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Mareus

Magister
Joined
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Messages
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Atlantis
"...Because I’ve been in my little universe and it’s different to theirs.”

In other words, Trent's created his own little oyster farm with all the other little oysters to gather around him. You too can be a mollusc on the Beamdog oyster forum farm.
I posted a politically correct version of my analysis from previous page on Beamdog's forums. It has been removed within 2 minutes and immediately I got a "harassment" warning. What is remaining is various variations of: "Much respect mr. Trent! I hope to be like you one day, mr. Trent! Mr. Trent nailed it again!"

If ass-kissing is all you are willing to expose yourself to, I would like to propose that you will become unable to create anything of value. PERIOD.
 
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Mustawd

Guest
"If the internet freaks out about something – well, it’s the internet and pretty much hates everything. If our fans bring it up, though, we’ll take it very seriously." - If they have the SJW credentials. If not, you will ban them and then next day report to Anita Sarkeesian or Jezbell how you were forced to ban "small minded" people due to threats and harassment to your co-workers. Just brilliant, Trent! Just fucking brilliant! You should have been a politician! You are either completely uninformed and lost in your safe space, or intentionally dishonest. In either case, politics sound like your line of work.

This is 100% on point. Beamdog had plenty of people on their forums saying they didn't like how that character was implemented. Yet the first reaction was to label them bigots. Only when trans people starting coming forward did they slightly alter their narrative of "tranny hating racists OMG!"
 
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Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
10,200
Location
where east is west
"It is, of course, impossible for creators to produce anything without their own worldviews having an influence." - Agreed. The problem is when you try to shove your worldview down people's throat with a shovel and a boot on their neck.

Doesn't take a master writer to have people react to your views expressed in-world in ways that are counter to it, yet not one dimensional retarded caricatures of what you think they think.

Any decent writer can make people have decent reasons for why they do things, but then again we're talk about video games where most evil is stupid evil.
 

DemonKing

Arcane
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
6,720
Poor Trent - when I go shopping I don't expect the checkout chick to tell me she's transgender over the course of the transaction (even if s/he is), so why so surprised people are responding badly to your little vendor?

If anything the character is doing a disservice to the SJWs in that the complex life-changing decisions that I guess must go into deciding to change genders are reduced to throw away lines spouted the moment you strike up a conversation with a complete stranger. If promoting the SJW cause is so important why is this character so trivialized? It's tokenism at its worst and if the SJWs actually wanted their cause to be taken seriously they should be calling you on it.
 

Rivmusique

Arcane
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Kangarooland
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
It's pretty funny, they have a point later in the game where you are encouraged to make an effort to get to know some of the army and their reasons for signing up for this army. Could have easily put this backstory there, would be far more natural than "that's a weird name!" (it's not). The reveal could also have been relevant to her Tempus worship e.g. "I was disarmed in the middle of a battlefield, certain to die. I prayed to Tempus and he blessed me with a thundering erection, which I used to crush my enemies skulls in a fighting retreat. Praise Tempus!"
 

damager

Prophet
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
1,930
"Ultimately, there’s a story we’re trying to tell,” he says. “Along the way of telling that story, there’s a core cast and there’s supporting characters. And it’s all about telling the best story we possibly can, and making characters that are interesting, believable and engaging. If following those priorities leads you to a transgendered character, or a female or male lead, or a gay or straight character, it’s what’s right for the story."

Nothing better as to tell the story of Baldurs Gate through transgendered and gay characters.

But...

"We know Baldur’s Gate through and through,” he says. “There’s a number of us here who have been through the development of the original Baldur’s Gate, Neverwinter Nights and other BioWare content – we live this stuff."

You sure do buddy. That leaves us with only one possibility: you are retarded.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,405
You Trent is walking on a forest and see a crossroad, there is a little wooden sign, to the left, the road goes to Trannyvile and the right to BG 3. What you will choose?
1. Trannyville.
2. BG 3.

Trent: I choose Trannyvile.

After walking an ardous road, you arrive on Trannyville. Trannyville is a bucholic hipster little safe space village where nothing of importance happens and everyone avoid microagressions. You live a boring life on Trannyville where nothing of importance is said, nothing of importance is done and die eaten on a Hobglobin invasion as the citizens of Trannyville avoid being microagressive with the Hobglobins. It is a pity that the Hobglobins didn't share the same ideals, Trent. The strategy of saying they were misundertood little dogs that down inside were cutey harmless puppies didn't work out.

Trent: Wait a minute, I died. I thought this was a fake choice. I thought that somehow I would still make BG 3.

Sorry, Trent, real life isn't popamole.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
He is obviously on his back now and is feigning tolerance, but it's too late for this to have much effect on sales, which is what really caused the change in tone, and their true attitude showed in all its ignorance in the first hours of the crisis. Trent's too, and unlike that simpleton Dee, it's impossible for Trent to delete his interview and the first statement in the way that Dee "deleted" his tweet and tried to pretend he never wrote it.

Too late for Beamdog, they'll be remembered as the people who put a tranny and a GG reference in the first original BG content released in over a decade, and it will never be considered canon, not by "true BG fans" anyway. Thank Trent Oster and Amber Scott for that.
 

Gauldur's Bait

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
247
Trent Oster made an interview. Here are some of my thoughts if you are interested.
http://www.develop-online.net/inter...-transgender-character-was-a-big-deal/0219033
"You don’t have you have to spend too long on the internet.." - great start...

"It is, of course, impossible for creators to produce anything without their own worldviews having an influence." - Agreed. The problem is when you try to shove your worldview down people's throat with a shovel and a boot on their neck.

“If there’s an aggressive agenda that’s being pushed into someone’s face, I disagree with that,” Beamdog CEO Trent Oster tells Develop." - Glad we agree on this Trent. Why are you then being such a dick about it by calling people who criticize your direction "small minded"?

"You need to tackle any social milieu appropriately, and aggressive agenda pushing is incorrect. It’s not the right way to do it. All you do is strengthen the resistance.” - Banning people very selectively will have the same effect, Trent!

"There’s two sides of the argument [against Mizhena’s inclusion]. One is ‘I don’t want a transgender character in my game’, and while I don’t agree with it, I guess I can understand that perspective." - It was Beamdog pushing this narrative to your friends at femfreq and Jezbell, but I am happy to see you are capable of understaning a position of genuine bigots.

"Obviously we wanted to explore her story in a broader, deeper way, but the three-line limitation cut it off. If anyone was going to get to the fact that this character is transgender, they had to do it pretty fast." - Why include such a character then at all? If you can't make the character believable in 3 lines, wouldn't the sensible decision then be to just create a generic vendor? This just tells me that it was important to someone to have at least 1 trans character in the game, so you shoe-horned her into the game in the name of your world-view, just as we have been saying since day 1.

"Oster promises that the writers will be revisiting this character and finding a way for players to “develop a relationship” with her before she discloses this highly personal information." - Good! One problem solved I hope!

"To us, having a transgender character wasn’t that big a deal,” he says. “In a world where there’s half-orcs – so a human and an orc had an offspring together – and dragons can transform into humans and gods can walk the earth as male or female, whatever choice they make – it just didn’t seem like a big detail to us." - If that was really the case, you would have put a generic vendor in her place, due to 3 line limit. sigh... Can you please stop with the bullshit, Trent?! Being dishonest is what got you into this mess in the first place.

"Personally, I think it shows a progressive world view that we didn’t think a transgender character was a big deal. It was just a character to us, part of the world, helping to drive the story along.” - Yeah... you need to virtue signal a bit more how "progressive" you are!

"It’s a point that was underlined by Ed Greenwood, creator of the Forgotten Realms universe in which the Baldur’s Gate games are set." - Poor Ed has no idea what he is talking about. He is too busy to follow this shit-storm. Yes, he is right about there being all kinds of characters in FR, but if it was not a problem EVER before, why are people raging all of a sudden? What is more likely? That the BG fans who love FR lore have all of a sudden collectively lost their mind, or that perhaps you are trying to spin the narrative?

"But in the face of that inconsistency, how can any developer know which aspects of their game are going to set ‘them’ [the fans] off?" - Its simple... if you have a 3 line limit, don't fucking try to shove in complex stories into it, because there is word we use for it. Its called shoe-horning, Trent!

"I firmly believe that there is no ‘they’, there’s no group with a specific agenda,” says Oster. “There’s just a bunch of individuals – each with their own sensitivities, likes and dislikes – and the internet seems to package people together. You see a tempest in a teapot." - Why are you then banning comments like mine, while the SJW crowd is getting more numerous on your forums, Trent? It almost looks like... - I don't know... - like you are trying to create a safe space for a group of people with a very specific set of values.

"When a topic blows up on the internet, it’s hard to tell how ‘big’ it is. I think social media has created this echo chamber world,..." - For the love of god, man? Have you no introspection? How ironic it is that you blame the social media, when it is your employees who are doing everything in their power to create an echo-chamber for your little SJW group. It is thanks to social media that you have still not found a way to silence us! So, exactly opposite of what you say is true!

"...Because I’ve been in my little universe and it’s different to theirs.” - Yeah.. you need to stop banning people with different opinions. Then you will not have this problem!

"If the internet freaks out about something – well, it’s the internet and pretty much hates everything. If our fans bring it up, though, we’ll take it very seriously." - If they have the SJW credentials. If not, you will ban them and then next day report to Anita Sarkeesian or Jezbell how you were forced to ban "small minded" people due to threats and harassment to your co-workers. Just brilliant, Trent! Just fucking brilliant! You should have been a politician! You are either completely uninformed and lost in your safe space, or intentionally dishonest. In either case, politics sound like your line of work.

"Unfortunately, select people outside the community have gone that extra length to make their voices heard, reportedly resorting to issuing threats and harassment to Beamdog staff – and it’s something Oster has taken personally." - Oh.. here it goes again. The victim narrative. Ok.. I am getting really pissed now. A select people outside the community - translation: people inside the community (SJWs), people outside the community: notSJWs -> therfore scum, harassers, bullies... Fuck you, Trent!

"I maintain that for a three-line dialogue limits, this was well executed. If we remove that limit, we can execute it even better." - No, Trent! If you have a 3 line limit - don't introduce complex topics! For the love of God..

"If other developers ever face this level of harassment, I suggest they calm down, take a step back, wait and then prepare a statement." - Quite frankly, I think you are the last person who should be giving advices to other developers, Trent! Just look at what a mess you created.

"If someone hijacked your game and inserted their own agenda, something not approved by the company, you’ve got to figure out what to do from an internal management perspective. But if it’s representative of the company’s views, and you agree with it, you need to stand up and support that person. Personally, I think throwing someone under a bus is a bad thing to do.” - Amber basically admitted to doing just that, Trent! You have it in written form, man. But I guess you agree with it, so its ok then?

"After the reaction, I sat and clicked on him until the line appeared, and I agreed that, y’know what, this doesn’t actually make sense.” - Good. You are not completely insane, yet.

"However, Oster told Develop that their role in the story dates back to the beginning of development two years ago – before the real-world refugee crisis had heightened – and that they are a necessity for the RPG." - *sigh*... Are you not listening what the fans have been saying. The problem is not that you are doing refugees, Trent! The problem is that you have two guys coming and asking you for directions. Your options are:
1. Give directions and 10 gold.
2. Give directions.
If you choose 1 -> They thank you and go away.
If you choose 2 -> They say: I told you they won't help us.
Do you not see the problem, Trent? Just giving directions was not good enough, so the writer immediately scolds the player for not choosing option 1. *sigh*
And that is just one example of bad writing surrounding the refugees.

"While Oster is sensitive to fans’ concerns, he emphasises that much of the team has a firm grasp on what is and isn’t appropriate to the series – and hopes players will trust them to handle the franchise responsibly." - Trust needs to be earned, and so far this does not sound encouraging. It feels like you have no idea what the real issues are.

"We know Baldur’s Gate through and through,” he says. “There’s a number of us here who have been through the development of the original Baldur’s Gate, Neverwinter Nights and other BioWare content – we live this stuff." - Yeah, just pat yourself on the back, Trent. Remember, we will vote with out wallets.

"Ultimately, there’s a story we’re trying to tell,” he says. “Along the way of telling that story, there’s a core cast and there’s supporting characters. And it’s all about telling the best story we possibly can, and making characters that are interesting, believable and engaging. If following those priorities leads you to a transgendered character, or a female or male lead, or a gay or straight character, it’s what’s right for the story." - I really hope YOU SERIOUSLY believe that, Trent.

Also NOTHING about Safana? But remember folks... this is all about small-minded people not being able to deal with a trans-gender character. Go fuck yourself, Trent! Seriously!

This just about covers it. I think Trent is still missing the point though - if Real Life (TM) is so obviously in control of what the designers produce and write, and their opinions will influence the game so such a high degree, then how is it that this was not an issue with the original Baldur's Gate games (or many many other CRPGs and computer games)? How is it that they are viewed as timeless by so many fans of the series? Sure, there are pop culture references, but these are more like easter eggs and nothing was ever pushed in your face. The two originals never told me what to think. Many games, like the first Fallout for example, can be interpreted in many different ways and raises many different questions and I never felt that any particular agenda was being pushed as the characters and the locations, encounters etc. expressed many different and diverse situations and settings.
 

SionIV

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
590
"While Oster is sensitive to fans’ concerns, he emphasises that much of the team has a firm grasp on what is and isn’t appropriate to the series – and hopes players will trust them to handle the franchise responsibly."

This reminds me a lot of what Blizzard said to their fans, and now look at their subscriber numbers.

--------

I'm going to help Trent out here, and make the list shorter and easier to understand.

1.) Don't alienate half of your playerbase by inserting radical political agendas.

2.) Don't split your community into two parts that go to war against each other.

3.) Don't talk down to your playerbase saying that they're stupid and you know better.

4.) Don't expect people to trust you and your decisions, if you have done nothing to earn their trust.

Developers, if you listen to the above, you might just prevent another Dragonspear.
 
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SionIV

Cipher
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Joined
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Messages
590
"I respect Trent Oster. I really do. Everytime I see his name. The first thing I think of is; Neverwinter Nights."

"my god that game was fantastic"
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
"While Oster is sensitive to fans’ concerns, he emphasises that much of the team has a firm grasp on what is and isn’t appropriate to the series – and hopes players will trust them to handle the franchise responsibly."

This reminds me a lot of what Blizzard said to their fans, and now look at their subscriber numbers.

--------

I'm going to help Trent out here, and make the list shorter and easier to understand.

1.) Don't alienate half of your playerbase by inserting radical political agendas.

Trent's resposnse:
But if it’s representative of the company’s views, and you agree with it, you need to stand up and support that person.

2.) Don't split your community into two parts that go to war against each other.
Trent's resposnse:
If the internet freaks out about something – well, it’s the internet and pretty much hates everything. If our fans (within our community) bring it up, we’ll take it very seriously. (Those that agree with us and are still around collecting brownie points)

3.) Don't talk down to your playerbase saying that they're stupid and you know better.

Trent's resposnse:
I really don’t want potential fans to miss out on the series because of protest reviews by small minded individuals.

4.) Don't expect people to trust you and your decisions, if you have done nothing to earn their trust.

Trent's resposnse:
We know Baldur’s Gate through and through (even though we banned most of people who would argue that point)!

Developers, if you listen to the above, you might just prevent another Dragonspear.
Well, when you break every rule in the book - even after you thought long and hard about this whole affair and you fail to apologize for calling people with different opinions small minded - I think it's fair to say that there is no hope for Beamdog.
 

SionIV

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
590
"While Oster is sensitive to fans’ concerns, he emphasises that much of the team has a firm grasp on what is and isn’t appropriate to the series – and hopes players will trust them to handle the franchise responsibly."

This reminds me a lot of what Blizzard said to their fans, and now look at their subscriber numbers.

--------

I'm going to help Trent out here, and make the list shorter and easier to understand.

1.) Don't alienate half of your playerbase by inserting radical political agendas.
Trent's resposnse: But if it’s representative of the company’s views, and you agree with it, you need to stand up and support that person.

2.) Don't split your community into two parts that go to war against each other.
Trent's resposnse:
If the internet freaks out about something – well, it’s the internet and pretty much hates everything. If our fans (within our community) bring it up, we’ll take it very seriously. (Those that agree with us and are still around collecting brownie points)

3.) Don't talk down to your playerbase saying that they're stupid and you know better.
Trent's resposnse:
I really don’t want potential fans to miss out on the series because of protest reviews by small minded individuals.

4.) Don't expect people to trust you and your decisions, if you have done nothing to earn their trust.
Trent's resposnse:
We know Baldur’s Gate through and through (even though we banned most of people who would argue that point)!

Developers, if you listen to the above, you might just prevent another Dragonspear.
Well, when you break every rule in the book - even after you thought long and hard about this whole affair and you fail to apologize for calling people with different opinions small minded - I think it's fair to say that there is no hope for Beamdog.

Agreed. Now it's just to sit and wait for the numbers.

--------

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/52474/why-sod-didnt-do-this-at-launch-steam-store-main-page

Hahahaha, I'm dying over here from laughing, the threads over there deliver more entertainment than any other place right now.

"Is Dark Souls III an AAA game? I didn't think the series had quite made it that far."
 

Namutree

Augur
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
250
I requested a refund. The game was buggy to the point of being unplayable (literally). Safana was changed into a wholly different character because reasons. The game's pacing wasn't akin to Baldur's Gate (you know, the game it's supposed to be an expansion to). The writing was downright cringy at times (usually their horrible attempts at humor).

The SJW stuff felt out of place and was handled badly. <---- I care about this the least, but everyone else seems to care about it a lot so I might as well give my opinion on it.

Shitty expansion. Period.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
33,250
My main problem with SoD is "I DON'T CARE". All this Crusade thing is ok for big adventure integrated in base game or for IWD add-on, but not for full game in BG saga. BG was always about bhaalspawn. Both Sarevok and Irenicus was our personal enemies. Why should i care about Argent? Why should i join people who mostly hate me for my heritage to bring her down?
 

Metal Hurlant

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
537
Codex USB, 2014 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
I find the story absurd. While you've been adventuring with your companions over months and defeat Sarevok, within a week of defeating Sarevok, there's this massive crusade enveloping the Sword Coast so much that swarms of refugees have taken residence in Baldur's Gate. My main aim is to get my money back that was stolen and companions that I've adventured with, even though I have no idea if I will get them. That's basically my character's motivation. Otherwise, I don't really care about the crusade and I would be getting the hell out of there post-haste.
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
"If the internet freaks out about something – well, it’s the internet and pretty much hates everything. If our fans bring it up, though, we’ll take it very seriously." - If they have the SJW credentials. If not, you will ban them and then next day report to Anita Sarkeesian or Jezbell how you were forced to ban "small minded" people due to threats and harassment to your co-workers. Just brilliant, Trent! Just fucking brilliant! You should have been a politician! You are either completely uninformed and lost in your safe space, or intentionally dishonest. In either case, politics sound like your line of work.

This is 100% on point. Beamdog had plenty of people on their forums saying they didn't like how that character was implemented. Yet the first reaction was to label them bigots. Only when trans people starting coming forward did they slightly alter their narrative of "tranny hating racists OMG!"

You pc, bro?
 

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