Anime Another Gamasutra Article! "We Don’t Need the Haters"

[octavius]

The number of video game protagonists shoud be about the same as the number of video game developers.

This is false since some games have sequels.

My point was that if women want to have their female protagonists they should take a more active role and make more video games themselves.

 

[dnf]

Gender sensitive whores are the new graphics whores(or a subsection of).

 

[DragoFireheart]

...

Ironically that is what you did whole sale as he does make some legitimate points and others is naive or out of touch with reality. Gender neutral doesn't translate to gender friendly and I fail to see that as mainly tacked on to cater any female audience that might be interested in purchasing games. It is like casualizing games in order to have a larger market that might purchase your games and this is a business so you don't want to turn off any chance that a female might pick it up as well.

Which is exactly what the game industry is doing.

Honestly I see the feminists reaction going into the extremes because of the vocal people that does the same exact crap giving a shit about this like both the post and the author. Honestly I don't see why it matters as in the end it isn't ideology that dictates what gets made it is the $$$$$. Unless females are going to cough more dough and actually play the games like Remember me or Tomb Raider w/e, this will continue.

What makes you think I'm extreme right?

 

[octavius]

Gender sensitive whores are the new graphics whores(or a subsection of).

My dick is very gender sensitive.

 

[Gurkog]

If you want female leads in games, make games with female leads. This is not brain surgery. FF6 had a female lead and was the only one besides 13 to do so... 6 was the best in the series, but 13 was shit. I think the trend in the industry is to pump out shit under the guise of "progressiveness" instead trying to put in the effort to make good games. Mirror's Edge 2 will probably suffer the same fate, because of EA trying to improve its image.

The angry reactionaries are usually responding to changes in franchises they already experience... so making new franchises would help side-step the dumb fucks. This is not brain surgery.

 

[DragoFireheart]

If you want female leads in games, make games with female leads. This is not brain surgery. FF6 had a female lead and was the only one besides 13 to do so... 6 was the best in the series, but 13 was shit. I think the trend in the industry is to pump out shit under the guise of "progressiveness" instead trying to put in the effort to make good games. Mirror's Edge 2 will probably suffer the same fate, because of EA trying to improve its image.

The angry reactionaries are usually responding to changes in franchises they already experience... so making new franchises would help side-step the dumb fucks. This is not brain surgery.

Some of my favorite games have female leads:

FF6
Perfect Dark (not that xbox shit, the N64 one)
Metroid.

 

[deuxhero]

Ernest Adams

So aside from that nutcase employed by yellow journalism site that shall not be named, are there ANY women actually advocating this, or is it just men who want pussy hits (and thus money)?

 

[Xor]

I don't get why this is even an issue. If developers and publishers want to appeal to the social justice market, then make games for that market. If they don't sell well, then publishers can either abandon that niche or try to force it down our throats and we'll see if that works.

Spoiler

It won't.

 

[Tehdagah]

I find this disagreeable because quality of games is highly subjective and surprisingly the consumers in general has low standards even on the codex. This position looks at things like it is black and white just like the author as there is evidence that people does give a big shit (pardon) of females in games. If this wasn't the case there wouldn't be so much attention to Anita Sarkeesian and people being schmucks giving her what she wants, publicity and money from other schmucks. (...)

"quality of games is higly subjective"

"consumers in general has low standards"

I can't compute this, sorry.

 

[deuxhero]

Oh, I've pointed it out before, but I think it's worth repeating

The games with female leads that sell well are the ones that make no pretense of being aimed at women (not necessarily "sexy", but "cute" as well), while the long running series with high parity of male/female in the fanbase rarely have female leads.

Hell, look at Tales, a series that apparently has a 40% female fanbase (don't ask me why. From the Tales of games I've played I'm not sure how it has a fanbase period.). Tales took 15 years and 14 13 main games for a game with a game with both male AND female main protagonists and after 18 years Namco just announced the first Tales with an actual female lead, and even then it's only a mobile spinoff.

MOST WOMEN WHO CARE ABOUT VIDEO GAMES DO NOT CARE ABOUT FEMALE LEADS

 

[Machocruz]

That every female lead in games is mandatory pretty with a perfect figure (even if they're 60 years old. lolbioware) is something I find creatively limited and immature, but then I don't feel the need to have games artistically or socially validated either like some of these crybabies. Low culture gonna low culture. These frogs need to recognize the nature of the scorpion.

 

[Tehdagah]

(...)
Hell, look at Tales, a series that apparently has a 40% female fanbase (don't ask me why. From the Tales of games I've played I'm not sure how it has a fanbase period.).

'Husbandos', I guess.

 

[Helly]

Why has this topic become such a big deal anyway ?
Most of the gaming girls I know actually like having a cool and sexy male lead than a female one (Tales of is a pretty good example indeed)
Fucking white knights

 

[DefJam101]

1. More opportunities to play female protagonists in AAA titles.
   
   
2. More female characters—especially protagonists—who are not hypersexualized and whose clothing is appropriate for their activity.
   
   
3. More female characters portrayed as strong and competent people rather than victims, trophies, or sex objects.

Perfectly reasonable list. I agree wholeheartedly.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where said list always comes packaged with a dumb inflammatory article

 

[DragoFireheart]

1. More opportunities to play female protagonists in AAA titles.
   
   
2. More female characters—especially protagonists—who are not hypersexualized and whose clothing is appropriate for their activity.
   
   
3. More female characters portrayed as strong and competent people rather than victims, trophies, or sex objects.

Perfectly reasonable list. I agree wholeheartedly.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where said list always comes packaged with a dumb inflammatory article

...

These things have already been done before.

 

[deuxhero]

(...)
Hell, look at Tales, a series that apparently has a 40% female fanbase (don't ask me why. From the Tales of games I've played I'm not sure how it has a fanbase period.).

'Husbandos', I guess.

Hazubando (ハズバンド）.

I THINK it's the heavy level of character interaction (as such is part of other serieses I know have high ratios of female fans).

 

[DefJam101]

1. More opportunities to play female protagonists in AAA titles.
   
   
2. More female characters—especially protagonists—who are not hypersexualized and whose clothing is appropriate for their activity.
   
   
3. More female characters portrayed as strong and competent people rather than victims, trophies, or sex objects.

Perfectly reasonable list. I agree wholeheartedly.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where said list always comes packaged with a dumb inflammatory article

...

These things have already been done before.

Do you understand what the word 'more' means

 

[DragoFireheart]

Do you understand what the word 'more' means

You can not sell what is not made.

AKA: someone must make these games before they can be sold. What this article seems to imply is that developers MUST make female lead characters. Again, forcing someone to run a business to this extent is just a form of Communism. If people want more, then you need more:

- Developers who want to make female leads.
- Consumers who want female leads.
- Quality gameplay.

As it stands now, the industry is lacking number three.

Also, define "more". What goal is being reached? Do you simply desire what you know not? 20%? 30%? 50%? 90%?

 

[Dr Tomo]

Which is exactly what the game industry is doing.

But the topic is gender not quality of games which I feel you are mixing the two together as my argument is gender neutral doesn't translate to gender friendly.

What makes you think I'm extreme right?

Well writing off the whole article is one reason as he made a few points that are actually agreeable, some of the points you make is the same thing that people who are misogynistic (possibly) make or ignors the issue. Are you misogynistic? I don't think so as going off one thread or post is retarded and you are bringing quality of games into a gender issue. I think your anger should be directed to the publishers/studios that don't understand the concept of Q&A or blatantly tries to milk customers/treat their like shit, schmucks like Tehdagah. I think the author is out of touch with reality as this industry is dictated by economics. Think author suffers the same thing as Anita which is a disconnect on feasibility as a dev makes games out of passion that is grounded in reality.

"quality of games is higly subjective"

"consumers in general has low standards"

I can't compute this, sorry.

Well thinking is difficult for most people these days so I understand. Hence why I wonder why dragonfire brofisted you when you are exactly the problem he keeps bringing up in the quality of games regarding a gender issue thread.

AKA: someone must make these games before they can be sold. What this article seems to imply is that developers MUST make female lead characters. Again, forcing someone to run a business to this extent is just a form of Communism. If people want more, then you need more:

Can you cite this please? Read through the whole article and I understood it he is pointing out the lack of females and adding that the industry is misogynistic (which is a valid point).

 

[DragoFireheart]

Well writing off the whole article is one reason as he made a few points that are actually agreeable, some of the points you make is the same thing that people who are misogynistic (possibly) make or ignors the issue. Are you misogynistic? I don't think so as going off one thread or post is retarded and you are bringing quality of games into a gender issue. I think your anger should be directed to the publishers/studios that don't understand the concept of Q&A or blatantly tries to milk customers/treat their like shit, schmucks like Tehdagah. I think the author is out of touch with reality as this industry is dictated by economics. Think author suffers the same thing as Anita which is a disconnect on feasibility as a dev makes games out of passion that is grounded in reality.

Just because you think he makes a couple agreeable points doesn't make the article worthwhile.

He also makes some strawmans and false claims. And as you said, he's out of touch with reality.

 

[deuxhero]

adding that the industry is misogynistic (which is a valid point).

No it isn't

As one of very few women in senior creative positions in the video game industry, Hennig is often asked about sexism and challenges she has faced. But she says it's not an issue. "Usually it has been men who gave me the opportunities I have had. I think this is a young enough and progressive enough industry that there just isn't any of that."

 

[The Glitterdust Golem]

I miss 'Entitled' being the hot 'n' fresh buzzword to shit all over the gaming mass. 'Misogynist' just doesn't have the same ring.

 

[Dr Tomo]

Well writing off the whole article is one reason as he made a few points that are actually agreeable, some of the points you make is the same thing that people who are misogynistic (possibly) make or ignors the issue. Are you misogynistic? I don't think so as going off one thread or post is retarded and you are bringing quality of games into a gender issue. I think your anger should be directed to the publishers/studios that don't understand the concept of Q&A or blatantly tries to milk customers/treat their like shit, schmucks like Tehdagah. I think the author is out of touch with reality as this industry is dictated by economics. Think author suffers the same thing as Anita which is a disconnect on feasibility as a dev makes games out of passion that is grounded in reality.

Just because you think he makes a couple agreeable points doesn't make the article worthwhile.

He also makes some strawmans and false claims. And as you said, he's out of touch with reality.

But the point I am trying to make is most of your argument is the same and I don't see the logical connection between them. Also, of course I think he is out of touch with reality just like Anita and others since they really down play the financials as making games is expensive.

adding that the industry is misogynistic (which is a valid point).

No it isn't

As one of very few women in senior creative positions in the video game industry, Hennig is often asked about sexism and challenges she has faced. But she says it's not an issue. "Usually it has been men who gave me the opportunities I have had. I think this is a young enough and progressive enough industry that there just isn't any of that."

You are doing the same thing as Dragonfire by assuming that I am claiming that it is at the levels that Anita portrays it. Every industry has misogyny and the spectrum is wide and I like to look at things in the historical perspective which is gray, not black and white. Life is not simple i.e black and white, but lots of gray because of the many variables and Dragonfire is kind of fashioning himself as Anita by disregarding all valid points and adding weird points that doesn't pertain to the issue.

 

[DragoFireheart]

But the point I am trying to make is most of your argument is the same and I don't see the logical connection between them.

...what?

 

[deuxhero]

You are doing the same thing as Dragonfire by assuming that I am claiming that it is at the levels that Anita portrays it. Every industry has misogyny and the spectrum is wide and I like to look at things in the historical perspective which is gray, not black and white. Life is not simple i.e black and white, but lots of gray because of the many variables and Dragonfire is kind of fashioning himself as Anita by disregarding all valid points and adding weird points that doesn't pertain to the issue.

If "every" industry had it, that would mean it isn't related to industry at all and it's just an overall societal/cultural problem (thus meaning the SJW crowd STILL wrong because they focus on the wrong area entirely).