Baldur's Gate #BaldurGate: Siege of Dragonspear

[Ezrite]

For one thing, Forgotten Realms touches upon themes like racism, but never directly. You can hate drow, but you're delusional if you think that they'd let express hatred towards a character for being a black human, for example. I doubt Wizards would sign off on that. So the tranny bashing option is out of the cards.

Other than that, what I think would really make no sense in the Forgotten Realms is transphobia. What is the point of hating someone when they have literally magically changed their gender? How is she an abomination when she is in fact a woman now, and not just a man who went through plastic surgery to look like one?

Regarding the "Why the fuck are you telling me this?", as I said, the screenshot conveniently showcases the interaction out of context. You get to that part of the dialogue because you yourself asked why her name is unusual, and she talks about her story of having been born a man because that's where the name comes from.

I swear some people will come up with all kinds of nonsensical shit to keep this controversy going on strong.

You really think there is a lvl 20 mage around each corner, dont you? Normal peasants clearly are not in the same know how as some heroic morons fighting dragons for lunch.

Also, this is about the only character in the whole game you can ask about the name when there is plenty of others with funky names. Dorn Il-Khan or wtf it was, Viconia. Branwen and other forgeign dignitaries we are honoured to meet. Sarevok? But oh no, Mizhena, that sure is one unique name. Im suprise we don't have a added line to the Daryl kobold about "WOOOW! ARE YOU DARYL FROM THE WALKING DEAD?" to joke about references not aging so well.

 

[PhantasmaNL]

As felipepepe said,

IF Beamdog had better PR, less corrosive employees like TooBad Amber who doesnt give a shit about the product or the customer, capable writers indepth familiar with the series and customerbase, much better QA and testing, a clear mission statement aiming at making great niche RPGS instead of political campaigning....[ok, thats a lot of ifs right there, maybe it was hopeless from the start]

...nobody would give a ff about some trans vendor you can ignore anyway.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

For one thing, Forgotten Realms touches upon themes like racism, but never directly. You can hate drow, but you're delusional if you think that they'd let express hatred towards a character for being a black human, for example. I doubt Wizards would sign off on that. So the tranny bashing option is out of the cards.

Other than that, what I think would really make no sense in the Forgotten Realms is transphobia. What is the point of hating someone when they have literally magically changed their gender? How is she an abomination when she is in fact a woman now, and not just a man who went through plastic surgery to look like one?

Regarding the "Why the fuck are you telling me this?", as I said, the screenshot conveniently showcases the interaction out of context. You get to that part of the dialogue because you yourself asked why her name is unusual, and she talks about her story of having been born a man because that's where the name comes from.

I swear some people will come up with all kinds of nonsensical shit to keep this controversy going on strong.

You really think there is a lvl 20 mage around each corner, dont you? Normal peasants clearly are not in the same know how as some heroic morons fighting dragons for lunch..

What do you even mean by this? That the character (or at least the average transsexual) simply couldn't have changed her sex because the magic is there but it's not easily accessible?

This is hilarious! Just now everybody was talking about how it didn't make sense for anyone to struggle with being a transgender in Faerun because it's such a high magic setting, that anyone can find a trinket or a mage to the change (struggles which, as pointed, don't even happen in this case). Now you're telling me the opposite, that such magic is inacessible. So traditional, real life, transgendered people are completely possible in the Forgotten Realms. Which is it? I'm really confused. And the argument that the character is out of place in the setting would sound silly either way.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Also, this is about the only character in the whole game you can ask about the name when there is plenty of others with funky names. Dorn Il-Khan or wtf it was, Viconia. Branwen and other forgeign dignitaries we are honoured to meet. Sarevok? But oh no, Mizhena, that sure is one unique name. Im suprise we don't have a added line to the Daryl kobold about "WOOOW! ARE YOU DARYL FROM THE WALKING DEAD?" to joke about references not aging so well.

Those names might sound strange to you, but they are not strange in the game world. What would those characters answer? Like, "wtf dude, why do you think it's strange, severoc is like 3rd most common name in Faerun"? This question is pointless. It would break an immersion.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

I'm sleepy, I feel like I'm trying to dry an ice cube with a towel.

Let Rome burn and the extremists on each side have their battle royale in it, may they feed the crows and may the crows be content with carcasses devoid of gray matter.

 

[GarfunkeL]

I dunno what Ezrite is smoking but he is damn wrong.

In Faerun:

1) Magic items exist that change your appearance - but this is an illusion only.
2) Magic items exist that change your gender - this is a complete biological change.
3) Both Arcane and Divine spells exist that change your appearance and/or gender: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Alter_Self In 3.5, that's a 2nd level spell, so a pretty damn cheap one. Sure, it's not permanent but it's a start.
4) There are documented cases of Gods changing their followers in various ways: most famously Lloth changing male Drow into Driders and Mystra changing Elminster to a woman.

So while you can make the case that someone in Faerun might be similarly struggling through transition as happens on Earth, it's a pretty weak case. Basically, being trans is not a major issue in Faerun at all. There really wouldn't even be transphobia, like Pretty said, because fixing it would be relatively simple.

 

[Infinitron]

Seems that people ITT are trying to rationalize. "Why did Beamdog in particular deserve this? Was what they made really that bad?"

I think that may be looking at things in reverse. Beamdog are small and their game wasn't selling very well even before the tranny stuff really exploded. So when people started reviewbombing them, it actually made a serious impact. It's not that the "GamerGate hordes" really singled out Beamdog for particularly harsh treatment, it's just that when they did their regular thing, it was particularly effective this time. And of course, once you've been proven to be vulnerable, that invites even more bullying.

 

[varangos]

I swear some people will come up with all kinds of nonsensical shit to keep this controversy going on strong.

one guy actually claimed,in this very thread, that the refugee stuff ingame is a covert attempt to push for some pro-refugee agenda.............

 

[Black]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/

Baldur's Gate IS one of the best role-playing games ever made (what I never finished) whether you like it or not.

It's not, whether you like it or not. And I have finished it so fuck you

 

[pippin]

Seems that people ITT are trying to rationalize. "Why did Beamdog in particular deserve this? Was what they made really that bad?"

I think that may be looking at things in reverse. Beamdog are small and their game wasn't selling very well even before the tranny stuff really exploded. So when people started reviewbombing them, it actually made a serious impact. It's not that the "GamerGate hordes" really singled out Beamdog for particularly heinous sins, it's just that when they did their regular thing, it was particularly effective this time. And once you've been proven to be vulnerable, that invites even more bullying.

True that, but this ineptitude at handling issues is only acceptable for people who have no experience in the business. Much like the indie explosion was more of a media thing since most "indies" were former ubisoft/activision/whatever employees, Trent's credit as a person of relevance in video game making goes back to Neverwinter Nights at least. That's 15 years ago. He should know how to react and how to command his employees, if the situarion warrants. If he doesn't, then he's just a bad manager, a bad businessman. Context in this aspect matter little, since marketing is not doing its job properly,and it's not like people are to blame for having opinions, as harmful as they can be sometimes. People don't buy games simply because they don't want them.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

And I have finished it so fuck you

Your demonstration of entitlement make me think that you consider finishing a shit game to be some kind of achievment.

 

[Tacgnol]

Haha, someone made a mod that removes the Minsc line and the tranny dialogue:

http://www.moddb.com/games/baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition/downloads/siege-of-dragonspear-corrections

More butthurt inc.

 

[Black]

And I have finished it so fuck you

Your demonstration of entitlement make me think that you consider finishing a shit game to be some kind of achievment.

Know your enemy.

 

[Talby]

Greenwood is making the classic mistake of blaming the audience for not not liking the product. Because the best storytellers all have to explain why their readers are stupid homophobic bigots for not liking their work, it couldn't be that it just sucks.

 

[Quatlo]

I dunno what Ezrite is smoking but he is damn wrong.

In Faerun:

1) Magic items exist that change your appearance - but this is an illusion only.
2) Magic items exist that change your gender - this is a complete biological change.
3) Both Arcane and Divine spells exist that change your appearance and/or gender: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Alter_Self In 3.5, that's a 2nd level spell, so a pretty damn cheap one. Sure, it's not permanent but it's a start.
4) There are documented cases of Gods changing their followers in various ways: most famously Lloth changing male Drow into Driders and Mystra changing Elminster to a woman.

So while you can make the case that someone in Faerun might be similarly struggling through transition as happens on Earth, it's a pretty weak case. Basically, being trans is not a major issue in Faerun at all. There really wouldn't even be transphobia, like Pretty said, because fixing it would be relatively simple.

Also polymorph other is permanent untill dispelled.

Sounds like trannies allright

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I think that may be looking at things in reverse. Beamdog are small and their game wasn't selling very well even before the tranny stuff really exploded. So when people started reviewbombing them, it actually made a serious impact. It's not that the "GamerGate hordes" really singled out Beamdog for particularly heinous sins, it's just that when they did their regular thing, it was particularly effective this time. And of course, once you've been proven to be vulnerable, that invites even more bullying.

True, but it was compounded by the fact that the game was supposed to fit between two old (and much loved) games and maintain continuity between the two so jarring changes of tone were more noticeable. Then a tumblrific writer who proudly proclaims herself an SJW calls these old games sexist, announces she is changing things and even drops in a Gamergate reference. This was always going to generate a reaction, far more than just making a standard new game with a random tranny in it. And I'd say the review bombing may also be more effective because (in addition to them being small and publishing a small scale game as you mentioned) the people who were actually interested in the game are mostly the types she's set out to annoy, with less of an influx of new blood to balance them out as you'd get with new, shiny casual games.

 

[Tacgnol]

I think that may be looking at things in reverse. Beamdog are small and their game wasn't selling very well even before the tranny stuff really exploded. So when people started reviewbombing them, it actually made a serious impact. It's not that the "GamerGate hordes" really singled out Beamdog for particularly heinous sins, it's just that when they did their regular thing, it was particularly effective this time. And of course, once you've been proven to be vulnerable, that invites even more bullying.

True, but it was compounded by the fact that the game was supposed to fit between two old (and much loved) games and maintain continuity between the two so jarring changes of tone were more noticeable. Then a tumblrific writer who proudly proclaims herself an SJW calls these old games sexist, announces she is changing things and even drops in a Gamergate reference. This was always going to generate a reaction, far more than just making a standard new game with a random tranny in it. And I'd say the review bombing may also be more effective because (in addition to them being small and publishing a small scale game as you mentioned) the people who were actually interested in the game are mostly the types she's set out to annoy, with less of an influx of new blood to balance them out as you'd get with new, shiny casual games.

The Minsc joke probably caused more rage from the GamerGate camp overall. The Tranny was just icing on the cake, and taken alone probably wouldn't have caused much more than a shake of the head.

 

[Immortal]

I think that may be looking at things in reverse. Beamdog are small and their game wasn't selling very well even before the tranny stuff really exploded. So when people started reviewbombing them, it actually made a serious impact. It's not that the "GamerGate hordes" really singled out Beamdog for particularly heinous sins, it's just that when they did their regular thing, it was particularly effective this time. And of course, once you've been proven to be vulnerable, that invites even more bullying.

True, but it was compounded by the fact that the game was supposed to fit between two old (and much loved) games and maintain continuity between the two so jarring changes of tone were more noticeable. Then a tumblrific writer who proudly proclaims herself an SJW calls these old games sexist, announces she is changing things and even drops in a Gamergate reference. This was always going to generate a reaction, far more than just making a standard new game with a random tranny in it. And I'd say the review bombing may also be more effective because (in addition to them being small and publishing a small scale game as you mentioned) the people who were actually interested in the game are mostly the types she's set out to annoy, with less of an influx of new blood to balance them out as you'd get with new, shiny casual games.

The Minsc joke probably caused more rage from the GamerGate camp overall. The Tranny was just icing on the cake, and taken alone probably wouldn't have caused much more than a shake of the head.

This is very true.
If it was just the shitty trans dialogue people would have happily made videos gibbing her over and over and laughing about it. Okay it's a shittly written trans character..but whatever.
The GamerGate joke is much more insidious. You -KNOW- that amber put it in there so she could snort and guffaw with her SJW friends at the local dunken donuts.

This is a clear case of abusing her platform to push an agenda. You can ~claim~ it's a harmless joke after the fact.. but after seeing the interviews with Amber.. we all know that's bullshit. It wasn't a small nudge. It was a slap in the face to 15 year old fans.

I have no remorse. Especially when Dee runs crying to jezebell for help.. this company is irredeemable.

 

[Jarpie]

Seems that people ITT are trying to rationalize. "Why did Beamdog in particular deserve this? Was what they made really that bad?"

I think that may be looking at things in reverse. Beamdog are small and their game wasn't selling very well even before the tranny stuff really exploded. So when people started reviewbombing them, it actually made a serious impact. It's not that the "GamerGate hordes" really singled out Beamdog for particularly harsh treatment, it's just that when they did their regular thing, it was particularly effective this time. And of course, once you've been proven to be vulnerable, that invites even more bullying.

Like I said before, I'd say they themselves brought this on themselves, anyone with half a brain would know that any hot-button political issue will flare like a wildfire, and will bring in crazies from the both ends. I think the shitstorm would've happened even without any of the "social justice"-angle, given, if I've understood correctly, that the game is fucking shit and fucking buggy.

The devs would've done exactly the same, closed down the threads complaining about the game and the bugs, they just seem utterly incapable of handling the business and PR.

 

[Tacgnol]

No sane dev would ever include a GG joke, either pro or anti. It just isn't worth the fallout.

 

[PhantasmaNL]

I think that may be looking at things in reverse. Beamdog are small and their game wasn't selling very well even before the tranny stuff really exploded. So when people started reviewbombing them, it actually made a serious impact. It's not that the "GamerGate hordes" really singled out Beamdog for particularly heinous sins, it's just that when they did their regular thing, it was particularly effective this time. And of course, once you've been proven to be vulnerable, that invites even more bullying.

True, but it was compounded by the fact that the game was supposed to fit between two old (and much loved) games and maintain continuity between the two so jarring changes of tone were more noticeable. Then a tumblrific writer who proudly proclaims herself an SJW calls these old games sexist, announces she is changing things and even drops in a Gamergate reference. This was always going to generate a reaction, far more than just making a standard new game with a random tranny in it. And I'd say the review bombing may also be more effective because (in addition to them being small and publishing a small scale game as you mentioned) the people who were actually interested in the game are mostly the types she's set out to annoy, with less of an influx of new blood to balance them out as you'd get with new, shiny casual games.

Agreed and the "heinous sin" as infinitron calls it, can be singled out, it is the spitting on the franchise, deemed sexist and in need of fixing, consequently insulting the original customer base, topped of by the apparent need to lecture them on various RL issues. You are not going to sell your BG expansion to a lot of new gamers, you need the old fans. As a small niche company you better cater to them and steer clear from any potential controversy.

And if you reallly need to virtue signal, give Amber a small budget to make her own little game, clearly separating your real world dollar business (BG3, 4 etc) which provides a paycheck from token blue haired fantasyland hobby projects.

 

[Infinitron]

I think the shitstorm would've happened even without any of the "social justice"-angle, given, if I've understood correctly, that the game is fucking shit and fucking buggy.

I know they can be hard to find but nobody ITT who has actually played the game (except AwesomeButton who is in a particularly try-hard mood these days) actually thinks it's "fucking shit".

It might have failed commercially but it wouldn't have been a shitstorm - it would gone out with a whimper rather than a bang.

 

[Tacgnol]

Without the SJ shit people would have been pissed at the bugs/UI problems, those would presumably be fixed by patches.

I think overall it would have been remembered as a mediocre RPG with bad launch problems.

 

[Ellef]

I think the shitstorm would've happened even without any of the "social justice"-angle, given, if I've understood correctly, that the game is fucking shit and fucking buggy.

I know they can be hard to find but nobody ITT who has actually played the game (except AwesomeButton who is in a particularly try-hard mood these days) actually thinks it's "fucking shit".

It might have failed commercially but it wouldn't have been a shitstorm - it would gone out with a whimper rather than a bang.

Is there any game you won't shill for if the developers post here?

 

[Immortal]

nobody ITT who has actually played the game actually thinks it's "fucking shit".

People who don't like a game, won't play it..?!?!?!