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Crispy™ Are game controllers crap?

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
MDYv-UFM0-Ln-Bu-Zw.png
What the fuck? Is that actually how you hold a controller? :lol:
That's not me, but yes, sometimes I have to, and this is widespread. Tell me how YOU control the camera/aim and use the face buttons (possibly to dodge or dash) at the same time. Almost thirty years of this shit. Well, again, games used to have fixed cams, auto-aim and no shooting to get around this. The developers KNEW it. Funny how God of War, when it still had fixed cams, had platforming puzzles and stuff, and then when they switched to the over the shoulder cam that forced the primary action buttons to the shoulders and triggers, the puzzles became about staring at patterns, and much less intuitive for it.

I have had to do weird contortions like this at times, but generally I won't unless I absolutely have to for some reason (usually it has to do with some BS QTE mechanic or something). I'll aim the camera, let go of the right stick and continue using my thumb for the face buttons. I have enough gaming awareness/experience to continue moving appropriately even if the thing flies off screen for a second and I need to move my thumb back to the stick.

The bigger issue for me is when you need to use both the bumper and trigger (on XB controllers (the R/L 1 and 2s on the PS controllers)) together. Normally, I use my index fingers for both, so if I can't easily do that and have to at least start considering or trying to use my index and middle fingers for it with only my ring fingers and pinkies on the back of the controller, that feels weird and makes me hate everything.
 

Ash

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5,539
They're good, though it does depend on the game.

I would rather not play platformers, racing games and many other genres with mouse & keyboard.
I would rather not play most 6DoF space shooters, or multiplayer arena shooters with a controller.

Playing ANY game with one form of input or the other is still perfectly doable, though sometimes some tweaking may be in order. About the only time one absolutely must use a particular input is multiplayer arena shooters as you will just get wiped up the floor if you don't use a mouse, since everyone else is using one. Ultimately both forms of input are very competent, and have their pros and cons.

Mouse + Keyboard: great for games that involve typing, large quantities of input, mouse is great for precision.
Controller: optimal comfort, pressure sensitive buttons allow some additional nuance to mechanics, left stick is great for movement, vibration feedback is cool.

I am constantly switching between both, have my entire life, though my left wrist is not in the best shape and keyboard play can sometimes put strain on it.

Also an interesting thing to note is controllers are designed specifically for gaming, and console devs can make use of that if they're inclined. That's where many of its pros reside. Mouse & keyboard are not designed for gaming (unless custom), and PC devs have to design for stock keyboards. It just so happens that despite not even being designed for gaming, it comes out with some pretty significant gaming pros regardless. But controller pros should not be underestimated.
 
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Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,712
Controllers suck.
>but muh analog sticks
Offer benefit only in a very niche set of circumstances, and usually one where specialized peripherals (wheel & pedals or HOTAS) would do the job much better anyways, such as driving. In the vast majority of circumstances it's going to be more beneficial to have the instant full response of a key press than the delayed ramp-up of an analog stick. That's keyboard vs controller. The mouse on the other hand is completely superior to an analog stick without even any niche circumstances where the stick would have an edge.
 

KeighnMcDeath

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What the fuck? Is that actually how you hold a controller? :lol:
That’s a bloody gamepad not a joystick.
You know, the JOYSTICK that looks like a dick with a button on top and/or maybe a button or two on the base?

Atari-2600-Joystick.jpg



wico-the-boss-joystick-controller-50-2030-for-atari-commodore-64-vic-20-boxed-1.jpg


PXN-2113-Wired-Gamepad-Flight-Stick.jpg



A “controller” I guess is the OTHER category of WTF is this device:


10.jpg

Are those hitachi magic wand vibrators for a sorority party or fairchild channel F (CHANNEL FUN not CHANNEL FUCK) controllers?


Exhibit004.jpg

Oh colecovision how some hate thee.


controllers1.jpg


controller.jpg

More dialing in controllers for intellivision and intellivision II.

And there are more of the old eras.
 

Bad Sector

Arcane
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I've made the thread specifically to see if anyone enjoys *shooting* with the controller, since I'm currently trudging through Death Stranding and it's a fucking chore to aim there. And yet, there are whole franchises of shooters which have originated on controller-operated consoles, Halo being the biggest. I can generously assume that some genres benefit from the controller.

Assuming common types of games where you control a character, moving on a traditional dual stick gamepad is more precise because of analog input. On the other hand aiming is harder because you do not have direct control of the camera's rotation but instead you control the camera's rotation speed. You can use the strengths of each to accomodate for some of the weakness though, e.g. on KBM you can rotate the camera with the mouse to better align the WASD motion axes with the angle you want to move and on a gamepad you can move your character to better align your aim to your the target.

But in practice it isn't so much one being better than another for specific genres, it is really more about comfort - gamepad is (or can be) more comfortable than KBM and it is easier to use a gamepad from the couch or lying back on an armchair than KBM.

Of course these are all in theory, in practice some games are designed with one or the other in mind. For example the Cyberpunk 2077's UI was clearly designed with a mouse in mind because even with a gamepad you control a virtual mouse cursor on screen and "click" with the shoulder buttons, making the UI very awkward to use with the gamepad.

Also FWIW there is some skill element in gamepad. The first time i tried to use a gamepad for a first person game (trying to play FEAR on the xbox360 my father had in his house) i couldn't even keep the camera straight ahead and even when i got used to moving (which was *much* later after i bought my own gamepad), i was always running everywhere and often in screen-oriented cardinal directions as if i was using WASD (nowadays i adjust the speed on the fly when needed and "glide" the left stick around for smoother movement). Actually when i decided to implement gamepad support in an engine i worked on at the time i had the engine smoothly auto-level the aiming, thinking how smart i was to do this user friendly thing when in reality it was my lack of skill (in recent years i tried that engine demo and found the auto-leveling very annoying). Nowadays i can play almost any game easily with the gamepad (assuming it has proper control) - i don't really even need aim assist or auto aiming (though i appreciate it if a game has it). Of course aiming with the mouse is much easier, faster and precise but i don't have the negative reaction to gamepads for 3D games i used to have 10+ years ago (at the time i still had gamepads and had them for years but i mainly used them for 2D games).

A “controller” I guess is the OTHER category of WTF is this device:

Gamepads and joysticks are subsets of controllers, they aren't some separate type of device. The wikipedia article on them actually does a great job on describing (some of) the different types of controllers.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
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Gaming on a Wii remote or w/e must be taxing as all hell?

I have a nes to usb converter for pc/laptop. Maybe a little exercise rpg gaming is in order.

Those walking simulators will be nothing now as I powerpad my play to victory.

But for them fights in skyrim on my monk….



Sadly this video doesn’t talk about the Lip Stik much but it does talk of Echelon


http://pdxcug.org/meetings/02-05/


YOPXAU4.jpeg


P8Q6IlQ.jpeg

Damn rare to find a full set
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/c64-commodore-64-game-echelon-107319087

IMG_0216.jpeg


IMG_0217.jpeg
 
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ind33d

Educated
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Jun 23, 2020
Messages
621
You should've listened to Lord Gaben back when you had the chance

5swqwc.jpeg
it's true, i played death stranding with steam controller and it was a religious experience. also if steam controller became standard then flight sims could become mass-market again. it even makes FPS better. i played halo infinite with steam controller and it was like having an aimbot. any open-world game that requires a button to run is objectively better on steam controller, binding sprint to the back paddles just works
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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What the fuck? Is that actually how you hold a controller? :lol:
That’s a bloody gamepad not a joystick.
You know, the JOYSTICK that looks like a dick with a button on top and/or maybe a button or two on the base?

Atari-2600-Joystick.jpg



wico-the-boss-joystick-controller-50-2030-for-atari-commodore-64-vic-20-boxed-1.jpg


PXN-2113-Wired-Gamepad-Flight-Stick.jpg



A “controller” I guess is the OTHER category of WTF is this device:


10.jpg

Are those hitachi magic wand vibrators for a sorority party or fairchild channel F (CHANNEL FUN not CHANNEL FUCK) controllers?


Exhibit004.jpg

Oh colecovision how some hate thee.


controllers1.jpg


controller.jpg

More dialing in controllers for intellivision and intellivision II.

And there are more of the old eras.
Hey grampa, video games evolved passed the 8 bit NES. You know, the Nintendo.

There were Sega systems, Sony systems, Microsoft systems... no they're not all Nintendos!

Ffs, I'm leaving you in a home, you dust collecting fossil.
 

Modron

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Messages
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Some autists use two flightsticks, foot pedals, and a head tracking camera just to play star citizen.
 

Jack Of Owls

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Location
Massachusettes
A controller is a necessity if you're a couch monkey. I use a DualSense DS5 these days, and the hybrid-controller/mouse scheme mentioned by someone earlier. Gets me through stuff like Arcane Dimensions just fine. I like the analog movement of controllers as opposed to the non-analog WASD KB. Helps with the creeping along or looking over ledges in these games.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
2,206
I bought a Nacon controller and it feels way better than the official xbox one, but it's a bit smaller so if you have ogre hands you might not like it. It does feel smaller than average but I don't mind.
The sticks feel better than the xbox as well.
 

pOcHa

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Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I bought a Nacon controller and it feels way better than the official xbox one, but it's a bit smaller so if you have ogre hands you might not like it. It does feel smaller than average but I don't mind.
The sticks feel better than the xbox as well.
tranny hands
 

pOcHa

Arcane
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Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You should've listened to Lord Gaben back when you had the chance

5swqwc.jpeg
how does that solve this:
What the fuck? Is that actually how you hold a controller? :lol:
If you wanna move, control the camera, attack, dodge and heal, all at once, you have no other option than to do this abomination, IIRC this (or similar) is how I held the controller while playing Dark Souls.
?
 

BLOBERT

FUCKING SLAYINGN IT BROS
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BRO
A controller is a necessity if you're a couch monkey. I use a DualSense DS5 these days, and the hybrid-controller/mouse scheme mentioned by someone earlier. Gets me through stuff like Arcane Dimensions just fine. I like the analog movement of controllers as opposed to the non-analog WASD KB. Helps with the creeping along or looking over ledges in these games.
BRO YOUR TALKING TO PCTARDS

THEY DONT HAVE ENOUGH BRIANS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WROTE
 

Ezekiel

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
4,274
You should've listened to Lord Gaben back when you had the chance

5swqwc.jpeg
how does that solve this:
What the fuck? Is that actually how you hold a controller? :lol:
If you wanna move, control the camera, attack, dodge and heal, all at once, you have no other option than to do this abomination, IIRC this (or similar) is how I held the controller while playing Dark Souls.
?
Buttons on the back that you can macro the most important face button functions to.

I bought my Steam Controller for about five dollars when they sold off their inventory. It remains inside its box. Find it too weird.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
11,188
I played Hellgate London with a fairchild controller with limited keyboard/mouse support. It is doable. I’ve probably bought too many third party bluetooth and cables Xbox or PlayStation gamepads. Turns out I hardly ever use them. I keep going back to my old saitek genesis looking pad.

I was going to get a Jaguar controller (actually a modern remake) and get the hookup to usb adapter. Oh numpad ls on controllers too sexy.
 

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