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Apparently PC gaming is now more profitable than console gaming

TheGreatOne

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http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/read/pc-games-have-surpassed-console-games-globally/033849
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...-PC-Has-Surpassed-Console-in-Terms-of-Revenue
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev...how-long-should-console-makers-keep-fighting/
The PC games market has now surpassed the console gaming sector in terms of revenues, an analyst has claimed.

Although it's hard to tell how reliable and accurate the original source is, that's an interesting headline nonetheless.

It seems like there's a whole new breed of PC gamers out there. This culture of buying games digitally dirt cheap in bundles (and never playing half of them) and mostly playing alternative (*) games is very alien to me. I use "alternative" as an umbrella term to describe the wide spectrum of faggotry that consists of early access(/greenlight/eternally stuck in open beta), F2P, sandbox games with no purpose and "art" games with no gameplay. The kind of shit that no one has ever heard of (for a reason) that pretentious pseudo intellectual cunt Errant Signal likes to make entire videos about (or worse yet, use as an example in comparisons, as if this shit was some kind of established name in gaming you can freely refer to whenever analyzing mechanics and comparing it to other games, the same way you do to legit games). Or alternatively the kind of shit that every popular "Youtube gaming celebrity" has to play because it's the flavor of the week. On that note: PewDiePie is the most subscribed channel on Youtube and he's mainly a PC gamer. So even if Facebook games have been counted into those numbers, you still can't ignore the huge market segment that is casual PC gamers. PewDiePie's popularity alone makes it apparent.
http://www.joystiq.com/2014/01/15/steam-has-75-million-active-users-valve-announces-at-dev-days/
(*)=I think the term "independent" should be reserved for developers like Cleve. "Alternative" is a more apt term to describe all the garbage "indy games" that these hipster game designers are churning out these days

What are these numerous modern PC gamers so proud about? You can constantly see their type spewing PC master race rhetoric on the internet. Like I'm supposed to be impressed that they can play the latest popamole AAA games with a slightly faster frame rate and better graphics? Oh and it's actually 11.5% cheaper than the console version... as long as you don't mind DRM, the fact that it's DL only (meaning that as soon as it becomes unprofitable for the service provider to host their servers, you can't play it anymore unless you keep the game installed on your hard drive for the rest of your life) and the fact you can't sell your game or show it to a friend/play it on another computer.
If you're not making any use of the hardware's strengths in game design, why bother touting it as some kind of example of superiority when it has nothing to do with the greatness of the platform? Like I've said before (because I'm super important and people care about my opinions), it's the design that matters, platform is irrelevant (unless you actually take it into account in design). Modern popamole AAA trash is still trash when you play it on a PC.

I guess I ought to get to my point by now: if PC gaming is so damn profitable these days, why aren't we getting any good big budget PC games like we used to get before 2002/2004? Now the most obvious answer to that question is a very predictable one when asking it here on Codex. But let's pretend for a moment that playing turn based CRPGs does not in fact give you genetic immunity against the airborne disease that was released to the earth's atmosphere during 9/11 attacks that decreased the cognitive capacity of humans by 25%. Let's say that the reason behind decline was mostly caused by profitability issues (X) rather than Western civilization's inevitable decline to planet of the apes. Now that there's a much larger install base and PC gaming has proven to be much more profitable than before, shouldn't that make publishers more willing to fund the type of "big budget PC games" we got before the Xbox launched and became successful?

(X)=As in Looking Glass, Origin, SSI, Sir Tech and other similar developers would've stayed in business if they would've had more paying customers, as opposed to developers who would've dumbed down their games either way in order to appeal to a broader audience in hopes of making even bigger profits.
 

BlackAdderBG

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Even the shittiest MMOs or MOBAs out there are 10 times more mechanically complex and gameplay oriented than the console shit like Uncharted and the The Last of Us.
 
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95% of it is just F2P, MOBA, indie, and Morgoth faggotry. I refuse to conflate these abominations with PC gaming.
 

Mortmal

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90% of it is just F2P, MOBA and indie faggotry. I refuse to conflate these abominations with PC gaming.

You are far too optimistic , if at least it was moba, they are tolerable at least, but facebook stuff like candycrush bring even more money. Pc gaming at its finest too.
 

DalekFlay

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While a lot of this is the bullshit mentioned above, enough developers and publishers have bragged about Steam sales numbers lately to make me think that's a significant part of this.
 

Haba

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I guess I ought to get to my point by now: if PC gaming is so damn profitable these days, why aren't we getting any good big budget PC games like we used to get before 2002/2004? [--] Now that there's a much larger install base and PC gaming has proven to be much more profitable than before, shouldn't that make publishers more willing to fund the type of "big budget PC games" we got before the Xbox launched and became successful?

Because big budget games are not profitable. And a hundred million dollar risk stings even in a billion dollar biz.

We still are getting equally "big budget" games as we did in the early 2000's, yet you and your kin label them as indie or "alternative" based on production values alone.
 
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TheGreatOne

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We still are getting equally "big budget" games as we did in the early 2000's, yet you and your kin label them as indie or "alternative" based on production values alone.
Show me a PC exclusive game (preferably one that got a physical retail release) from 2011-2014 that rivals System Shock 2, Grim Fandango/Curse of Monkey Island/Broken Sword/The Longest Journey, Jagged Alliance 2, Alpha Centauri, Thief 2, Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, Wizardry 8, Deus Ex, Half Life, Quake 3/UT and all those other fine mainstream PC games of the late 90s/very early 2000s.

It's not that I refuse to play games with lesser production values, but if PC gaming is doing better than ever in financial terms, there should be no reason why we can't have games like that anymore. Especially if supposedly kickstarter projects can deliver us that kind of quality with budgets of 1½-4 million dollars (unless they're by hacks called Tim Schafer, and dare I say, Richard Garriott?). Of course I'm not talking about the kind of retarded production value budgets of modern AAA gaming, but it should not be financially impossible to produce games like that in 2014. Look at the 2D and animation of Curse of Monkey Island&Broken Sword 1, the pre rendered backgrounds, soundtrack and voice acting of Longest Journey&Grim Fandango. Or all the big name actors in games Gabriel Knight and Wing Commander (no, I don't think it's a good investment in today's market). Those games had a big time feel to them and they were PC exclusives. They were the AAA games of the time. In fact before PS2/Xbox era, you'd rarely see as high production values in concurrent console games as you saw in the big name PC games of the 90s (I guess it's mostly due to the FMV craze, but it's worth mentioning). The trend started to change during the PS1/Dreamcast era with games like Metal Gear Solid, Parasite Eve, Resident Evil 2, Final Fantasy 7 and Shenmue, but I'd say that overall (in the West atleast) PC had more games with high production values. And relatively speaking, all those 3D games of the time had to be a lot more cutting edge. If I could get a a SS2/Deus Ex/Thief that runs on 2005-2006 tech I'd be happy, it doesn't even need to be modern let alone cutting edge.

So let me say it again: if PC gaming is doing so well these days, it shouldn't be a problem to produce PC games like that again. Games like Starcraft 2 and even Diablo 3; High profile PC games. Nowadays unless a PC game is multiplatform, made by Blizzard/Valve or MOBA/MMO, it'll be in the same category as goat simulator, Dear Esther, Papers please, DayZ, Amnesia (not a bad game) and FTL. It's all just indy developed shit and now thankfully kickstarter projects. Which are fine, but if PC gaming is doing so well, this industry should not be in such a retarded state that an adventure game or RPG developer legend can't get a budget of 4-6 million dollars from publishers because it's just too risky to invest in that kind of niche PC gaming market. But it still makes financial sense to keep on making those AAA games that have to sell over 12 million copies to break even though. A PC game that has to sell 500k-1 million copies to break even? Lunacy, that would be financial suicide.
 
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Monocause

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OP, you seem pretty pissed off about something dude, just chillax.

PC gaming is having its moments of renaissance, MOBA or not MOBA. And i believe 'hipster gaming', as funny and obnoxious as it sometimes is, to be a beginning of a trend where games try to become more like works of culture and less like toys for big babies.
 

Haba

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Show me a PC exclusive game from 2011-2014 that [fills my subjective criteria for quality]

No, I don't think I will.

That kind of games are still being made (in Russia...). They are probably not quite what you're looking for, nor are they what I'd personally like.

Yet objectively looking, PC gaming as a market can thrive, even if you and I are not getting the games we'd like to get. Games like World of Tanks are raking in money faster than the developers can spend. Digitally distributed, half-finished toys like Goat Simulator or Minecraft make millionaires out of basement dwellers.

New golden era of gaming will only come if the gamers and developers themselves change. Unfortunately in this world decline is an irrefutable law of nature.

Things will only get worse.
 
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TheGreatOne

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Silent Storm, Space Rangers and that weird ass horror game. From mid 2000s. Isn't that enough to constitute a thriving industry?
Yet objectively looking, PC gaming as a market can thrive, even if you and I are not getting the games we'd like to get. Games like World of Tanks are raking in money faster than the developers can spend. Digitally distributed, half-finished toys like Goat Simulator or Minecraft make millionaires out of basement dwellers.
The question is: why isn't there any large scale demand or supply for well designed single player experiences? People can talk about emergent gameplay all the want but the fact is that all of these online and sandbox games are lazily designed. Even in the more open ended "old school" games the design was still careful and deliberate, designing levels and mechanics very carefully in order to craft a good single player experience. With the trash that's popular on PC these days that kind of artistry is unnecessary when you're dealing with multiplayer and sandbox games.
OP, you seem pretty pissed off about something dude, just chillax.
I'm not pissed, nor are my messages hostile or angry. Apart from indy art fag hipster bashing, I guess, but overall my tone is fairly neutral.
 

BLOBERT

FUCKING SLAYINGN IT BROS
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BRO WHATVERE IVE HAD TONS OF FUN WITH PC GAMING LATELY

BETWEEN SPAZ HOTLINE MIAMN BIMDING OF ISAAC AND TERRARIA AND COE3 AND FTL I SPENT LIKE TEN MAYNE TWENTY DOLLARS TOTAL AMD ENJOYED MYSELF MORE THAN ANY POPAMOLE

BRO FUUCK THE BIGNBUDGET STUFF
 

CrustyBot

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Codex 2012
We still are getting equally "big budget" games as we did in the early 2000's, yet you and your kin label them as indie or "alternative" based on production values alone.
Show me a PC exclusive game (preferably one that got a physical retail release) from 2011-2014 that rivals System Shock 2, Grim Fandango/Curse of Monkey Island/Broken Sword/The Longest Journey, Jagged Alliance 2, Alpha Centauri, Thief 2, Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, Wizardry 8, Deus Ex, Half Life, Quake 3/UT and all those other fine mainstream PC games of the late 90s/very early 2000s.

Baldur's Gate 1/2 EE, AoE2 HD, AoM HD.

:troll:
 

Cowboy Moment

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We still are getting equally "big budget" games as we did in the early 2000's, yet you and your kin label them as indie or "alternative" based on production values alone.
Show me a PC exclusive game (preferably one that got a physical retail release) from 2011-2014 that rivals System Shock 2, Grim Fandango/Curse of Monkey Island/Broken Sword/The Longest Journey, Jagged Alliance 2, Alpha Centauri, Thief 2, Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, Wizardry 8, Deus Ex, Half Life, Quake 3/UT and all those other fine mainstream PC games of the late 90s/very early 2000s.

Are you complaining about budget size or quality? The latter is definitely down since that period, which was easily the best time for PC gaming, ever. Why that is exactly, is a complicated problem, although worth discussing.

When it comes to budget size though, we're easily there. Both SS2 and Thief cost under $2 million to make. I can only imagine that a recent PC exclusive like Age of Wonders 3 has a comparable budget. Civilization is still being made, and the next installment appears to be moving to SMAC territory. We're getting a bunch of kickstarter games which are spiritual successors to what you listed. We've also gotten the STALKER games, which are certainly much better than Half Life and sequels.

In any case, you better hope all of these do well on the market, because the future of this kind of mid-sized (in modern terms) game development depends on it, and that's the only way we'll ever get the games we want.
 

Suicidal

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Even the shittiest MMOs or MOBAs out there are 10 times more mechanically complex and gameplay oriented than the console shit like Uncharted and the The Last of Us.

Can't brofist this enough. Not to mention, they are way more fun.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
League of Legends is a slack-jawed faggot's MOBA game, but I think they have somewhere in the range of 20-60 Million Account Holders or something. The game is also Pay to Progress in the Zynga fashion.

DotA 2 has ~7 Million Active users every month, not sure how many accounts.

Btw do Facebook Games count regarding that?
 
Self-Ejected

ScottishMartialArts

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You are far too optimistic , if at least it was moba, they are tolerable at least, but facebook stuff like candycrush bring even more money. Pc gaming at its finest too.

It is Moba. Read the article.

DFC says that MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena) titles like League of Legends andDotA 2 “dominate everything else by an order of magnitude in terms of more usage than other products,” followed by MMOs, strategy games, and shooters.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Are you complaining about budget size or quality? The latter is definitely down since that period, which was easily the best time for PC gaming, ever. Why that is exactly, is a complicated problem, although worth discussing.

When it comes to budget size though, we're easily there. Both SS2 and Thief cost under $2 million to make. I can only imagine that a recent PC exclusive like Age of Wonders 3 has a comparable budget. Civilization is still being made, and the next installment appears to be moving to SMAC territory. We're getting a bunch of kickstarter games which are spiritual successors to what you listed. We've also gotten the STALKER games, which are certainly much better than Half Life and sequels.

In any case, you better hope all of these do well on the market, because the future of this kind of mid-sized (in modern terms) game development depends on it, and that's the only way we'll ever get the games we want.
I find it hard to believe Thief cost less than 2 million dollars. It was in development for a long time. I wonder if that doesn't count the cancelled project that they took all the tech from.

To further your point though, Paradox games are being made are getting more and more bells and whistles with each iteration.

The curious "gap" in the market is 10-20 million dollar budget games that could turn a profit on PC. I suspect if some of the kickstarters work out, we'll see those return. If Wasteland 2 sells a million copies (I *think* this is the realistic upper limit) and InXile gets $20 per copy, that could lead to a 10 million budget RPG.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
Are you complaining about budget size or quality? The latter is definitely down since that period, which was easily the best time for PC gaming, ever. Why that is exactly, is a complicated problem, although worth discussing.

When it comes to budget size though, we're easily there. Both SS2 and Thief cost under $2 million to make. I can only imagine that a recent PC exclusive like Age of Wonders 3 has a comparable budget. Civilization is still being made, and the next installment appears to be moving to SMAC territory. We're getting a bunch of kickstarter games which are spiritual successors to what you listed. We've also gotten the STALKER games, which are certainly much better than Half Life and sequels.

In any case, you better hope all of these do well on the market, because the future of this kind of mid-sized (in modern terms) game development depends on it, and that's the only way we'll ever get the games we want.
I find it hard to believe Thief cost less than 2 million dollars. It was in development for a long time. I wonder if that doesn't count the cancelled project that they took all the tech from.

To further your point though, Paradox games are being made are getting more and more bells and whistles with each iteration.

The curious "gap" in the market is 10-20 million dollar budget games that could turn a profit on PC. I suspect if some of the kickstarters work out, we'll see those return. If Wasteland 2 sells a million copies (I *think* this is the realistic upper limit) and InXile gets $20 per copy, that could lead to a 10 million budget RPG.

I stand corrected somewhat, it was 3 million for Thief, from the mouth of Tom Leonard himself: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131762/postmortem_thief_the_dark_project.hp?page=4

19 developers for 2.5 years + some contractor work.

I was right about SS2 costing 1.7 million though, which is mindblowing when you think about the depth and breadth of that game: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131813/postmortem_irrational_games_.hp?page=3
 
Self-Ejected

ScottishMartialArts

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I find it hard to believe Thief cost less than 2 million dollars. It was in development for a long time. I wonder if that doesn't count the cancelled project that they took all the tech from.

It was in development for 2.5 years, from earliest preproduction/brainstorming to boxed copies on store shelves, with a full time team of about 20-25 people. The design went through numerous iterations -- hence the disjointed level concepts in the game that shipped -- but even by the standards of the mid-late nineties, the game wasn't in develop for much longer than average. The game's budget certainly knocked the wind out of 2 million dollars, but if it did go over that mark, it can't have been by much.
 

Papa Môlé

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OP, you seem pretty pissed off about something dude, just chillax.

PC gaming is having its moments of renaissance, MOBA or not MOBA. And i believe 'hipster gaming', as funny and obnoxious as it sometimes is, to be a beginning of a trend where games try to become more like works of culture and less like toys for big babies.

If only the rest of pop culture was as ashamed of itself as video games.
 

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