's just another alien shooter, but with bad shooting mechanics. Even Alpha Protocol looks more engaging than that. And looks like you guys just wanted to play this safe, making another Cameron-esque action aliens product, utilizing the worst ideas found in the comics and other media. Is this the same Obsidian that made KotOR 2?

Problem: KOTOR2 "looks fucking bad" also. Watch some gameplay videos of it with combat. It'll look like shit to you.

 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
I'm not sure who speaks for the fans...

Is it the purists on forums, or is it the people buying all the comics and novels?
They're one and the same? Hell, i used to own a big pile of Alien/Predator related comics. That doesn't mean they're good. It's just fanboy/collector mentality.

Anyway, that game looks fucking bad. It's just another alien shooter, but with bad shooting mechanics. Even Alpha Protocol looks more engaging than that. And looks like you guys just wanted to play this safe, making another Cameron-esque action aliens product, utilizing the worst ideas found in the comics and other media. Is this the same Obsidian that made KotOR 2?

Appreciate the input!

EDIT: That was more sarcastic then I intended. My not so subtle point was that the game no longer exists, this footage is 4 or 5 years old, the game wasnt even in Alpha yet... aaaaaaand whocares.
 

Naked Ninja

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
1,664
Location
South Africa
I've talked about this game before...

There is a lot of could-ofs, should-ofs, and all that.

The problem with making successful horror games with the Aliens franchise is that the Aliens have been revealed... a lot. There is no mystery with them anymore. After 4 movies, countless comics and novels, countless video games - where the Alien and Alien variants have been killed multiple times, you have to tread new ground if you want to do something original. The horror with the Aliens no longer lies in the unknown, so we were going for the environment.

For example, the second or third time you watch Alien, it is no longer scary. My second playthrough of Amnesia was easy and scare-free.

NOT COUNTING JUMP SCARES! Jump scares are not true horror, though they can be used to effectively alter the tension temporarily.

Josh did have some ideas though on how to add horror and tension, and we had several scenarios into the game. Most of us were or had played SS2, Amnesia, and Call of Cthulu, but horror was not the goal of the game, survival was.

This was a game of limited resources and perma-death. If a party member got face-hugged, your choices were to mercy kill them, put them in a sleeper and wake them sparingly if you need them, or let them pop - but the bottom line was that once they got impregnated they had an expiration date.

As for the Alien variations, there are things that are simply expected by publishers and the fan base. The xenomporph variations also have a history in the aliens universe anyway. The first thing Josh and the concept artists did was to create the lifeforms the xenos would impregnate first. We also used some insect themes for the various xeno roles, from drones and scouts, to soldiers and queens. As covered in countless comics, novels, and films, the xenos take traits from their host, the idea being it would better enable them to survive in a dangerous habitat. One of the big mysteries Josh and the writers were exploring was what the caldera and how were the engineers (space jockeys) doing with the xenos.

The goal was not to kill all the bugs, but to simply escape from the caldera where you were trapped. Don't get me wrong, there was still a lot of killing of both xenos and humans in the game. Combat was real time - but we had a companion wheel to context system so that you could issue commands to your squadmates. For example, you could highlight a door with your reticule, and then based on what your squard could do, it would show you your options, like weld door, open door, or if you had a bomb, plant bomb on door.

As far as tech goes, we were using an earlier version of Onyx - which would later be used to create DS3. Our tech was stable, but we had pipeline issues to resolve but by milestone 25 or so were in pretty good shape.

Anyway, it is what it is at this point.

Sounds really cool. And that gameplay footage looked great.

Any chance of the project being resurrected at this point?
 

bonescraper

Guest
Infinibro, you're comparing a RTWP RPG with a shooter...
This. I actually loved how lightsaber duels looked in KotOR. Yes, there were guns, but i never bothered with them. And i never had to.

You should be comparing Aliens with Alpha Protocol instead Infinitron :D
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Infinibro, you're comparing a RTWP RPG with a shooter...
This. I actually loved how lightsaber duels looked in KotOR. Yes, there were guns, but i never bothered with them. And i never had to.

You should be comparing Aliens with Alpha Protocol instead Infinitron :D

It's a console RPG of the same general type. Don't tell me you looked at that KOTOR2 video and thought "this game is monocled" :obviously:

Third person console RPGs tend to look kind of lame if you're spectating. They play better than they look.

But anyway, like Anthony said, this argument is dumb since the game was unfinished.
 

Zeus

Cipher
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Messages
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The problem with making successful horror games with the Aliens franchise is that the Aliens have been revealed... a lot. There is no mystery with them anymore.

I don't get this argument. There's no mystery to zombies, either. And yet zombie horror movies and games are a success.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I don't get this argument. There's no mystery to zombies, either. And yet zombie horror movies and games are a success.

...and they also focus on survival more than horror. Way to prove the man's argument.
 

bonescraper

Guest
Jesus. I mentioned KotOR 2 because it was breaking Star Wars clichés. Not because it looks amazing :roll:
 

IDtenT

Menace to sobriety!
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Divinity: Original Sin
I'd be very interested if a developer could pull off a game where it's just you, a group of survivors whose morale you have to monitor, and a single alien picking you off one by one. Or has something like that been produced? I can't say I follow this franchise closely in video game form, for fairly obvious reasons.
Could work wonders as a multi-player game. Doesn't need to be this setting, as any thriller/mystery/horror will do. Have team members being killed off one by one as they make mistakes while wading their way through the game.
 

Zeus

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I don't get this argument. There's no mystery to zombies, either. And yet zombie horror movies and games are a success.

...and they also focus on survival more than horror. Way to prove the man's argument.

The original Night of the Living Dead is packed with endless scenes of people barricading themselves inside a house. Survival has been there since the beginning of the modern zombie film. It's no more a part of them now than it was back then.
 

LundB

Mistakes were made.
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People knew what sharks looked like back in '75, but Jaws still worked. Not purely a horror film, but I think the comparison still stands.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Jesus. I mentioned KotOR 2 because it was breaking Star Wars clichés. Not because it looks amazing :roll:

But you're comparing KOTOR2 to a game that you know about only from how its pre-alpha version looked like.

The original Night of the Living Dead is packed with endless scenes of people barricading themselves inside a house. Survival has been there since the beginning of the modern zombie film. It's no more a part of them now than it was back then.
I'm talking about games, not movies.
 

Zeus

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People knew what sharks looked like back in '75, but Jaws still worked. Not purely a horror film, but I think the comparison still stands.

Exactly. Fear of the unknown is a vital part of horror. But we know how humans work, that doesn't mean Silence of the Lambs didn't have effective atmosphere and tension.

This attitude is just so self-defeating.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Horror games have a different dynamic than horror movies, since the fact that the player is in control removes that feeling of paralyzed helplessness you get from being a passive viewer of a movie.

Many classic horror games gave you clumsy controls on purpose to emulate that feeling. But I thought we didn't like CINEMATIC games on the Codex.
 

Zeus

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The original Night of the Living Dead is packed with endless scenes of people barricading themselves inside a house. Survival has been there since the beginning of the modern zombie film. It's no more a part of them now than it was back then.
I'm talking about games, not movies.

But he's not. He said the Aliens movies weren't scary the third time around. I felt the need to point out that thirty years after the original Night of the Living Dead, people still manage to make effective zombie flicks, long after the mystery has gone.

And as for Resident Evil being about "survival," that's just a silly word pulled from the air by Capcom's Japanese PR department.

Except for Interactive Fiction and graphic adventures, it's safe to say all horror games involve not letting monsters get close enough to touch you. Which makes them no different than all the horror movies out there about people trying to keep zombies/monsters/serial killers from killing them. Survival and horror go hand in hand.
 

Zeus

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Horror games have a different dynamic than horror movies, since the fact that the player is in control removes that feeling of paralyzed helplessness you get from being a passive viewer of a movie.

Many classic horror games gave you clumsy controls on purpose to emulate that feeling. But I thought we didn't like CINEMATIC games on the Codex.

What does this have to do with a horror game based specifically on the Aliens franchise not working?
 

LundB

Mistakes were made.
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Horror games have a different dynamic than horror movies, since the fact that the player is in control removes that feeling of paralyzed helplessness you get from being a passive viewer of a movie.

Many classic horror games gave you clumsy controls on purpose to emulate that feeling. But I thought we didn't like CINEMATIC games on the Codex.

True or not, that has nothing to do with the claim that 'aliens have been revealed so they can't be good monsters for a horror game'.

Even ignoring that, I'd argue that the aliens are LESS crippled as a monster in game format than in film. In a movie, you might think 'ehhh, I've seen these fuckers gunned down by the thousands, protag's just a pussy if they can't deal w/ it', while in a game it's more along the lines of 'oh fuck this thing has so many ways to kill me, it's dark, and I can only hope I see it before it sees me'. It all comes down to what situation the game puts you in, and how it presents the alien.

Meaning, at the very least not like this:
i212wUcwcU0eE.gif
 

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