Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Arcanum Arcanum is a bit shit tbh

Humbaba

Arcane
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
2,939
Location
SADAT HQ
Let me preface this post by saying that I don't actually hate Arcanum. To me it is the quintessential 6/10, a game that despite being relatively lame is still worth playing, if only to get inspired by its shortcomings to do better. The prose is good and the game puts forward a lot of interesting ideas. Out of all RPGs I like though I like Arcanum the least by far. So allow me tear into this codex darling and explain to you why it bites.

Let's start with the the combat. I think it is uncontroversial to say that the combat is laughably bad even by the standards of the time. My main issue is not even that builds are so heavily unbalanced. I actually like asymmetry, because then it becomes part of the fun to experiment and discover which builds are the best. However, what I don't like is when the most effective builds are those that really shouldn't be the most effective. In Arcanum, during a time where revolvers exist, the most straight forwardly effective build is a medieval style melee fighter. In fact, it is ridiculous how rarely firearms are used, how much they suck and how comparatively common fucking broadswords and chainmail still are. Besides that, enemy and encounter design is boring and complete shit, switching between TB and RT combat is utterly broken and everyone who has played the game can attest to that, which is why I will save us all some time and not belabour the point any further. It amazes me that the game was allowed to ship like this.

The world building and setting of Arcanum receive a lot of undeserved praise. On a surface level most locations are horrendously badly designed. Tarant, yknow the big victorian tech hub of the world feels and looks nothing like a 19th century industrial city. It consists of maybe 2 dozen suburban, flat roofed huts and a park that is the size of an average living room. There is exactly one single factory that contains no machinery, 3 Orcs and not even a chimney. Gilbert Bates' mansion looks like shit too. Besides Tarant, every other location except maybe Qintarra looks like shit. Baldurs' Gate in BG1 looks better than any location in Arcanum. It's embarrassing how bad everything looks.

On a lore level, the central conflict between magic, excuse me "Magick", and technology is completely fucking contrived and bullshit. The given reason as to why the two don't mix is that one obeys the laws of nature while the other violates them, slowly rendering magick obsolete. This is nothing more than startrek level technobabble. Realistically, the reason why technology would replace magic is simply availability and accessibility; not everyone can become a wizard and teleport or shoot fireballs but everyone can buy a gun or board a train. If anybody in Arcanum could become a wizard, then the demand for technological advancements would not exist. The level of tech is also all over the place. As I've said before, in a world with revolvers, there would be no chainmail or broadswords, or flintlock guns for that matter. Arcanum is dated to 1885 and assuming Arcanum's 1885 is similar to our 1885, flintlock guns would've long been replaced by percussion locks. Rifles are presumably percussion locks but we don't know that do we?

Even when engaging with this contrived premise on its own terms, it is presented inconsistently throughout the game. It is never made clear whether or not tech and magick cancel eachother out or whether or not one overwhelms the other, as there are conflicting instances. On one hand, wizards are not allowed to come to close to a steam engine, because their magic chernobyl rays interfere with it and stop it from functioning. However, Jongle Dunn wants to destroy Shrouded Hills' generator machine thing because it interferes with his magic and prevents him from doing magic things. Here we have two conflicting instances: in one, magick overwhelms tech and in the other tech overwhelms magic. So what is it? If they cancelled each other out, then neither the generator nor Jongle Dunn would be able to serve their respective functions, so that can't be it. Also, what counts a technology exactly? Why are ships not affected? Don't they rely on the physical law of buoyancy? How come they don't sink as soon as a wizard steps foot on one? Why don't automatons explode immediately in the presence of a wizard? Why don't wizards lose all their powers when around automatons? Why don't highly technological characters explode too? Why does technological aptitude grant magic resistance, when magic is supposed to overwhelm tech? Why are magical enemies harder to hit with technological weapons, when tech is supposed to overwhelm magic? Either way, this whole magic vs. tech thing is poorly thought out, all because the writers had to invent some pseudo scientific garbage. Cumbria supposedly got its shit pushed in because of the kingdom's reliance on magick instead of technology but seeing as magick is supposed to fuck with tech, Cumbria should've won that war right?

Arcanum's story is well liked, for reason that elude me. First of all, the story commits the cardinal sin of it not being about you, the PC. You are a spectator, an errand boy without any substantial motivation or a meaningful arc. Virgil is the main fucking character, not you. You don't exist to participate in and shape the game's story, you only exist to experience the oh so cool plot the writers came up with.

Second of all, it commits another cardinal sin: there is no good villain. Aspiring gamedevs listen up, this one's for free: A good villain must, I repeat, MUST shit on the PC's couch right at the beginning of the game. The player must be given a personal reason to defeat the villain and he must learn to hate him. You don't chase down Sarevok because a dying dwarf told you to, you do it because that faggot killed your jewish foster father. You don't pursue Jon Irenicus, the best villain in RPG and gaming history, because there is a prophecy saying that you should, but because that incel tortured you and killed and kidnapped your friends. Arcanum gives you nothing like this. It certainly doesn't help that the whole chosen one angle is a red herring anyway, because it is only revealed as such close to the end of the game, meaning that everything up until that point was basically meaningless. It also turns out that the villain is actually Kerghan IN THE LAST DUNGEON! This is JRPG level writing. That's also 2 red herrings in one plot, which is shit writing as well, because once again it turns out that you were just fucking about for no reason.

Worst of all, Kerghan feels completely out of place, like he was supposed to be the villain in a whole other game. His motivation does not tie into Arcanum's main theme whatsoever, the conflict between magick and technology, progress vs. tradition. The writers could've taken this golden opportunity to explore all sorts of relevant and interesting question via the main plot i.e. the economic and societal effects of a rapidly changing world, the merit tradition may still have and how to tackle the many problems that unavoidably come with innovation. Sadly, the writers are braindead American atheists and made Kerghan and edgy atheist, who wants to erase all life because muh life is suffering. What's even worse is that you can talk him out of his plan. Kerghan, a necromancer who has been dwelling on this issue for literally thousands of years can just be talked out of his grand scheme by a random gnome with a master's degree in persuasion. Gamedevs here's another freebie: if you desperately want to ape Fallout 1 or Planescape and make it possible to talk the final boss to death, have it make sense. You don't talk the Master out of his plan as much as you scientifically prove to him that his plan cannot work, whereupon he abandons it on his own terms. You don't just convince TTO to stop being a dick, you can have a deep conversation, resolving the game's central conflict, which makes him unite with you. Or you can threaten to kill yourself which is badass. Arcanum is just as bad an implementation of that concept as New Vegas is. Lanius is not the guy to duke it out with you in a game of wits and he should not believe ANYTHING you say to him, because you have every incentive to lie. By the same token Kerghan should not be convinced by anybody to change his mind, short of providing him with a video recording of God almighty himself telling him that life is awesome.

Then there's several smaller gripes I have. Arcanum is objectively a harbinger of decline because it introduced crafting, which is not implemented well. Glue a pipe to a rifle and you get an elephant gun. This is the sort of videogame logic people make fun of in those funny little newgrounds videos. The soundtrack is also so fucking terrible, like holy shit. Are Americans not aware that there were other instruments beside stringed instruments in the 19th century? And why does it sound so melancholic? Am I dying of tuberculosis or what? Companions are garbage as well and badly voiced for the most part. Virgil for example can't decide on whether or not to use American or British vernacular and Magnus' VA can't do a scottish accent to safe his life. Magnus is also completely unlikable and I only don't kill him because I need more mules. Very clear decline from BG2 or PST or even Fallout 2. Wtf is up with the map? This waypoint system is so fucking gay, just let me click on the map and have my guys pathfind to that location like holy shit is that so hard? Dungeons are boring and bad and traps are absolutely bitch-made. Decline from any other RPG before it. Why the fuck can I just ask a random guard to train me in "Dodge"? Not even dodging just fucking "Dodge". What kind of fucking world is this? Nice immersion bro. Decline.

In short, Arcanum is about as good as it is shit and I'm glad that Troika is out of business and that everyone involved with Troika has continued to showcase why it failed in the first place. Looking at you Outer Worlds.
:rpgcodex:
 

Alphons

Cipher
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
2,557
Firstly, I am a longtime RPG veteran. Having played games, such as. Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Outer Worlds, Fallout New Vegas, Oblivion and of course system shock. So when I say I am fairly well versed in the quality and merits of what makes a GOOD "rpg". Rather then, what make an RPG infact utter tripe.

When I was a young lad. I played this game that has henceforth been known as Arcanum. Firstly I was shocked, apalled, nay, even dsigusted by the lack of role playing experience in this game. The whole of the game seemed to assume, that as an educated gamer and RPG veteran. I would be content with simply traversing the barren hellscape of the land known as arcanum. At first as I stepped off the airship and realized there was no true RPG system in this game. I was disgusted. Nevertheless I decided to press onward through the opening city. However, Every settlement I happened across had almost no population. The world was completely static and desolate.

Each character I encountered had so artistic soul or creativity into their personality. They were simply empty shells there for text exposition. Nevertheless I pushed forward into this "game" of sorts. When I happened upon a chance combat encounter. I quickly discovered to my horror how awful the combat system truly was. You simply spam your harm! Of course how genius!. This coupled with the general poor skill system, coupled with the absolutely dreary world. In my expert opinion this game is clearly of poor quality and value.

In conclusion; I find it extremely fitting that the game world is covered in giant sewers. Sewers of course grow in shit, if anyone is unaware of this. Is there perhaps anyone willing to debate or challenge this game based upon its true virtues? Or are Arcanum fans only capable of reacting with emoji's. It's quite comincal indeed that this absolute tripe of a game has such a simple minded following.

As I have said before; Arcanum is UTTER Tripe.
 

Broseph

Dangerous JB
Patron
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
4,394
Location
Globohomo Gayplex
Yes.

EB1F7310-348E-4432-9A96-21324817361B.jpeg
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,184
Location
Bjørgvin
Arcanum is fun enough if you don't analize it too much.

My character (Half-Ogre Melee/Magic) is lvl 23 now, and the thing that bugs me most is not the combat (since I was mentally prepared for the worst combat since Ultima IV), but how NPCs behave. I mean how they suddenly will suicide themselves during dialogue, and how other NPCs will attack the player when you are attacked by the Moloch (sp?) fanatics in bars and inns.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
My character (Half-Ogre Melee/Magic) is lvl 23 now, and the thing that bugs me most is not the combat (since I was mentally prepared for the worst combat since Ultima IV), but how NPCs behave. I mean how they suddenly will suicide themselves during dialogue, and how other NPCs will attack the player when you are attacked by the Moloch (sp?) fanatics in bars and inns.

It doesn't happen so much if at all if you don't pick the karma amplifier origin and if you don't piss off drunkards.
Dialog matter, it's a RPG with easy combat but still, you can't get away with insulting people while you're still at the bottom of the food chain.
 

Humbaba

Arcane
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
2,939
Location
SADAT HQ
My character (Half-Ogre Melee/Magic) is lvl 23 now, and the thing that bugs me most is not the combat (since I was mentally prepared for the worst combat since Ultima IV), but how NPCs behave. I mean how they suddenly will suicide themselves during dialogue, and how other NPCs will attack the player when you are attacked by the Moloch (sp?) fanatics in bars and inns.

It doesn't happen so much if at all if you don't pick the karma amplifier origin and if you don't piss off drunkards.
Dialog matter, it's a RPG with easy combat but still, you can't get away with insulting people while you're still at the bottom of the food chain.

So if you insult someone they are justified in killing you? This isn't Albania. If I call that motherfucking constable a coward because he is then he really should not attempt to extrajudicially execute me, unless he's also insane. Same goes for Magnus that fag manlet, who will readily break your neck if you as much as insult his beard. This isn't even understandable behaviour by videogame standards. Once again, Arcanum fails miserably at immersion.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,760
In short, Arcanum is about as good as it is shit and I'm glad that Troika is out of business and that everyone involved with Troika has continued to showcase why it failed in the first place. Looking at you Outer Worlds.
:5/5::4/5: for Trolling

Although you joined the Codex only a month ago, you are already a true Codexian. :martini:
 

Poseidon00

Arcane
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
2,039
Don't talk to me or my son or my sons son or my sons sons son ever again.

"I don't like the conflict between magic and science, magic doesn't make sense because it's magic"

stfu and gtfo you goober it's magic
 
Self-Ejected

Alphard

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
1,487
Location
Draghistan ( former Italy)
Arcanum may have pro and cons. I never played it but since it is isometric i already know it is an irredimable pile of trash , made so due to technological limitations

edit: oh look, the butthurt isometric trash loving incels start to spam the retadred button , because they have no arguments. Keep going pls
 
Last edited:

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,874
Needs more gremlin/goblin waifu mechanics to fix the tech. I went into Arcanum hoping the guns route was best. Yeah, I believe melee and magick wrecks shit more but that was long ago on a shit computer where everything ran at 1/2 to 1/4 speed. God it was slow. Dunno now.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
Patron
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
5,898
Location
The land of ice and snow.
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Second of all, it commits another cardinal sin: there is no good villain. Aspiring gamedevs listen up, this one's for free: A good villain must, I repeat, MUST shit on the PC's couch right at the beginning of the game.
This is not necessarily the case. In Dark Souls, for example, there is no real villain. The villain is entropy. The inevitable and inescapable decay of the universe, and what are you willing to do as a consequence to it.

Besides... knowing who your villain is from the first second of the game, might be a good hook, but not the best one. P:T basically starts with no real hook, and while MCA is on record for saying that is the weaker parts of the game, I disagree. I think pure amnesia and trying to figure things out are good enough.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,381
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I tried really hard to enjoy Arcanum but there was so much jank and shit combat that I couldn't force myself to play it longer then an hour or two. OP seems to be making some good points though (putting aside his apparent love of BG2 which was SHIT compared to BG1), so I'd love for some of the people that hype up Arcanum to defend their beloved game.
 

curds

Magister
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
1,098
My character (Half-Ogre Melee/Magic) is lvl 23 now, and the thing that bugs me most is not the combat (since I was mentally prepared for the worst combat since Ultima IV), but how NPCs behave. I mean how they suddenly will suicide themselves during dialogue, and how other NPCs will attack the player when you are attacked by the Moloch (sp?) fanatics in bars and inns.

It doesn't happen so much if at all if you don't pick the karma amplifier origin and if you don't piss off drunkards.
Dialog matter, it's a RPG with easy combat but still, you can't get away with insulting people while you're still at the bottom of the food chain.
I fucking love arcanum but this is a totally valid complaint. some assassin attacks you in a bar, then when you fight back, everyone joins in attacking you. it's retarded, no excuses.

It happens to me every time and i've never picked a karma amplifying background.
 

curds

Magister
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
1,098
My character (Half-Ogre Melee/Magic) is lvl 23 now, and the thing that bugs me most is not the combat (since I was mentally prepared for the worst combat since Ultima IV), but how NPCs behave. I mean how they suddenly will suicide themselves during dialogue, and how other NPCs will attack the player when you are attacked by the Moloch (sp?) fanatics in bars and inns.

It doesn't happen so much if at all if you don't pick the karma amplifier origin and if you don't piss off drunkards.
Dialog matter, it's a RPG with easy combat but still, you can't get away with insulting people while you're still at the bottom of the food chain.

So if you insult someone they are justified in killing you? This isn't Albania. If I call that motherfucking constable a coward because he is then he really should not attempt to extrajudicially execute me, unless he's also insane. Same goes for Magnus that fag manlet, who will readily break your neck if you as much as insult his beard. This isn't even understandable behaviour by videogame standards. Once again, Arcanum fails miserably at immersion.

this shit happens in fallout, too, by the way.

In shady sands, the guard standing at the gate asks you to rescue his girlfriend. If you refuse to do it without first knowing how much you'll be paid, the whole town turns hostile on you.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom