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Baldur's Gate #BaldurGate: Siege of Dragonspear
- Thread starter Infinitron
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2015
- Messages
- 590
I know, it can't be healthy to have so many different Dragonspear threads!
Infinitron could you move it?
Thank you.
Last edited:
The Nameless Pun
Unwanted
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2015
- Messages
- 224
Neither did I, neither did INeither did I.
That doesn't change a thing about the point that this site is full of posers.
Brancaleone
Prophet
No, I'm talking about what I read some months before the release of IWD EE on the Gibberlings Three forums from David Wallace himself. I don't remember verbatim, hence the over-cautious reference.
I had played one of the last versions of his IWD to BG2, and from what I remember it didn't have many bugs left.
This is the main thread of the IWD to BG2 conversion, nothing to do with Icewind Gate 2 (i.e. BG2 to IWD2):
http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?s=a56578d7fdbddf34cf3324599d7f58e7&showforum=155
Beastro
Arcane
Stat quo uber alles?
Makes me happy I stayed the fuck away from D&D along with WH and comic books.
Mexi
Dumbfuck!
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,811
Keep telling yourself that. Someone already exposed this fucking forum. A fuckton of members here bought Fallout: 4 on day one.
prodigydancer
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2015
- Messages
- 1,399
Word count limits? Three lines per support character? It's pretty stupid as a hard limit but, come think of it, it's close to what most support characters had in BG. And somehow olde-BioWare managed to do it without having to apologize thereafter.
At this point I just hope that Beamdog crashes and burns. I'm not rabidly anti-SJW (in fact, I wouldn't care about them at all if they honored live-and-let-live principle, but they don't) but this shit is surreal. Why, why did they have to pull BG into this mess instead of just making their own game and filling it with as much soc just content as they wanted? It's like writing a sequel to Shakespeare's works where Ophelia, Desdemona, Gertrude, Juliet and Lady Macbeth rise from the dead and start a feminist movement. (Oh, I'm sure somebody has already done something like that, no need to post a prooflink.)
At this point I just hope that Beamdog crashes and burns. I'm not rabidly anti-SJW (in fact, I wouldn't care about them at all if they honored live-and-let-live principle, but they don't) but this shit is surreal. Why, why did they have to pull BG into this mess instead of just making their own game and filling it with as much soc just content as they wanted? It's like writing a sequel to Shakespeare's works where Ophelia, Desdemona, Gertrude, Juliet and Lady Macbeth rise from the dead and start a feminist movement. (Oh, I'm sure somebody has already done something like that, no need to post a prooflink.)
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2015
- Messages
- 590
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/baldurs-gate-siege-of-dragonspear
Positive - 101
Mixed - 8
Negative - 156
If they are doing it, is isn't very effective.
This has even tumble rapidly on GOG as it's now at #38. Man, they really screwed this release badly.
Gauldur's Bait
Arbiter
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2015
- Messages
- 247
That really was quick. As the 85% discount of BG:EE is also down to 60%, I can't see a comeback on the cards either.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2014
- Messages
- 537
It's not hard. Keep the political stuff out that's divisive and hot at the moment and concentrate on making a game that's in the spirit of the original games. I don't think they know who their audience.
Cromwell
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2013
- Messages
- 5,443
Keep telling yourself that. Someone already exposed this fucking forum. A fuckton of members here bought Fallout: 4 on day one.
That fact of course makes sod that much better!
Turjan
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2008
- Messages
- 5,047
You get the 85% off only if you already have the original BG. Same discounts are valid for BG2:EE and IWD:EE if you have the original versions. Those discounts will run till April 29.
I can imagine that many people wanted to play the EE first before buying (the non-discounted) Dragonspear. After all the negative press, that may not work out for them.
Drakron
Arcane
- Joined
- May 19, 2005
- Messages
- 6,326
Well no, you see they were killed in the start of the 2nd Ed. since Assassins were no longer a class and Bhall was just useless unless you really wanted to keep a deity for assassins so he was dead for the whole of 2nd, 3rd and 4th edition thats a heck of a long time.
No idea why he was brought back, its not that FR had a large pantheon of deities before 4th started the curling because "the God of magic cannot be NG" bullcrap were many were axed since FR already had dead deities, its world building, so the fuck the decided to bring back a 1st Ed deity is simply beyond me, its not even if he was terrible interesting, Myrkul did fine without being a god ... might be because they are resetting "the Times of Retard" that was 4th Ed so everyone that was dead is coming back, Eilistraee is also back thats kinda surprising considering its 2016 and all that.
Grimlorn
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2011
- Messages
- 10,248
I wish these assholes wouldn't scream harassment every time they face criticism for their actions or work. They need to stop painting everyone who criticizes them as bigots and harassers. Makes the whole gaming community look bad every time the run to the press with claims of harassment and use it to deflect criticism.
Kem0sabe
Arcane
Their true mentality showed when they tweeted a plead for help to the usual feminist pussy squad creaming harassment from gamer gate.
No matter how much Trent tries to play it down and be polite to everyone involved, he's as much of a cunt as amber and dee.
Trent Oster made an interview. Here are some of my thoughts if you are interested.
http://www.develop-online.net/inter...-transgender-character-was-a-big-deal/0219033
"You don’t have you have to spend too long on the internet.." - great start...
"It is, of course, impossible for creators to produce anything without their own worldviews having an influence." - Agreed. The problem is when you try to shove your worldview down people's throat with a shovel and a boot on their neck.
“If there’s an aggressive agenda that’s being pushed into someone’s face, I disagree with that,” Beamdog CEO Trent Oster tells Develop." - Glad we agree on this Trent. Why are you then being such a dick about it by calling people who criticize your direction "small minded"?
"You need to tackle any social milieu appropriately, and aggressive agenda pushing is incorrect. It’s not the right way to do it. All you do is strengthen the resistance.” - Banning people very selectively and calling them small minded will have the same effect, Trent!
"There’s two sides of the argument [against Mizhena’s inclusion]. One is ‘I don’t want a transgender character in my game’, and while I don’t agree with it, I guess I can understand that perspective." - It was Beamdog pushing this narrative to your friends at femfreq and Jezbell, but I am happy to see you are capable of understaning a position of genuine bigots.
"Obviously we wanted to explore her story in a broader, deeper way, but the three-line limitation cut it off. If anyone was going to get to the fact that this character is transgender, they had to do it pretty fast." - Why include such a character then at all? If you can't make the character believable in 3 lines, wouldn't the sensible decision then be to just create a generic vendor? This just tells me that it was important to someone to have at least 1 trans character in the game, so you shoe-horned her into the game in the name of your world-view, just as we have been saying since day 1.
"Oster promises that the writers will be revisiting this character and finding a way for players to “develop a relationship” with her before she discloses this highly personal information." - Good! One problem solved I hope!
"To us, having a transgender character wasn’t that big a deal,” he says. “In a world where there’s half-orcs – so a human and an orc had an offspring together – and dragons can transform into humans and gods can walk the earth as male or female, whatever choice they make – it just didn’t seem like a big detail to us." - If that was really the case, you would have put a generic vendor in her place, due to 3 line limit. sigh... Can you please stop with the bullshit, Trent?! Being dishonest is what got you into this mess in the first place.
"Personally, I think it shows a progressive world view that we didn’t think a transgender character was a big deal. It was just a character to us, part of the world, helping to drive the story along.” - Yeah... you need to virtue signal a bit more how "progressive" you are!
"It’s a point that was underlined by Ed Greenwood, creator of the Forgotten Realms universe in which the Baldur’s Gate games are set." - Poor Ed has no idea what he is talking about. He is too busy to follow this shit-storm. Yes, he is right about there being all kinds of characters in FR, but if it was not a problem EVER before, why are people raging all of a sudden? What is more likely? That the BG fans who love FR lore have all of a sudden collectively lost their mind, or that perhaps you are trying to spin the narrative?
"But in the face of that inconsistency, how can any developer know which aspects of their game are going to set ‘them’ [the fans] off?" - Its simple... if you have a 3 line limit, don't fucking try to shove in complex stories into it, because there is word we use for it. Its called shoe-horning, Trent!
"I firmly believe that there is no ‘they’, there’s no group with a specific agenda,” says Oster. “There’s just a bunch of individuals – each with their own sensitivities, likes and dislikes – and the internet seems to package people together. You see a tempest in a teapot." - Why are you then banning comments like mine, while the SJW crowd is getting more numerous on your forums, Trent? It almost looks like... - I don't know... - like you are trying to create a safe space for a group of people with a very specific set of values.
"When a topic blows up on the internet, it’s hard to tell how ‘big’ it is. I think social media has created this echo chamber world,..." - For the love of god, man? Have you no introspection? How ironic it is that you blame the social media, when it is your employees who are doing everything in their power to create an echo-chamber for your little SJW group. It is thanks to social media that you have still not found a way to silence us! So, exactly opposite of what you say is true!
"...Because I’ve been in my little universe and it’s different to theirs.” - Yeah.. you need to stop banning people with different opinions. Then you will not have this problem!
"If the internet freaks out about something – well, it’s the internet and pretty much hates everything. If our fans bring it up, though, we’ll take it very seriously." - If they have the SJW credentials. If not, you will ban them and then next day report to Anita Sarkeesian or Jezbell how you were forced to ban "small minded" people due to threats and harassment to your co-workers. Just brilliant, Trent! Just fucking brilliant! You should have been a politician! You are either completely uninformed and lost in your safe space, or intentionally dishonest. In either case, politics sound like your line of work.
"Unfortunately, select people outside the community have gone that extra length to make their voices heard, reportedly resorting to issuing threats and harassment to Beamdog staff – and it’s something Oster has taken personally." - Oh.. here it goes again. The victim narrative. Ok.. I am getting really pissed now. A select people outside the community - translation: people inside the community (SJWs), people outside the community: notSJWs -> therfore scum, harassers, bullies... Fuck you, Trent!
"I maintain that for a three-line dialogue limits, this was well executed. If we remove that limit, we can execute it even better." - No, Trent! If you have a 3 line limit - don't introduce complex topics! For the love of God..
"If other developers ever face this level of harassment, I suggest they calm down, take a step back, wait and then prepare a statement." - Quite frankly, I think you are the last person who should be giving advices to other developers, Trent! Just look at what a mess you created.
"If someone hijacked your game and inserted their own agenda, something not approved by the company, you’ve got to figure out what to do from an internal management perspective. But if it’s representative of the company’s views, and you agree with it, you need to stand up and support that person. Personally, I think throwing someone under a bus is a bad thing to do.” - Amber basically admitted to doing just that, Trent! You have it in written form, man. But I guess you agree with it, so its ok then?
"After the reaction, I sat and clicked on him until the line appeared, and I agreed that, y’know what, this doesn’t actually make sense.” - Good. You are not completely insane, yet.
"However, Oster told Develop that their role in the story dates back to the beginning of development two years ago – before the real-world refugee crisis had heightened – and that they are a necessity for the RPG." - *sigh*... Are you not listening what the fans have been saying. The problem is not that you are doing refugees, Trent! The problem is that you have two guys coming and asking you for directions. Your options are:
1. Give directions and 10 gold.
2. Give directions.
If you choose 1 -> They thank you and go away.
If you choose 2 -> They say: I told you they won't help us.
Do you not see the problem, Trent? Just giving directions was not good enough, so the writer immediately scolds the player for not choosing option 1. *sigh*
And that is just one example of bad writing surrounding the refugees.
"While Oster is sensitive to fans’ concerns, he emphasises that much of the team has a firm grasp on what is and isn’t appropriate to the series – and hopes players will trust them to handle the franchise responsibly." - Trust needs to be earned, and so far this does not sound encouraging. It feels like you have no idea what the real issues are.
"We know Baldur’s Gate through and through,” he says. “There’s a number of us here who have been through the development of the original Baldur’s Gate, Neverwinter Nights and other BioWare content – we live this stuff." - Yeah, just pat yourself on the back, Trent. Remember, we will vote with out wallets.
"Ultimately, there’s a story we’re trying to tell,” he says. “Along the way of telling that story, there’s a core cast and there’s supporting characters. And it’s all about telling the best story we possibly can, and making characters that are interesting, believable and engaging. If following those priorities leads you to a transgendered character, or a female or male lead, or a gay or straight character, it’s what’s right for the story." - I really hope YOU SERIOUSLY believe that, Trent.
Also NOTHING about Safana? But remember folks... this is all about small-minded people not being able to deal with a trans-gender character. Go fuck yourself, Trent! Seriously!
http://www.develop-online.net/inter...-transgender-character-was-a-big-deal/0219033
"You don’t have you have to spend too long on the internet.." - great start...
"It is, of course, impossible for creators to produce anything without their own worldviews having an influence." - Agreed. The problem is when you try to shove your worldview down people's throat with a shovel and a boot on their neck.
“If there’s an aggressive agenda that’s being pushed into someone’s face, I disagree with that,” Beamdog CEO Trent Oster tells Develop." - Glad we agree on this Trent. Why are you then being such a dick about it by calling people who criticize your direction "small minded"?
"You need to tackle any social milieu appropriately, and aggressive agenda pushing is incorrect. It’s not the right way to do it. All you do is strengthen the resistance.” - Banning people very selectively and calling them small minded will have the same effect, Trent!
"There’s two sides of the argument [against Mizhena’s inclusion]. One is ‘I don’t want a transgender character in my game’, and while I don’t agree with it, I guess I can understand that perspective." - It was Beamdog pushing this narrative to your friends at femfreq and Jezbell, but I am happy to see you are capable of understaning a position of genuine bigots.
"Obviously we wanted to explore her story in a broader, deeper way, but the three-line limitation cut it off. If anyone was going to get to the fact that this character is transgender, they had to do it pretty fast." - Why include such a character then at all? If you can't make the character believable in 3 lines, wouldn't the sensible decision then be to just create a generic vendor? This just tells me that it was important to someone to have at least 1 trans character in the game, so you shoe-horned her into the game in the name of your world-view, just as we have been saying since day 1.
"Oster promises that the writers will be revisiting this character and finding a way for players to “develop a relationship” with her before she discloses this highly personal information." - Good! One problem solved I hope!
"To us, having a transgender character wasn’t that big a deal,” he says. “In a world where there’s half-orcs – so a human and an orc had an offspring together – and dragons can transform into humans and gods can walk the earth as male or female, whatever choice they make – it just didn’t seem like a big detail to us." - If that was really the case, you would have put a generic vendor in her place, due to 3 line limit. sigh... Can you please stop with the bullshit, Trent?! Being dishonest is what got you into this mess in the first place.
"Personally, I think it shows a progressive world view that we didn’t think a transgender character was a big deal. It was just a character to us, part of the world, helping to drive the story along.” - Yeah... you need to virtue signal a bit more how "progressive" you are!
"It’s a point that was underlined by Ed Greenwood, creator of the Forgotten Realms universe in which the Baldur’s Gate games are set." - Poor Ed has no idea what he is talking about. He is too busy to follow this shit-storm. Yes, he is right about there being all kinds of characters in FR, but if it was not a problem EVER before, why are people raging all of a sudden? What is more likely? That the BG fans who love FR lore have all of a sudden collectively lost their mind, or that perhaps you are trying to spin the narrative?
"But in the face of that inconsistency, how can any developer know which aspects of their game are going to set ‘them’ [the fans] off?" - Its simple... if you have a 3 line limit, don't fucking try to shove in complex stories into it, because there is word we use for it. Its called shoe-horning, Trent!
"I firmly believe that there is no ‘they’, there’s no group with a specific agenda,” says Oster. “There’s just a bunch of individuals – each with their own sensitivities, likes and dislikes – and the internet seems to package people together. You see a tempest in a teapot." - Why are you then banning comments like mine, while the SJW crowd is getting more numerous on your forums, Trent? It almost looks like... - I don't know... - like you are trying to create a safe space for a group of people with a very specific set of values.
"When a topic blows up on the internet, it’s hard to tell how ‘big’ it is. I think social media has created this echo chamber world,..." - For the love of god, man? Have you no introspection? How ironic it is that you blame the social media, when it is your employees who are doing everything in their power to create an echo-chamber for your little SJW group. It is thanks to social media that you have still not found a way to silence us! So, exactly opposite of what you say is true!
"...Because I’ve been in my little universe and it’s different to theirs.” - Yeah.. you need to stop banning people with different opinions. Then you will not have this problem!
"If the internet freaks out about something – well, it’s the internet and pretty much hates everything. If our fans bring it up, though, we’ll take it very seriously." - If they have the SJW credentials. If not, you will ban them and then next day report to Anita Sarkeesian or Jezbell how you were forced to ban "small minded" people due to threats and harassment to your co-workers. Just brilliant, Trent! Just fucking brilliant! You should have been a politician! You are either completely uninformed and lost in your safe space, or intentionally dishonest. In either case, politics sound like your line of work.
"Unfortunately, select people outside the community have gone that extra length to make their voices heard, reportedly resorting to issuing threats and harassment to Beamdog staff – and it’s something Oster has taken personally." - Oh.. here it goes again. The victim narrative. Ok.. I am getting really pissed now. A select people outside the community - translation: people inside the community (SJWs), people outside the community: notSJWs -> therfore scum, harassers, bullies... Fuck you, Trent!
"I maintain that for a three-line dialogue limits, this was well executed. If we remove that limit, we can execute it even better." - No, Trent! If you have a 3 line limit - don't introduce complex topics! For the love of God..
"If other developers ever face this level of harassment, I suggest they calm down, take a step back, wait and then prepare a statement." - Quite frankly, I think you are the last person who should be giving advices to other developers, Trent! Just look at what a mess you created.
"If someone hijacked your game and inserted their own agenda, something not approved by the company, you’ve got to figure out what to do from an internal management perspective. But if it’s representative of the company’s views, and you agree with it, you need to stand up and support that person. Personally, I think throwing someone under a bus is a bad thing to do.” - Amber basically admitted to doing just that, Trent! You have it in written form, man. But I guess you agree with it, so its ok then?
"After the reaction, I sat and clicked on him until the line appeared, and I agreed that, y’know what, this doesn’t actually make sense.” - Good. You are not completely insane, yet.
"However, Oster told Develop that their role in the story dates back to the beginning of development two years ago – before the real-world refugee crisis had heightened – and that they are a necessity for the RPG." - *sigh*... Are you not listening what the fans have been saying. The problem is not that you are doing refugees, Trent! The problem is that you have two guys coming and asking you for directions. Your options are:
1. Give directions and 10 gold.
2. Give directions.
If you choose 1 -> They thank you and go away.
If you choose 2 -> They say: I told you they won't help us.
Do you not see the problem, Trent? Just giving directions was not good enough, so the writer immediately scolds the player for not choosing option 1. *sigh*
And that is just one example of bad writing surrounding the refugees.
"While Oster is sensitive to fans’ concerns, he emphasises that much of the team has a firm grasp on what is and isn’t appropriate to the series – and hopes players will trust them to handle the franchise responsibly." - Trust needs to be earned, and so far this does not sound encouraging. It feels like you have no idea what the real issues are.
"We know Baldur’s Gate through and through,” he says. “There’s a number of us here who have been through the development of the original Baldur’s Gate, Neverwinter Nights and other BioWare content – we live this stuff." - Yeah, just pat yourself on the back, Trent. Remember, we will vote with out wallets.
"Ultimately, there’s a story we’re trying to tell,” he says. “Along the way of telling that story, there’s a core cast and there’s supporting characters. And it’s all about telling the best story we possibly can, and making characters that are interesting, believable and engaging. If following those priorities leads you to a transgendered character, or a female or male lead, or a gay or straight character, it’s what’s right for the story." - I really hope YOU SERIOUSLY believe that, Trent.
Also NOTHING about Safana? But remember folks... this is all about small-minded people not being able to deal with a trans-gender character. Go fuck yourself, Trent! Seriously!
Last edited:
Space Insect
Arcane
tl;dr:
More bullshit from Trent thinly disguised as a reconciliatory statement
More bullshit from Trent thinly disguised as a reconciliatory statement
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2014
- Messages
- 537
"...Because I’ve been in my little universe and it’s different to theirs.”
In other words, Trent's created his own little oyster farm with all the other little oysters to gather around him. You too can be a mollusc on the Beamdog oysterforum farm.
In other words, Trent's created his own little oyster farm with all the other little oysters to gather around him. You too can be a mollusc on the Beamdog oyster
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