Aren't bolas and nets a bit op?

[Gangrelrumbler]

Yes I know they exist to let weak characters defeat stronger ones with some strategy but as they stand now, they are a low level, super-cheap item that is also powerful as hell all the way to the endgame. Logically speaking there is no reason for anyone not to carry a net/bolas around just to fuck the player up. The hardest fight in my play-through besides the boss were a couple of mobsters, one of which had bolas. Before someone asks, the same argument cannot be made for bombs because not everyone is a skilled alchemist. Shouldn't they require a couple of skillpoints to be used? It would sure explain why doesn't anyone just spam them every time they get a chance.

 

[PlanHex]

I'm pretty sure bolas depend on Throwing for hit-chance. Only nets are always 100% for everyone. Apart from that, I reluctantly agree.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I'm pretty sure bolas depend on Throwing for hit-chance. Only nets are always 100% for everyone. Apart from that, I reluctantly agree.

Checked it right now. I had 1 in throwing and a 75/100% chance to hit with bolas, put some points into throwing and nothing changed.

 

[PlanHex]

Huh, that's odd. Could've sworn it wasn't always like that. Or maybe I just thought it was, because they seem to have the throwing passive effect.

 

[Niektory]

IIRC the hit chance used to be based on your Dexterity and Throwing. Not sure why they changed it.

 

[Shadowfang]

Bolas are OP but the game is balanced around them, if that makes any sense.
My less optimal combat builds rely heavily on them to beat the Champion Arena. And besides him i don't recall, right now, using them with anyone else.

The bolas and nets thc was changed so that any build can use them.
Nets are now 100% and bolas 75% or something. I guess this was to solve the issue of people reloading every time they failed casting a net at the first turn.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Bolas are OP but the game is balanced around them, if that makes any sense.
My less optimal combat builds rely heavily on them to beat the Champion Arena. And besides him i don't recall, right now, using them with anyone else.
The bolas and nets thc was changed so that any build can use them.
Nets are now 100% and bolas 75% or something. I guess this was to solve the issue of people reloading every time they failed casting a net at the first turn.

Yes I know, I wrote it in the first post. My point is that they make gameworld much less believable as they are now. IMO just making player learn how to use them from some retired gladiator NPC would solve the issue. Though to be honest it would also make first fights of Assassins/Gladiators much harder. It just bugs me that a game which strives so hard for realism (no HP gain, no supernatural powers) leaves-out something as noticeable.

 

[Shadowfang]

Remove bolas to the head and the crossbow knockdown, balance the game accordingly and AoD would be better for it.

Edit: Even if you would require skill or stat to use the them effectively, the bolas would still be a very out of place item because of how game changing it is on success.
I can live with nets the way they are. But bolas can be a death sentence on the very first turn.

 

[Elhoim]

A few comments:

- The way we implemented nets is actually not the way it was used by gladiators (they would actually never let hold of it, tying them to their wrist: http://www.tribunesandtriumphs.org/gladiators/retiarii.htm). Following the way we are using it, it's kinda silly to dodge or even block it, plus it became too much of a chance game. From a design standpoint, in general I prefer more predictable, balanced effects instead of "If this hits the fight is easy, if it doesn't, it's impossible."
- Which leads to bolas, that yes, they are quite a battle changer, but they are quite rare, plus the non-critical effect is not very good.
- Throwing modifes the chance of a critical effect, which is a much stronger version of it.
- If we would have strived for realism, we should have been a lot more restrictive on item weight and size (forget about carrying 10 nets), which would have balanced stronger effects but diminished the "RPG fun".
- The main issue when the bolas head or knockdown are used on you is the single player part, since as it was said, with 3-4 guys attacking you is a death sentence.

I'll look into the balancing.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

@Eloim
You don't understand. My problem is not that they are strong from the game-play perspective, the problem is that they trigger my inner autism because from the logical point of view everyone should use them since they are easy to use, cheap to make and deadly everyone should have one or two. They are basically like guns. Perhaps but an NPC saying "most civilized men disregard these simple, yet effective weapons and never learn how to use them properly, I'm glad you are not one of them".

As for balancing and the infamous 4-men gang-bang perhaps adding a rare/expensive/hard to use item which nullifies the effects once could solve the issue. Wrist knife or something like that?

 

[Tigranes]

Nets are dependent on throwing, bolas seem to always be 75% or 100% - though I've seen them miss at 100%, so that might be a weird bug.

Elhoim bolas and nets aren't very rare: you have enough to use one each on every tough fight in the game where you can use them, i.e. you could use them to basically win the latter half of the arena. I don't think the Retiarii would have dominated the gladiator fights, for instance.

Bolas are a death sentence for many PCs so that forces you to disable the ones with bolas first, which is OK. Nets are not a death sentence necessarily.

 

[mushaden]

afaik Bolas are 75% thc for choking and 100% thc for legs

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Bolas are a death sentence for many PCs so that forces you to disable the ones with bolas first, which is OK. Nets are not a death sentence necessarily.

The problem with the fight people are talking about, featured in get ebola'd video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VmnHP5pZS8) is that enemies always strike first and there is not much most players can do to avoid that bolas. I wondered how Eyestabber dealt with this since I can't find this find in his Imperial Guard ironman.

 

[mushaden]

The problem with the fight people are talking about, featured in get ebola'd video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VmnHP5pZS8) is that enemies always strike first and there is not much most players can do to avoid that bolas. I wondered how Eyestabber dealt with this since I can't find this find in his Imperial Guard ironman.

I've gotten first strike in that fight before. Might have been because I had 10 dex and 10 perception. My assassin with 10 str, dex, and perception owned everyone till I couldn't beat Agatoth

 

[Niektory]

Perhaps some special equipment (helmet?) that could reduce the choke effect would be a good idea.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

The problem with the fight people are talking about, featured in get ebola'd video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VmnHP5pZS8) is that enemies always strike first and there is not much most players can do to avoid that bolas. I wondered how Eyestabber dealt with this since I can't find this find in his Imperial Guard ironman.

I've gotten first strike in that fight before. Might have been because I had 10 dex and 10 perception. My assassin with 10 str, dex, and perception owned everyone till I couldn't beat Agatoth

Didn't know that perception governs that.

 

[mushaden]

I'm not sure it does, but I think that was the only difference between that playthrough and others where I've done that fight. I might be wrong, though. Could have been because of 12-13 dex from power armor, but I know I've gotten the first turn in that fight.

 

[Tigranes]

Yeah I was thinking of that fight in particular. If you can manage to dodge that headchoke bola (25% chance) or strike first, you can close in on him and prevent the throw. But it's tough for other characters.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Yeah I was thinking of that fight in particular. If you can manage to dodge that headchoke bola (25% chance) or strike first, you can close in on him and prevent the throw. But it's tough for other characters.

Reloading until he misses is also tough.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

plus it became too much of a chance game. From a design standpoint, in general I prefer more predictable, balanced effects instead of "If this hits the fight is easy, if it doesn't, it's impossible.".

Which actually hints at a deeper design flaw...

BUT ANYHOO...

 

[Turok]

bolas=balls why use the spanish word?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

bolas=balls why use the spanish word?

Because anywhere outside Spain bolas means two balls and a rope.

 

[Ismaul]

Because choking someone with your balls means something totally different.

 

[PlanHex]

I'm not sure it does, but I think that was the only difference between that playthrough and others where I've done that fight. I might be wrong, though. Could have been because of 12-13 dex from power armor, but I know I've gotten the first turn in that fight.

Yeah, it's possible. With the same character and 12 dex from Horus mode, I easily beat them all without taking a single point of damage. But that wasn't really what I was trying to show with the video.

 

[Elhoim]

bolas=balls why use the spanish word?

I actually wanted them to be called boleadoras, as we call them here.