Baldur's Gate #BaldurGate: Siege of Dragonspear

[Shadenuat]

Ack, Beamdog lay down and die for changing UI every new patch even in BG2, what was so bad with original UI you had to insert SoD UI into SoA and ToB too? And what's up with cambion in Irenicus dungeon talking unused HaerDalis romance lines "darkness is over you my love what troubles you" every time you land a critical hit on him?

Not to mention v30 of Stratagems doesn't want to install on latest Steam version

400 rubles well spent, lol, I knew I d better buy 4 bottles of excellent live beer instead and pirate your crap to play Shaman class I wanted to play

I think the patch made some changes to the dialog.tlk file. It seems to have caused a lot of issues with mods that add new text.

Found this hotfix https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/732385/#Comment_732385 installing mod now with it, seems to run ok but takes lots of time to run through standard weidu window

 

[Prime Junta]

Interesting, thank you for the information.

I can't see what anti-racism have in common with 'SJW'.

Other than, SJW'S are strongly anti-racist?

Also, that wasn't the contention. Point was, creators have been talking about the politics of their work since forever, and acting like Amber Scott is the first one to do so is bizarre.

(That doesn't have anything to do with the merits of the work btw, which is a different topic.)

 

[Metal Hurlant]

Played some more, the game after the awful Baldur's Gate section gets a bit better, let you off the leash a bit but still limiting.

I'm only a little further ahead of you. Couldn't play today due to life commitments.

I agree with everything you said with the City of Baldurs Gate. I was stunned that most maps only have one building on it. The exception Sorcerous Sundries and Elfsong Tavern. I would've preferred they re-used the same maps and just changed them (repainted) to reflect the current crisis in the game. Instead, they chopped a small section off of each map, repainted it, put more people on it and that's it.

While the next part of the game after the City is better than the start, it's very railroad-y. Reminds me of IWD and ToB. With IWD when you first leave Easthaven and can't go back and have to continue with the game. Same with SoD where you can't go back to Baldur's Gate.

Another part I don't like is the lack of Original NPCs in the expansion, whereas all the Beamdog introduced NPCs from the base game are back. No thanks. So far, I haven't seen any of the following original NPCs:

Spoiler

Ajantis
Alora
Branwen
Eldoth Kron
Faldorn
Kagain
Kivan
Montaron
Quayle
Shar Teel
Xan
Xzar
Yeslick

 

[SionIV]

Interesting, thank you for the information.

I can't see what anti-racism have in common with 'SJW'.

Other than, SJW'S are strongly anti-racist?

Also, that wasn't the contention. Point was, creators have been talking about the politics of their work since forever, and acting like Amber Scott is the first one to do so is bizarre.

(That doesn't have anything to do with the merits of the work btw, which is a different topic.)

SJW's are so much more than just anti-racist, and they are very aggressive and opinionated when it comes to their beliefs.

I also highly doubt that Richard Garriot went out and said "I'm going to write my political agendas into the game, and I don't give a shit what the community think about it".

But then again, I could be wrong, feel free to prove me wrong.

I don't give a shit about the tran sexual person, it doesn't bother me at all and I couldn't care less about it. What is annoying me is those quotes from Amber Scott, pissing on the original game and then saying she doesn't give a shit what people feel about her changing the game to fit into her political beliefs, even changing original characters to do so.

 

[Turjan]

Another part I don't like is the lack of Original NPCs in the expansion, whereas all the Beamdog introduced NPCs from the base game are back. No thanks. So far, I haven't seen any of the following original NPCs:

While it doesn't explain why the Beamdog NPCs are there, they basically provide you with the NPCs you find at the beginning of BG2 in Irenicus' dungeon.

 

[Infinitron]

SionIV Ultima VII is full of intentional liberal political references. But they're of an older, pre-SJW form of liberalism that seems pretty innocuous today. First and second wave feminism, class conflict, environmental pollution, drugs, etc. No trannies and gay stuff.

The game also ultimately takes a somewhat ambivalent attitude towards these developments ("you know, this liberalism stuff might not be all that great if it almost allowed a cult that worships an interdimensional conqueror to take over the world unopposed")

 

[Llama-Yak Hybrid]

"I'm going to write my political agendas into the game, and I don't give a shit what the community think about it".

We are just peaceful wanderers we want sing and dance and wander and they hate us for no reason

~Gypsies, Ultima 7

 

[SionIV]

SionIV Ultima VII is full of intentional liberal political references, but they're of an older, pre-SJW form of liberalism that seems pretty innocuous today. Second wave feminism, class conflict, environmental pollution, drugs, etc. No trannies and gay stuff.

The game also ultimately takes a somewhat ambivalent attitude towards these developments (this liberalism stuff might not be all that great if it almost allowed a cult that worships an interdimensional conqueror to take over the world unopposed)

I'm going to have to push Ultima forward in my backlog, it seems very interesting. Which game would you advice that I start with?

 

[Metal Hurlant]

I don't know if it was posted before but here's Mundane Matt's take on this. He makes a really good point around the 8.40 min mark with Amber Scott and making characters organic.

 

[Prime Junta]

Boring RPS article with the makers of DX: Mankind Divided discussing the politics of the game: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08/28/deus-ex-mankind-divided-politics/
Ken Levine discussing the politics of Bioshock: https://killscreen.com/articles/rac...infinite-ken-levine-digs-americas-seedy-past/
Richard Garriott explicitly stating his political intent when designing the Ultimas: https://forum.digitpress.com/forum/...-The-Black-Gate-Religion-and-Richard-Garriott

Your entertainment is not apolitical. Never was, never will be.

 

[Tacgnol]

Boring RPS article with the makers of DX: Mankind Divided discussing the politics of the game: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08/28/deus-ex-mankind-divided-politics/
Ken Levine discussing the politics of Bioshock: https://killscreen.com/articles/rac...infinite-ken-levine-digs-americas-seedy-past/
Richard Garriott explicitly stating his political intent when designing the Ultimas: https://forum.digitpress.com/forum/...-The-Black-Gate-Religion-and-Richard-Garriott

Your entertainment is not apolitical. Never was, never will be.

Politics are fine, but you can include them without preaching. That's the difference between good and bad writing.

 

[SionIV]

Boring RPS article with the makers of DX: Mankind Divided discussing the politics of the game: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08/28/deus-ex-mankind-divided-politics/
Ken Levine discussing the politics of Bioshock: https://killscreen.com/articles/rac...infinite-ken-levine-digs-americas-seedy-past/
Richard Garriott explicitly stating his political intent when designing the Ultimas: https://forum.digitpress.com/forum/...-The-Black-Gate-Religion-and-Richard-Garriott

Your entertainment is not apolitical. Never was, never will be.

And how many of those games are now mainly known for being political agendas? How many people say "Bioshock? Isn't that the game about [Insert agenda]".

Because right now it's not Siege of Dragonspear, It's Siege of Dragonspear : The Social Justice game.

The game has been BRANDED for its political agenda.

 

[Prime Junta]

Boring RPS article with the makers of DX: Mankind Divided discussing the politics of the game: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08/28/deus-ex-mankind-divided-politics/
Ken Levine discussing the politics of Bioshock: https://killscreen.com/articles/rac...infinite-ken-levine-digs-americas-seedy-past/
Richard Garriott explicitly stating his political intent when designing the Ultimas: https://forum.digitpress.com/forum/...-The-Black-Gate-Religion-and-Richard-Garriott

Your entertainment is not apolitical. Never was, never will be.

And how many of those games are now mainly known for being political agendas? How many people say "Bioshock? Isn't that the game about [Insert agenda]".

Because right now it's not Siege of Dragonspear, It's Siege of Dragonspear : The Social Justice game.

The game has been BRANDED for its political agenda.

Indeed it has, but the question is... why and how did it happen?

From where I'm at, it's about 5% what Beamdog actually did, and 95% hilarious overreaction from hypersensitive GG'ers who have to check under their beds for SJW's before they can go to sleep every night.

Put another way, if any of these games came out today, I'm fairly sure they would get a similar reception.*

Edit: politics shifted accordingly, so they stand as far from the mainstream as they did then. Things have moved leftward a lot since then, which makes their once-radical positions seem middle-of-the-road now. (I.e., we're winning. Neener neener.)

 

[Infinitron]

I remember people making some noise about Bioshock being a game about OBJECTIVISM GONE MAD back in the day, but that stuff died down pretty quickly, because it was pretty impossible to take the game's treatment of it seriously.

 

[Turjan]

And how many of those games are now mainly known for being political agendas? How many people say "Bioshock? Isn't that the game about [Insert agenda]".

I remember a few articles dealing with this. The last Bioshock game was pretty much in your face with this topic.

Because right now it's not Siege of Dragonspear, It's Siege of Dragonspear : The Social Justice game.
The game has been BRANDED for its political agenda.

I guess their only mistake was to do this to an established franchise like Baldur's Gate. Newer Bioware franchises do basically the same, and while they also get backlash, they have their own audience.

 

[Trashos]

Boring RPS article with the makers of DX: Mankind Divided discussing the politics of the game: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08/28/deus-ex-mankind-divided-politics/
Ken Levine discussing the politics of Bioshock: https://killscreen.com/articles/rac...infinite-ken-levine-digs-americas-seedy-past/
Richard Garriott explicitly stating his political intent when designing the Ultimas: https://forum.digitpress.com/forum/...-The-Black-Gate-Religion-and-Richard-Garriott

Your entertainment is not apolitical. Never was, never will be.

Politics are fine, but you can include them without preaching. That's the difference between good and bad writing.

This.

I like having my views challenged. That's what good debating is all about, and that's how my views took shape in the first place. But that's all very different to preaching, I am a grown up man and not in school any more.

In addition, political debating can also very relevant to the essence of RPGs, if I am allowed to choose who I side with. If I am not allowed to choose, that's always very disappointing.

(also, don't put your shit in an established game with an existing fanbase, Beamdog, but that's another story).

 

[SionIV]

I'll agree with the fact that I'm buthurt because it's Baldur's Gate. If it had been some copy-paste Bioware title I wouldn't have given a shit. They insulted the original game and tried to make it into some political agenda by wanting to change characters like Jaheira, Safana and Minsc give Minsc a joke like that. They give us characters like Dorn, Hexxat, Neera and then they have the audacity to think they can write the original cast better.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

I guess their only mistake was to do this to an established franchise like Baldur's Gate. Newer Bioware franchises do basically the same, and while they also get backlash, they have their own audience.

Sure but nu-Bioware audience isn't Beamdog's audience. An expansion pack to a 18 year old classic with slightly updated graphics and UI was never gonna get a traction with that crowd, no matter how much you align game's politics with theirs.

 

[Llama-Yak Hybrid]

And how many of those games are now mainly known for being political agendas? How many people say "Bioshock? Isn't that the game about [Insert agenda]".

Because right now it's not Siege of Dragonspear, It's Siege of Dragonspear : The Social Justice game.

The game has been BRANDED for its political agenda.

Play Ultima 7. I personally like LB's jabs at Christianity it does but if you're the kind of neo-reactionary type that is often found around here, you might get offended. It's of course more cleverly written(it uses metaphors very well) but only a kid wouldn't notice all of this. And it doesn't end here. Wanna token characters that serve to show that Origin is :incloosive: - there's that minister/lawyer girl in the castle in Britain, go talk with her. My gypsy example is another one - but as Infinitron said earlier - it's all very cleverly presented. Like for example you have Gypsies saying they are so cool and they won't rob you(you're THE Avatar after all) but then you see that they are also the only ones in the game that have actual prostitutes(one male one female if I remember correctly) which hints that they are kind of shady guys.

So what you are angry at is that the writer was braindead monkey who could only write in SJW memes, not the SJW-ism itself if you hold Garriot as any kind of authority on how to write-in political themes into a game.

 

[Turjan]

I'll agree with the fact that I'm buthurt because it's Baldur's Gate. If it had been some copy-paste Bioware title I wouldn't have given a shit. They insulted the original game and tried to make it into some political agenda by wanting to change characters like Jaheira, Safana and Minsc.

That's pretty much one of the main reasons why that Gamestar review gave SoD that 58/100 rating (also Khalid), plus of course the incredibly lazy story that shits over BG2, ToB and IWD, let alone AD&D2.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

From where I'm at, it's about 5% what Beamdog actually did, and 95% hilarious overreaction from hypersensitive GG'ers who have to check under their beds for SJW's before they can go to sleep every night.

Holy projection Batman!

Edit: politics shifted accordingly, so they stand as far from the mainstream as they did then. Things have moved leftward a lot since then, which makes their once-radical positions seem middle-of-the-road now. (I.e., we're winning. Neener neener.)

Actually, globalist corporations are winning, SJWs are just this era's version of useful idiots and established regime bootlickers, nothing more.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I bet somebody like MCA at his best could have written a tranny for this game which would have had the Codex cumming in its pants and hailing it as one of the great moments of gaming. Instead we got Scott who managed to combine attacks on the base game she was expanding, palpable disdain for her potential audience and terrible fanfic writing. Genius.

 

[Infinitron]

Like for example you have Gypsies saying they are so cool and they won't rob you(you're THE Avatar after all) but then you see that they are also the only ones in the game that have actual prostitutes(one male one female if I remember correctly) which hints that they are kind of shady guys.

You're thinking of the gypsies in Ultima VI, where there two groups of them, the "good" gypsies and the "shady" ones who had hookers. U7 didn't have gypsy prostitutes.

 

[Delterius]

I remember people making some noise about Bioshock being a game about OBJECTIVISM GONE MAD back in the day, but that stuff died down pretty quickly, because it was pretty impossible to take the game's treatment of it seriously.

A wise man once said that the adventures of murderhobos were a more convincing tale of randian supermen than the underwater city of absolutist arseholes.

You're thinking of the gypsies in Ultima VI, where there two groups of them, the "good gypsies" and the "evil ones" who had hookers. U7 didn't have gypsy prostitutes.

The beginnings of sex negative SJWism.

 

[FeelTheRads]

From where I'm at, it's about 5% what Beamdog actually did, and 95% hilarious overreaction from hypersensitive GG'ers who have to check under their beds for SJW's before they can go to sleep every night.

Well, you're at a curious place, because from where I'm at this was their intention all along, only they probably expected to get much more of that modern audience money.

Them evil GGers, though, they're guilty of Beamdog going all righteous. Yeah, from where you're at everything would be just dandy without them evil GGers.