Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Are games art?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Vlajdermen, Mar 26, 2019.

?

Я games art?

  1. No

    21.7%
  2. Who the fuck cares

    40.8%
  3. Only if labeled as such by Janjetina

    1.7%
  4. It is impossible to know because there is no clear definition of what art is

    6.7%
  5. To be fair, you have to have a very high iq to understand games as an art form

    17.5%
  6. Only The Last of Us and Dad of War

    5.0%
  7. Slava Rodu (I don't get that Kingcomrade meme)

    6.7%
  1. TheBiopunkSlav Liturgist

    TheBiopunkSlav
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Azine
    Was Roger Ebert right?
     
    • Participation Award x 5
    • Old x 4
    • it is a mystery x 2
    • retadred x 2
    • Doggy x 2
    • Funny x 1
    • Shit x 1
    • :M x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. Jacob Changed title because of Crispy Patron

    Jacob
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,891
    Location:
    City
    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    With the right mindset, gambling is an art.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • nice nice x 2
    • Cheers!! Cheers!! x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. Alfgart Augur Patron

    Alfgart
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Messages:
    269
    Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Games are not art. But some elements of games can have artistic merit
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Shit Shit x 1
    • Balanced Balanced x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. TheHeroOfTime Arcane

    TheHeroOfTime
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    2,081
    Who cares
     
    • Agree x 3
    • Yes x 2
    • Brofist x 1
    • hopw roewur ne x 1
    • it is a mystery x 1
    • retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    5,202
    Roger Ebert wrote a favorable review of Cosmology of Kyoto in 1994. :M

    It seems that Ebert found the game artistic and, dare I say, immersive. +M

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. bataille Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    bataille
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    1,046
    Half the films Roger Ebert deemed worthy weren't art.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
    • Edgy Edgy x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. DemonKing Arcane

    DemonKing
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,670
    I'd say they have the potential to be - mobile games and other shovelware obviously have no pretentions to art and other games are often pushed out the door before they're ready, which can detract from their artistic impact. You would never confuse endless FiFA or Call of Duty games as art - they exist to meet shareholder's needs and nothing more. Sometimes though you can have the happy coincidence of a game that is not only fun to play but has artistic merits of it's own with regards to art, sound, music, story etc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    ^ Top  
  8. laclongquan Arcane

    laclongquan
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,868,071
    Location:
    Searching for my kidnapped sister
    That sucker bit more than he can chew and people challenge him to chew, and then he quit. But no, he wouldnt change his mind or opinion and still declare loudly games can not be art.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. catfood AGAIN

    catfood
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    7,286
    Location:
    Nirvana for mice
    There are so many things labeled as art or with art in their name that it doesn't even mean anything anymore. Martial arts, The Art of War, The Art of Love, The Art of the Deal, culinary arts, pick up artists, etc, etc, etc. It's not that exclusive of a club as people think.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Makes you think... Makes you think... x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. bataille Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    bataille
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    1,046
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    8,649
    Location:
    Flowery Land
    Yes but art isn't a mark of quality: There's lots of shit art. Art is a work made for entertainment, nothing more.
     
    • Brofist x 5
    • Disagree x 2
    • :M x 2
    • incline x 1
    • Yes x 1
    • Balanced x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. Monk Arcane

    Monk
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,385
    Location:
    The Jungle
    If art refers to anything made involving creativity, then they are works of art.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. ItsChon Resident Zoomer Patron

    ItsChon
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    3,262
    Location:
    Երևան
    Games aren't art.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Shit Shit x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    20,072
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    This and this.

    Software can be written that counts as art (though we haven't seen much of it) but you can't call it art and a game at the same time.
     
    • Disagree x 3
    • FAKE NEWS x 1
    • [citation needed] x 1
    • what? x 1
    • :M x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    17,755
    For what it's worth — SCOTUS justice Antonin Scalia seemed to imply they were (at least partly) a mix of literature and art in his majority opinion ruling against videogame censorship.
     
    • Salute Salute x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
    ^ Top  
  16. yellowcake Arcane

    yellowcake
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,822
    Location:
    Alas! in my skull
    Is pottery art? Stage performance? Comic book? These questions have been considered by philosophers for millenia. IMHO only way of approaching these is accepting or criticising their arrangements.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. theSavant Self-Ejected

    Self-Ejected
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,009
    Yeah... back in my childhood I always associcated art with something "nice". Whether in looks (pictures), or sound (music), it should be "nice".

    Later I found out that this isn't the case. "Art" nowadays can be everything or nothing. I also recall that day back in school, where some "artists" visited the school to teach the art teachers about art. And they said "it's art, if you achieve to put a toilet into an art museum" (and maybe with some "explanations"). My teacher was disgusted. But yeah, that's it. Everything "creative" and with some "explanations" can be "art" nowadays.
     
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. taxalot Gone forever. Patron

    taxalot
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8,502
    Location:
    Far from here.
    Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    Is shitposting art ?
     
    • Yes Yes x 14
    ^ Top  
  19. Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez Arcane

    Tarantulos-Eduardo-Sanchez
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2018
    Messages:
    3,257
    Location:
    Cada juego de fantasía hecho
    What can change the nature of art?
     
    • it is a mystery x 2
    • Prestigious x 1
    • When words are not enough x 1
    • Creative x 1
    • popamole x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. Gerrard Arcane

    Gerrard
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    8,255
    Trolling is a art.
     
    • Old x 2
    • Participation Award x 1
    • Yes x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Apostle Hand Savant Possibly Retarded

    Apostle Hand
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2018
    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Mordor
    games have potential to be art, but - more often than not - that potential is left unused.
     
    • Agree x 1
    • Whatever shit you posted didn't load x 1
    • WTF am I reading x 1
    • retadred x 1
    • Shit x 1
    • what? x 1
    • Balanced x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Egosphere Magister

    Egosphere
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Messages:
    1,406
    Location:
    Hibernia
    Art has a tendency to stay around for a long time. Most gamers of today would consider games from the 90s to be utter trash because muh graphics. This doesn't affect other mediums to the same extent. 300 year old paintings are still art, even if you can pump out flashier images with a graphics tablet and a copy of photoshop today.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. markec Twitterbot Patron

    markec
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    18,277
    Location:
    Croatia
    Codex 2012 Dead State Project: Eternity Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Looking at the standards for art these days, I have no doubt that games are art too.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny x 3
    • Agree x 2
    • Despair x 2
    • decline x 1
    • Creative x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. The Great ThunThun How DARE you!? Patron

    The Great ThunThun
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    Messages:
    681
    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Subjects become art when there is a structure to them which is communicable. This structure must be unique to that particular subject. For games, that structure is the player agency, i.e. that the player can insert their actions into the game and can have tangible influence. In that sense, games are well on their way to becoming art as designers are able to fill the mechanics, the presentation of the games to their capacity to communicate ideas specifically unique to games and not generically associated with visual or written media. Examples of such things are visually communicable C&C, attention to "immersive" mechanics etc. The fact that these are done *badly* is exactly analogous to other arts which can also be *executed* badly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  25. DJOGamer PT Arcane

    DJOGamer PT
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    3,728
    Location:
    Lusitânia
    They have the potential as to be art, like every other medium.
    The main problems are:
    1. Modern Art is absolute shit - so it's highly unlikely for something artistic to come out from a still very young medium in a age where people with actual knowledge of art are rare sight;
    2. Again videogames are a very recent medium, so the criteria for which they can be artistically evaluated is not well defined (and due to the above problem, proper characterization won't happen any time soon);
    3. Most developers that want to make artistic games (specially western ones), are ashamed by the fact they had to turn to videogames to ''express themselves''; this is quite clear as they never try to make actual games but cinematic/novel experiences and are more focused on delivering "muh feelz" than actual gameplay and content (you can even see on interviews that those kinds of devs never give out other games as sources of inspiration, they always refer either to books or movies, and the few times they do say other games it's also artsy-farsty games like the ones they are trying to make); they are the same people that think pure action games are preventing the medium from being taken "seriously" and becoming ''high art'', so they are people that in general don't like videogames.
    4. And finally they always try to make their games artistic not by playing to the medium's strengths and unique traits (that is the interactivity and reactivity) but rather by the visuals, script and audio (the strengths of other mediums)

    Ultimately I would take a good, fun and challenging game that isn't afraid of being gamey and has very little artistic value. Over a serious, well written, "artistic" game with shallow mechanics and no replayability. Every time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.