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Arcanum Arcanum is a bit shit tbh

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
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Messages
12,867
That's Him:


Dog (Worthless Mutt)
5jwJLmK.jpg

Dog being kicked to death by a gnome outside Ashbury Hostelry.
Appearance
L8rG3wV.png

Location Ashbury, outside Ashbury Hostelry
Initial level 12
Race Dog
Sex Unknown
Alignment Neutral
Voiced Yes
Stats ST 15, CN 8,
DX 14, BE 8,
IN 8, WP 10,
PE 8, CH 8
Skills Dodge, Melee (up to Master)
Aptitude Neither
Dog can be found slumped on the floor near Ashbury inn. He is being berated and kicked to death by an angry gnome, at which point the player has the option of rescuing him. If the player takes too long to do so, he will die. Once he is rescued, Dog will immediately join as a companion and despite his helpless demeanor when first encountered, becomes the most powerful melee companion available. He will also not count against the maximum follower limit.

It's not clear when the gnome starts kicking Dog. If you want to add Dog to your party, you should head for him right away when you visit Ashbury for the first time. Otherwise the gnome might kill him.

DRAWBACKS:

  • With Dog in your party you will not be able to board the train.
  • Dog doesn't have an inventory, and as such cannot help you carry stuff.
WOOF!!! WOOF!!!
 
Last edited:

Kainan

Learned
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Jul 24, 2020
Messages
191
Let me preface this post by saying that I don't actually hate Arcanum. To me it is the quintessential 6/10, a game that despite being relatively lame is still worth playing, if only to get inspired by its shortcomings to do better. The prose is good and the game puts forward a lot of interesting ideas. Out of all RPGs I like though I like Arcanum the least by far. So allow me tear into this codex darling and explain to you why it bites.

Let's start with the the combat. I think it is uncontroversial to say that the combat is laughably bad even by the standards of the time. My main issue is not even that builds are so heavily unbalanced. I actually like asymmetry, because then it becomes part of the fun to experiment and discover which builds are the best. However, what I don't like is when the most effective builds are those that really shouldn't be the most effective. In Arcanum, during a time where revolvers exist, the most straight forwardly effective build is a medieval style melee fighter. In fact, it is ridiculous how rarely firearms are used, how much they suck and how comparatively common fucking broadswords and chainmail still are. Besides that, enemy and encounter design is boring and complete shit, switching between TB and RT combat is utterly broken and everyone who has played the game can attest to that, which is why I will save us all some time and not belabour the point any further. It amazes me that the game was allowed to ship like this.

The world building and setting of Arcanum receive a lot of undeserved praise. On a surface level most locations are horrendously badly designed. Tarant, yknow the big victorian tech hub of the world feels and looks nothing like a 19th century industrial city. It consists of maybe 2 dozen suburban, flat roofed huts and a park that is the size of an average living room. There is exactly one single factory that contains no machinery, 3 Orcs and not even a chimney. Gilbert Bates' mansion looks like shit too. Besides Tarant, every other location except maybe Qintarra looks like shit. Baldurs' Gate in BG1 looks better than any location in Arcanum. It's embarrassing how bad everything looks.

On a lore level, the central conflict between magic, excuse me "Magick", and technology is completely fucking contrived and bullshit. The given reason as to why the two don't mix is that one obeys the laws of nature while the other violates them, slowly rendering magick obsolete. This is nothing more than startrek level technobabble. Realistically, the reason why technology would replace magic is simply availability and accessibility; not everyone can become a wizard and teleport or shoot fireballs but everyone can buy a gun or board a train. If anybody in Arcanum could become a wizard, then the demand for technological advancements would not exist. The level of tech is also all over the place. As I've said before, in a world with revolvers, there would be no chainmail or broadswords, or flintlock guns for that matter. Arcanum is dated to 1885 and assuming Arcanum's 1885 is similar to our 1885, flintlock guns would've long been replaced by percussion locks. Rifles are presumably percussion locks but we don't know that do we?

Even when engaging with this contrived premise on its own terms, it is presented inconsistently throughout the game. It is never made clear whether or not tech and magick cancel eachother out or whether or not one overwhelms the other, as there are conflicting instances. On one hand, wizards are not allowed to come to close to a steam engine, because their magic chernobyl rays interfere with it and stop it from functioning. However, Jongle Dunn wants to destroy Shrouded Hills' generator machine thing because it interferes with his magic and prevents him from doing magic things. Here we have two conflicting instances: in one, magick overwhelms tech and in the other tech overwhelms magic. So what is it? If they cancelled each other out, then neither the generator nor Jongle Dunn would be able to serve their respective functions, so that can't be it. Also, what counts a technology exactly? Why are ships not affected? Don't they rely on the physical law of buoyancy? How come they don't sink as soon as a wizard steps foot on one? Why don't automatons explode immediately in the presence of a wizard? Why don't wizards lose all their powers when around automatons? Why don't highly technological characters explode too? Why does technological aptitude grant magic resistance, when magic is supposed to overwhelm tech? Why are magical enemies harder to hit with technological weapons, when tech is supposed to overwhelm magic? Either way, this whole magic vs. tech thing is poorly thought out, all because the writers had to invent some pseudo scientific garbage. Cumbria supposedly got its shit pushed in because of the kingdom's reliance on magick instead of technology but seeing as magick is supposed to fuck with tech, Cumbria should've won that war right?

Arcanum's story is well liked, for reason that elude me. First of all, the story commits the cardinal sin of it not being about you, the PC. You are a spectator, an errand boy without any substantial motivation or a meaningful arc. Virgil is the main fucking character, not you. You don't exist to participate in and shape the game's story, you only exist to experience the oh so cool plot the writers came up with.

Second of all, it commits another cardinal sin: there is no good villain. Aspiring gamedevs listen up, this one's for free: A good villain must, I repeat, MUST shit on the PC's couch right at the beginning of the game. The player must be given a personal reason to defeat the villain and he must learn to hate him. You don't chase down Sarevok because a dying dwarf told you to, you do it because that faggot killed your jewish foster father. You don't pursue Jon Irenicus, the best villain in RPG and gaming history, because there is a prophecy saying that you should, but because that incel tortured you and killed and kidnapped your friends. Arcanum gives you nothing like this. It certainly doesn't help that the whole chosen one angle is a red herring anyway, because it is only revealed as such close to the end of the game, meaning that everything up until that point was basically meaningless. It also turns out that the villain is actually Kerghan IN THE LAST DUNGEON! This is JRPG level writing. That's also 2 red herrings in one plot, which is shit writing as well, because once again it turns out that you were just fucking about for no reason.

Worst of all, Kerghan feels completely out of place, like he was supposed to be the villain in a whole other game. His motivation does not tie into Arcanum's main theme whatsoever, the conflict between magick and technology, progress vs. tradition. The writers could've taken this golden opportunity to explore all sorts of relevant and interesting question via the main plot i.e. the economic and societal effects of a rapidly changing world, the merit tradition may still have and how to tackle the many problems that unavoidably come with innovation. Sadly, the writers are braindead American atheists and made Kerghan and edgy atheist, who wants to erase all life because muh life is suffering. What's even worse is that you can talk him out of his plan. Kerghan, a necromancer who has been dwelling on this issue for literally thousands of years can just be talked out of his grand scheme by a random gnome with a master's degree in persuasion. Gamedevs here's another freebie: if you desperately want to ape Fallout 1 or Planescape and make it possible to talk the final boss to death, have it make sense. You don't talk the Master out of his plan as much as you scientifically prove to him that his plan cannot work, whereupon he abandons it on his own terms. You don't just convince TTO to stop being a dick, you can have a deep conversation, resolving the game's central conflict, which makes him unite with you. Or you can threaten to kill yourself which is badass. Arcanum is just as bad an implementation of that concept as New Vegas is. Lanius is not the guy to duke it out with you in a game of wits and he should not believe ANYTHING you say to him, because you have every incentive to lie. By the same token Kerghan should not be convinced by anybody to change his mind, short of providing him with a video recording of God almighty himself telling him that life is awesome.

Then there's several smaller gripes I have. Arcanum is objectively a harbinger of decline because it introduced crafting, which is not implemented well. Glue a pipe to a rifle and you get an elephant gun. This is the sort of videogame logic people make fun of in those funny little newgrounds videos. The soundtrack is also so fucking terrible, like holy shit. Are Americans not aware that there were other instruments beside stringed instruments in the 19th century? And why does it sound so melancholic? Am I dying of tuberculosis or what? Companions are garbage as well and badly voiced for the most part. Virgil for example can't decide on whether or not to use American or British vernacular and Magnus' VA can't do a scottish accent to safe his life. Magnus is also completely unlikable and I only don't kill him because I need more mules. Very clear decline from BG2 or PST or even Fallout 2. Wtf is up with the map? This waypoint system is so fucking gay, just let me click on the map and have my guys pathfind to that location like holy shit is that so hard? Dungeons are boring and bad and traps are absolutely bitch-made. Decline from any other RPG before it. Why the fuck can I just ask a random guard to train me in "Dodge"? Not even dodging just fucking "Dodge". What kind of fucking world is this? Nice immersion bro. Decline.

In short, Arcanum is about as good as it is shit and I'm glad that Troika is out of business and that everyone involved with Troika has continued to showcase why it failed in the first place. Looking at you Outer Worlds.
:rpgcodex:
Bates' mansion doesn't look like shit :rpgcodex::decline:
 

Red Hexapus

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I've seen a dog mentioned a couple of times.
I found "Worthless Mutt" in Ashbury, but it was dead.

Yeah, if you don't get to him the moment you enter Ashbury, the gnome will kick it to death. Which is crazy, knowing how strong the Mutt is in combat and could've dismembered the gnome in two bites.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut
I've seen a dog mentioned a couple of times.
I found "Worthless Mutt" in Ashbury, but it was dead.

Yeah, if you don't get to him the moment you enter Ashbury, the gnome will kick it to death. Which is crazy, knowing how strong the Mutt is in combat and could've dismembered the gnome in two bites.
Seems pretty realistic to me if you've ever encountered someone abusing their dog without it retaliating at all.
 

Red Hexapus

Learned
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I've seen a dog mentioned a couple of times.
I found "Worthless Mutt" in Ashbury, but it was dead.

Yeah, if you don't get to him the moment you enter Ashbury, the gnome will kick it to death. Which is crazy, knowing how strong the Mutt is in combat and could've dismembered the gnome in two bites.
Seems pretty realistic to me if you've ever encountered someone abusing their dog without it retaliating at all.
Fortunately, I never had a chance to experience such abuse IRL.
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
My character (Half-Ogre Melee/Magic) is lvl 23 now, and the thing that bugs me most is not the combat (since I was mentally prepared for the worst combat since Ultima IV), but how NPCs behave. I mean how they suddenly will suicide themselves during dialogue, and how other NPCs will attack the player when you are attacked by the Moloch (sp?) fanatics in bars and inns.

It doesn't happen so much if at all if you don't pick the karma amplifier origin and if you don't piss off drunkards.
Dialog matter, it's a RPG with easy combat but still, you can't get away with insulting people while you're still at the bottom of the food chain.
I fucking love arcanum but this is a totally valid complaint. some assassin attacks you in a bar, then when you fight back, everyone joins in attacking you. it's retarded, no excuses.

It happens to me every time and i've never picked a karma amplifying background.

Almost happened to me first thing in Tarant, but I killed the assassin, the bartender told me to cut it out, and that was that.

I guess it's to be expected with the first impression "reputation score" you get when NPCs first meet you, based on beauty etc. As a Half-Orc I realized that was gonna be a problem in Tarant so I changed into nicer clothing before I even went into the bar. It makes a big difference, the humans don't treat you like a nigger.

Yes the clothes, race, being tech pleb or :obviously: Magister all counts its totally realistic to be thrown out from nice establishment and then buttoned by cops when you look, talk and behave like N I G G E R or Hobo in RL too Comrade.

This is why first thing I did when I played as male (females had option to buy nice silk dress in char creator shop) was to buy nice red texuedo in Tarant and wear it when speaking with authorities and high society.

This is +20 to reaction IRC just enough for people either take your side in brawl or at very least stay neutral.
 
Joined
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Messages
167
Arcanum is unfinished but still a very solid game, i prefer an unfinished but ambitious game that the generic garbage that plays all the same that we have today. Game manuals not only disappeared because they don't want to waste paper/ whatever bullshit reason they might give you, it's because all games play the fucking same, if a remember right the manual of Arcanum included food recipes, how cool is that?
So if you like unfinished but ambitious then you like Encased I assume?
 

curds

Magister
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Messages
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Yes the clothes, race, being tech pleb or :obviously: Magister all counts its totally realistic to be thrown out from nice establishment and then buttoned by cops when you look, talk and behave like N I G G E R or Hobo in RL too Comrade.
Last playthrough I was a high CHA elf mage and it still happened. Being chucked out for behaving badly is realistic. Being attacked to the death by a whole pub of people for defending myself against an assailant is not.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
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Messages
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Yes the clothes, race, being tech pleb or :obviously: Magister all counts its totally realistic to be thrown out from nice establishment and then buttoned by cops when you look, talk and behave like N I G G E R or Hobo in RL too Comrade.
Last playthrough I was a high CHA elf mage and it still happened. Being chucked out for behaving badly is realistic. Being attacked to the death by a whole pub of people for defending myself against an assailant is not.
Are you 100% sure you or your companion was the first one who struck the blow?
 

Humbaba

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Some good critiques, like the firearms points, however most of the points made by the OP are bad and wrong. Not every RPG needs a villain. You can make a great RPG all about solving water problem in your "village", can make great sandbox RPGs like mount & blade and can have a game with no good guys like fallout new vegas.

As for combat being unbalanced, again FUCK BALANCE!!! Fun >>> Balance.

Arcanum has problems? Yes, but still a amazing game where you as a necromancer can even talk with deceased NPCs and the game reacts a lot to the player. With crazy high CHA, you can even convince the final boss to kill himself.

Here we have two conflicting instances: in one, magick overwhelms tech and in the other tech overwhelms magic. So what is it? If they cancelled each other out, then neither the generator nor Jongle Dunn would be able to serve their respective functions

It is explained with magical aptitude mechanic. Someone with low magic aptitude will suffer interference from high tech, however, someone with high magic aptitude will cause interference. Not a conflict. You can't use magical stuff in high tech cities if your magical aptitude is low.

It is a example of game mechanics and lore being amazinly in lore

what counts a technology exactly? Why are ships not affected?

Simple, just like you have tier 1 magic and tier 5 magic in arcanum, you have low tech and high tech. Something simple which can be obtained by bronze age technology is "low tech", a robot is "high tech".

ssue for literally thousands of years can just be talked out of his grand scheme by a random gnome with a master's degree in persuasion

Someone with max STR can do inhuman stuff with his muscles. Why with CHARISMA/persuasion is not different? That is great that you can do something like that.

>Not every RPG needs a villain

Maybe let me rephrase: every RPG needs a central narrative conflict, whether that be embodied by a single person or not. Arcanum has no central conflict. You're just given the ring and told by Virgil that you're Jesus and that you should go to Shrouded Hills. The PC has 0 agency. Someone else mentioned PST not having a villain or a hook but that's wrong. PST has a hook via TNO's tattoo on his back. Besides, despite TTO only appearing in the midgame, he himself is not a traditional antagonist but rather the manifestation of the story's conflict. PST is more of a character study in that way and thus not comparable to more conventional narratives like Arcanum's. I don't see why you would mention M&B either, since it is a bad comparison as well, it being primarily a sandbox.

On the point of New Vegas: what's actually kinda brilliant in that game is that it has you actively choose the protagonists and antagonists without the story suffering for it. In basically every other RPG, going the "evil" route is done just for shits and giggles and usually results in a shit narrative. It always feels like that this is really not how the story is supposed to go, but New Vegas delivers a satisfying story regardless of who you choose to make the antagonist. Either way, there is a villain, either the Legion or the NCR (or both) and a hero, namely the PC.

>still a amazing game where you as a necromancer can even talk with deceased NPCs

People keep bringing that up. It's a gimmick and one you are not going to even encounter if you're not a necromancer. This is like saying Skyrim is immersive because you can find and read scaly porn.

>the game reacts a lot to the player

That's a mixed bag. For one, it gets really old really fast once you realise that every single NPC is going to be racist towards you if you are a half-orc for example. Everyone being equally racist also results in a bad case of Planet of Hats syndrome. Sometimes the game just doesn't react at all. For example, if you roll a gnome you still greet certain gnome characters with "Hello, gnome", which is stupid. Unless "gnome" is the gnome equivalent of blacks calling each other the n-word but wouldn't it be "Gnigga" then?

>Someone with low magic aptitude will suffer interference from high tech, however, someone with high magic aptitude will cause interference.

So it's relative then? That can't be true because then, healing spells for example would stop fizzling out on a tech character once the mage casting the spell reaches a sufficiently high magical aptitude but that's not the case in-game. Whether or not a spell fizzles it determined only by the receiving characters tech aptitude. The aptitude system thus suggest that tech overwhelms or neutralises magic but that's at odds with other conflicting instances.

>Simple, just like you have tier 1 magic and tier 5 magic in arcanum, you have low tech and high tech. Something simple which can be obtained by bronze age technology is "low tech", a robot is "high tech".

Head canon. Besides, ships are by no means low tier tech, just because they're made of wood.

>Someone with max STR can do inhuman stuff with his muscles. Why with CHARISMA/persuasion is not different?

It's purely a matter of plausibility, as I've pointed out. I see no plausible scenario in which someone like Kerghan would simply give up just because the PC "made some good points". It makes Kerghan look like a gullible goober and completely invalidates his plan for no other reason than him apparently not thinking it through with thousands of years of free time mind you.
 

Darth Canoli

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Almost happened to me first thing in Tarant, but I killed the assassin, the bartender told me to cut it out, and that was that.

I guess it's to be expected with the first impression "reputation score" you get when NPCs first meet you, based on beauty etc. As a Half-Orc I realized that was gonna be a problem in Tarant so I changed into nicer clothing before I even went into the bar. It makes a big difference, the humans don't treat you like a African American.

This, i forgot about the costume, it's one of the small things that makes the game so good.


Last playthrough I was a high CHA elf mage and it still happened. Being chucked out for behaving badly is realistic. Being attacked to the death by a whole pub of people for defending myself against an assailant is not

With UAP?
Although, elves are not very welcome in Tarant but it would never happen with a human (UAP) or an elf wearing a smoking (+20 reaction) if you don't do anything wrong and don't have a bad reputation in Tarant and/or terrible beauty/cha combo.

Everyone that played it extensively knows NPC behavior is a thing of the past if you play your cards right but it is a game where racism, reputation and reaction play an important role so you could get randomly molested if you have a high reputation in Tarant's slums before the bridge and with bad reaction/reputation/wrong race in the city.
 

NaturallyCarnivorousSheep

Albanian Deliberator Kang
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The game is unfinished, it was always obvious. Most of its problems come from that and stupid tech-demo tier design decisions - oh wow, you can travel through whole map without quick travel!!!, except it'd take you so long you would literally never want to do it - just imagine how much headache did it take to make it work, and how it doesn't amount to anything.
 

octavius

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It's a bit lame that a place like Stillwater can only be visited after the Dwarf king places it on the map. And quite annoying since I had traveled that area specifically looking for the town. Lazy design, using the easiest method of ensuring that the player does things in the right sequence?
 
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Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
OP's mom is a bit shit.

Arcanum is a classic for a reason. Is it perfect? NO. Nothing is. Try playing the black mountain clan part as a tecknological character if you want to rage hard for example. But this edgeposting comes around every few months/years. Why Arcanum is teh suck, 21 reasons. Why Fallout 3 is the best Fallout (yes there was an actual thread). Why Baldur's Gate is terrible.

We get it, you're contrarian. Goddamn edgelords edging for attention and Kodex Kool Kredits.
 

Falksi

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I missed it first time round, and find it very hit and miss. What it does well it does excellently, but I'm more in love with the idea of what it's trying to do than the actual way it goes about trying to do it.

It's really just about how much miss you can endure to get to the hit. If you've already played the game for 20 odd years, the miss isn't even an issue as you've already got your work arounds sorted.
 

octavius

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Everybody complains about the BMC. Personally I found the Wheel Clan and the Drege more annying. It's bigger and less easy to navigate. BMC is quite short, but I can see how it can be frustrating if you insist on doing it ASAP. When I met the first Ore Golem, I decided to retreat and explore other areas first.
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Everybody complains about the BMC. Personally I found the Wheel Clan and the Drege more annying. It's bigger and less easy to navigate. BMC is quite short, but I can see how it can be frustrating if you insist on doing it ASAP. When I met the first Ore Golem, I decided to retreat and explore other areas first.

You later on find arcane gear which damage proof or got acess to more powerful magicka and range weapon and IRC there were some nice quests in Wheel Clan so it was not as huge slog as BMC dungeon was.
 

jackofshadows

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Everybody complains about the BMC. Personally I found the Wheel Clan and the Drege more annying.
Complains usually comes from storyfags and they usually develop persuasion which allows you to skip Drege entirely.

curds that's what I thought. If you turn auto-attack off in options that situation shouldn't happen
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
My character (Half-Ogre Melee/Magic) is lvl 23 now, and the thing that bugs me most is not the combat (since I was mentally prepared for the worst combat since Ultima IV), but how NPCs behave. I mean how they suddenly will suicide themselves during dialogue, and how other NPCs will attack the player when you are attacked by the Moloch (sp?) fanatics in bars and inns.

It doesn't happen so much if at all if you don't pick the karma amplifier origin and if you don't piss off drunkards.
Dialog matter, it's a RPG with easy combat but still, you can't get away with insulting people while you're still at the bottom of the food chain.
I fucking love arcanum but this is a totally valid complaint. some assassin attacks you in a bar, then when you fight back, everyone joins in attacking you. it's retarded, no excuses.

It happens to me every time and i've never picked a karma amplifying background.

Do you have companions along, and do they strike first?

If someone enters combat against you but isn't the one who delivers the first strike (because your companions attack first or your weapon is faster), NPCs assume you are the aggressor.
 

InSight

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Let me preface this post by saying that I don't actually hate Arcanum. To me it is the quintessential 6/10, a game that despite being relatively lame is still worth playing, if only to get inspired by its shortcomings to do better. The prose is good and the game puts forward a lot of interesting ideas. Out of all RPGs I like though I like Arcanum the least by far. So allow me tear into this codex darling and explain to you why it bites...

...In short, Arcanum is about as good as it is shit and I'm glad that Troika is out of business and that everyone involved with Troika has continued to showcase why it failed in the first place.

Some points are valid but they are insignificant for Arcanum provided more Role playing mechanics/systems in the CRPG genre while no or very few games did before it and even after it. The main/significant/core aspects that make the genre stand out from others:the settings/world and its variety of character and their dynamics. The 1st importance that it is capable of providing them as can or cannot do, 0 and 1. Then one can judge/measure/evaluate how well these aspects are done if there is a game comparable to it. Many other arguments are faulty.
///////////////////////////////////////////////
>"You are a spectator, an errand boy without any substantial motivation."

Is fighting for their own "survival"/life/being or/and to be freed from the constant threat of killers, not a substantial motivation for the player's character? (this is despite the game mechanics and player's control making such threat moot/insignificant/weak)
substantial definition:
adjective
  1. Considerable in importance, value, degree, amount, or extent.
  2. Solidly built; strong.
  3. Ample; sustaining.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

>Virgil is the main fucking character, not you.
If Virgil is the main character then why the game does not end if he is killed or he can be left aside.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>"So if you insult someone they are justified in killing you? This isn't Albania. If I call that motherfucking constable a coward because he is then he really should not attempt to extrajudicially execute me, unless he's also insane. Same goes for Magnus... who will readily break your neck if you as much as insult his beard. This isn't even understandable behaviour by videogame standards. Once again, Arcanum fails miserably at immersion."

Why one should find it a surprise? There are many events/stories/instances of these happenings in our ancient history less alone in a fictional world portraying a primitive/lesser/older culture compared to ours.

Take animals, cats for example who on a mere passing on territory can result in long constants hissing if not an outright fight with claws and fangs. Consider an insult as transgression/threat/invasion on ones territory and add the tools, the deadly weapons human can have will result in events where one dies to insulting others honor/reputation.

examples:
  • In Greek mythology there is a story where a mother of many laughed/insulted/mocked a mother who had only birthed one. That very one man in response hunted down and killed all her(10 if memory serves) children.
  • During the exodus an Egyptian who joined the Hebrew people who due to a fight insulted Yahuha/YHWH/יהוה . For that he was put to death, executed."So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven" Matthew/מתתיה/matityah 12:31

note:Ancient Greek/Helenic people emphasize the importance of honor(kleos)/reputation, likewise others, such as the vikings and samurai cultures.
One can conclude it was often a standard for these with strength/power/position.
When one insults, one is making an attack,a harm upon's one's reputation. "Character assassination" such as what been done to Trump(such as the orange skin), are insults or serves the objective insults has harming/attacking/injuring reputation/honor which sways other opinion.

It became rarer, happen less often and in hidden/indirect/under-sruface level for we live in time and places where the teaching of Yahusha/יהושע that go against advice's such "guard your reputation with your life" and which emphasizes kindness, mercy, forgiveness(So that Yahuha/YHWH/יהוה will be likewise towards these who are) became widespread.

This an instance which Arcanum does not fail at immersion unless one is ignorant of how mankind behaved in ancient times and at times still do, such as in bar-fights.

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Another point at which Arcanum succeed at immersion, based on your playthrough , is showing one what its like to be an hated/despised do to their race. In that world, Orcs are known and regard to be violent and so are their offspring's , naturally if a fight break out and a half-orc is involved, the surrounding people would by default/automatically/prejudice assume the half-orc is at fault. By Blackshirt description such event as happened and been supported by the games mechanic/rule/system. Who said, or assumed it would be a pleasant experience? but what games are capable of providing such varied race based experience accurately and believably portrayed(based on the context of its world) compared to games before it and after it.

/////////////////////////////////////////////
>"Second of all, it commits another cardinal sin: there is no good villain..."
Do games such as Doom ,Duke3d, Talos Princple and Age of Empires and other renowned games, had a good villain? Were they worse as games because of it?
>"The player must be given a personal reason to defeat the villain and he must learn to hate him."
Is an attack, a harm on the character's life should not be a reason for the character to defeat and hate?

What of evil characters?If their is one villain, how would such advice applies to them if the character admire/adore/like the villain's deeds?

There is also the issue of personal, as in person (face to face). How would a villain trapped in another world for being powerful, be able to do that while at the same time plotting/making his escape?
*in Arcanum there is an instance/cut-scene where the villain appears and threatens the player character through an illusion/projection.

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>"Why are ships not affected? Don't they rely on the physical law of buoyancy? How come they don't sink as soon as a wizard steps foot on one?"
"wizards are not allowed to come to close to a steam engine, because their magic chernobyl rays interfere with it and stop it from functioning."(stop functioning does not equal sinking)

One can fill the gaps, patching them with logic. Incase of Shrouded Hills' generator machine, the machine is portrayed as very large so size is a factor. A wizard can be allowed on the train but not on the 1st traincar/cart but on the last which visualy (if memory not fualty) is out of 2 carts total. It also takes for wizard to be able to cast higher level spells before some shopkeepers would require them to leave. So size, distance ,frequencies, time and strength can provide some explanation.

Such question can applied to many works/games to tear the holes in it wider such as :
"why do slash & bruise wounds do not appear on exposed skin of a bikini chain-mail warrior chick?"
"why when i shoot through an eyeball of a human character, he doesn't die or affected by it?"
"why are friendly npc are not harmed by my bullets while hostiles npc do and im supposed to escort them? (who here needs the protection?)
"why harm and injury represented by hit points while maintaining top physical health unless they drop to 0?"

Many such question can be answered by: This is the game world, this is its rules, this is what its creators/developer/makers decided or/and were capable of at the time and given tools.

//////////////////////////////////////////
>"Arcanum is objectively a harbinger of decline because it introduced crafting, which is not implemented well."

Introduction in this context implies that Arcanum(2001) was the 1st to involve crafting mechanics. Ultimate online (1997) seems to predate it. It would be not far fetched if their are even older CRPG games with crafting mechanics.
From a mechanical perceptive: if works, it was implanted well.
How many games are there that do portray crafting as realistic/believable way/make sense and similar to how we do or did in our world?

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>The soundtrack is also so fucking terrible, like holy shit. Are Americans not aware that there were other instruments beside stringed instruments in the 19th century? And why does it sound so melancholic? Am I dying of tuberculosis or what? Companions are garbage as well and badly voiced for the most part.
:nocountryforshitposters: a grasping of straws to demean the works of others.(this can summarize the entire opening post)


While im not expert on voice acting, it is Arcanum's high point for they help highlight the characters, provide a subtle info and when compared to many of English voice over in JRPG are done skillfully. They depict fitting tune and emotion.
//////////////////////////////////////////
If Arcanum is compared to bodily execration which is produced automatically and even multiply times a day, then why do we not have thousands or more games like Arcanum?!

How many games are their that are comparable to it? That has or providing the things that happen & can be done on both scales:
From minor/micro/small such as having character go through windows(how many games have that depict that systematically?) or if one shrink its character and make him naked and talk to NPC's, they would respond differently(how many games go to such length to portray such detail and far-sight on player's action).

To major/macro/significant ones from racial and physical looks affecting reactions, the relation which is role-playing to having a the game settings/world portrayed mechanically/systematicly (contrast to scripts which are 1 time/specific occurrence) in its magic & technology conflicting with each other.(major/significante based on its contribution to the genre and not based whether its needed/essential to complete to game)

It is why "Arcanum of Steamwork and Magica" is among the top CRPG's and is still recommended and mentioned and can be discussed in depth and detail instead of many other games in its genre.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
To Blackshirt and other who think alike, if Arcanum is indeed a bad work, than I challenge you to produce a game providing what Arcanum provides both visually and mechanically while at the same time, side by side developing a game akin to Vampire the Masquerade bloodlines within their time constraints. Both to be of the similar quality or superior to it. If what Arcanum has been compared to is true, than it should be an easy task made easier with the tools available today.
 
Last edited:

Humbaba

Arcane
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
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Location
SADAT HQ
Let me preface this post by saying that I don't actually hate Arcanum. To me it is the quintessential 6/10, a game that despite being relatively lame is still worth playing, if only to get inspired by its shortcomings to do better. The prose is good and the game puts forward a lot of interesting ideas. Out of all RPGs I like though I like Arcanum the least by far. So allow me tear into this codex darling and explain to you why it bites...

...In short, Arcanum is about as good as it is shit and I'm glad that Troika is out of business and that everyone involved with Troika has continued to showcase why it failed in the first place.

Some points are valid but they are insignificant for Arcanum provided more Role playing mechanics/systems in the CRPG genre while no or very few games did before it and even after it. The main/significant/core aspects that make the genre stand out from others:the settings/world and its variety of character and their dynamics. The 1st importance that it is capable of providing them as can or cannot do, 0 and 1. Then one can judge/measure/evaluate how well these aspects are done if there is a game comparable to it. Many other arguments are faulty.
///////////////////////////////////////////////
>"You are a spectator, an errand boy without any substantial motivation."

Is fighting for their own "survival"/life/being or/and to be freed from the constant threat of killers, not a substantial motivation for the player's character? (this is despite the game mechanics and player's control making such threat moot/insignificant/weak)
substantial definition:
adjective
  1. Considerable in importance, value, degree, amount, or extent.
  2. Solidly built; strong.
  3. Ample; sustaining.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

>Virgil is the main fucking character, not you.
If Virgil is the main character then why the game does not end if he is killed or he can be left aside.
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>"So if you insult someone they are justified in killing you? This isn't Albania. If I call that motherfucking constable a coward because he is then he really should not attempt to extrajudicially execute me, unless he's also insane. Same goes for Magnus... who will readily break your neck if you as much as insult his beard. This isn't even understandable behaviour by videogame standards. Once again, Arcanum fails miserably at immersion."

Why one should find it a surprise? There are many events/stories/instances of these happenings in our ancient history less alone in a fictional world portraying a primitive/lesser/older culture compared to ours.

Take animals, cats for example who on a mere passing on territory can result in long constants hissing if not an outright fight with claws and fangs. Consider an insult as transgression/threat/invasion on ones territory and add the tools, the deadly weapons human can have will result in events where one dies to insulting others honor/reputation.

examples:
  • In Greek mythology there is a story where a mother of many laughed/insulted/mocked a mother who had only birthed one. That very one man in response hunted down and killed all her(10 if memory serves) children.
  • During the exodus an Egyptian who joined the Hebrew people who due to a fight insulted Yahuha/YHWH/יהוה . For that he was put to death, executed."So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven" Matthew/מתתיה/matityah 12:31

note:Ancient Greek/Helenic people emphasize the importance of honor(kleos)/reputation, likewise others, such as the vikings and samurai cultures.
One can conclude it was often a standard for these with strength/power/position.
When one insults, one is making an attack,a harm upon's one's reputation. "Character assassination" such as what been done to Trump(such as the orange skin), are insults or serves the objective insults has harming/attacking/injuring reputation/honor which sways other opinion.

It became rarer, happen less often and in hidden/indirect/under-sruface level for we live in time and places where the teaching of Yahusha/יהושע that go against advice's such "guard your reputation with your life" and which emphasizes kindness, mercy, forgiveness(So that Yahuha/YHWH/יהוה will be likewise towards these who are) became widespread.

This an instance which Arcanum does not fail at immersion unless one is ignorant of how mankind behaved in ancient times and at times still do, such as in bar-fights.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Another point at which Arcanum succeed at immersion, based on your playthrough , is showing one what its like to be an hated/despised do to their race. In that world, Orcs are known and regard to be violent and so are their offspring's , naturally if a fight break out and a half-orc is involved, the surrounding people would by default/automatically/prejudice assume the half-orc is at fault. By Blackshirt description such event as happened and been supported by the games mechanic/rule/system. Who said, or assumed it would be a pleasant experience? but what games are capable of providing such varied race based experience accurately and believably portrayed(based on the context of its world) compared to games before it and after it.

/////////////////////////////////////////////
>"Second of all, it commits another cardinal sin: there is no good villain..."
Do games such as Doom ,Duke3d, Talos Princple and Age of Empires and other renowned games, had a good villain? Were they worse as games because of it?
>"The player must be given a personal reason to defeat the villain and he must learn to hate him."
Is an attack, a harm on the character's life should not be a reason for the character to defeat and hate?

What of evil characters?If their is one villain, how would such advice applies to them if the character admire/adore/like the villain's deeds?

There is also the issue of personal, as in person (face to face). How would a villain trapped in another world for being powerful, be able to do that while at the same time plotting/making his escape?
*in Arcanum there is an instance/cut-scene where the villain appears and threatens the player character through an illusion/projection.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>"Why are ships not affected? Don't they rely on the physical law of buoyancy? How come they don't sink as soon as a wizard steps foot on one?"
"wizards are not allowed to come to close to a steam engine, because their magic chernobyl rays interfere with it and stop it from functioning."(stop functioning does not equal sinking)

One can fill the gaps, patching them with logic. Incase of Shrouded Hills' generator machine, the machine is portrayed as very large so size is a factor. A wizard can be allowed on the train but not on the 1st traincar/cart but on the last which visualy (if memory not fualty) is out of 2 carts total. It also takes for wizard to be able to cast higher level spells before some shopkeepers would require them to leave. So size, distance ,frequencies, time and strength can provide some explanation.

Such question can applied to many works/games to tear the holes in it wider such as :
"why do slash & bruise wounds do not appear on exposed skin of a bikini chain-mail warrior chick?"
"why when i shoot through an eyeball of a human character, he doesn't die or affected by it?"
"why are friendly npc are not harmed by my bullets while hostiles npc do and im supposed to escort them? (who here needs the protection?)
"why harm and injury represented by hit points while maintaining top physical health unless they drop to 0?"

Many such question can be answered by: This is the game world, this is its rules, this is what its creators/developer/makers decided or/and were capable of at the time and given tools.
//////////////////////////////////////////
>"Arcanum is objectively a harbinger of decline because it introduced crafting, which is not implemented well."

Introduction in this context implies that Arcanum(2001) was the 1st to involve crafting mechanics. Ultimate online (1997) seems to predate it. It would be not far fetched if their are even older CRPG games with crafting mechanics.
From a mechanical perceptive: if works, it was implanted well.
How many games are there that do portray crafting as realistic/believable way/make sense and similar to how we do or did in our world?
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

>The soundtrack is also so fucking terrible, like holy shit. Are Americans not aware that there were other instruments beside stringed instruments in the 19th century? And why does it sound so melancholic? Am I dying of tuberculosis or what? Companions are garbage as well and badly voiced for the most part.
:nocountryforshitposters: a grasping of straws to demean the works of others.(this can summarize the entire opening post)

while im not expert on voice acting, it is Arcanum's high point for they help highlight the characters, provide a subtle info and when compared to many of these caragorized as JRPG are done skillfully. They depict fitting tune and emotion.
//////////////////////////////////////////
If Arcanum is compared to bodily execration which is produced automatically and even multiply times a day, then why do we not have thousands or more games like Arcanum?!

How many games are their that are comparable to it? That has or providing the things that happen & can be done on both scales:
From minor/micro/small such as having character go through windows(how many games have that depict that systematically?) or if one shrink its character and make him naked and talk to NPC's, they would respond differently(how many games go to such length to portray such detail and far-sight on player's action).

To major/macro/significant ones from racial and physical looks affecting reactions, the relation which is role-playing to having a the game settings/world portrayed mechanically/systematicly (contrast to scripts which are 1 time/specific occurrence) in its magic & technology conflicting with each other.(major/significante based on its contribution to the genre and not based whether its needed/essential to complete to game)

It is why "Arcanum of Steamwork and Magica" is among the top CRPG's and is still recommended and mentioned and can be discussed in depth and detail instead of many other games in its genre.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
To Blackshirt and other who think alike, if Arcanum is indeed a bad work, than I challenge you to produce a game providing what Arcanum provides both visually and mechanically while at the same time, side by side developing a game akin to Vampire the Masquerade bloodlines within their time constraints. Both to be of the similar quality or superior to it. If what Arcanum has been compared to is true, than it should be an easy task made easier with the tools available today.

8a7.png
 

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