Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[FriendlyMerchant]

Battle Brothers has a similar armor system.

Armor should deflect blows or mitigate damage, armor as a secondary hp bar which makes you immune to lots of powers is silly. You can't make a "DC caster" thanks to this shit. Imagine that you are playing EverQuest, Icewind dale or any game as a Gnome illusionist/Enchanter, can you imagine having to spam fireballs before you attempt to charm/dominate the "goy"? Or playing as a Ventrue in VtMB with such mechanic? Ohh before I use presence or domination in the enemy I need to empty my Desert Eagle in his head, after this I can dominate him.

That mechanic is nonsensical and kills save or else spells.

5E already nerfed such spells a lot and gave legendary resistance which is a way to take out a bit of the RNG of the game. In Kingmaker, there is a guy who destroyed Spawn of Rovagug with a mere tier 4 "phantasmal killer" spell : https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1645418344567598037/

With 41 illusion DC(achievable, see the steam link above), on normal, he needs to hit 13 in a d20 to pass the fortitude save and 15 the will save meaning about 42% chances of instantly dying to a gnome illusionist. If you have a party tanking while you spam spells, using all tier 9 spell slots, that is about 97% chances of killing him before running out of spells.

Please read the rest of my post before copying from your blog goy.

 

[Cryomancer]

Please read the rest of my post before copying from your blog goy.

Sorry, forgot to read "Plus you don't have to break through an armor bar to apply status effects like stun or burning."

And it makes sense, even in a magicless world, if I hit the unarmored leg of someone with an poison dagger/arrow, that person will be poisoned.

 

[Reinhardt]

Battle Brothers

I hit the unarmored leg of someone

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

At the 40 minutes mark, if the timestamp doesn't work for whatever reason.

Honestly, armor in DOS2 is the WORST that I saw in any RPG... Anyway, IDK why DOS2 is so popular, I mean, Divine Divinity was so great...

It's kinda weird though since Battle Brothers has a similar armor system. Though it works way better since it doesn't split between melee and magic damage (magic's not even really in the game) and certain weapons are good for penetrating and breaking armor. Plus you don't have to break through an armor bar to apply status effects like stun or burning.

They are not really THAT similar. The only sensible analogy is that in BB too armors are presented as a "Health bar" but that's closer to be the armor durability than anything else.
The way different types of weapons penetrate/destroy/ignore armor at different rates, the narrow "numeric range" these armors can actually climb up to, etc, all contribute to make the mechanic substantially different.

Also, I don't know to what updates you and Cryomancer stopped playing it, but BB has SOME magic now. Resisting it is NOT determined by armor, though, but by the "willpower stat" (couldn't remember the exact name to save my life and I can't be bothered to go and check), proximity to a sergeant, etc, etc.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

At the 40 minutes mark, if the timestamp doesn't work for whatever reason.

Honestly, armor in DOS2 is the WORST that I saw in any RPG... Anyway, IDK why DOS2 is so popular, I mean, Divine Divinity was so great...

It's kinda weird though since Battle Brothers has a similar armor system. Though it works way better since it doesn't split between melee and magic damage (magic's not even really in the game) and certain weapons are good for penetrating and breaking armor. Plus you don't have to break through an armor bar to apply status effects like stun or burning.

They are not really THAT similar. The only sensible analogy is that in BB too armors are presented as a "Health bar" but that's closer to be the armor durability than anything else.
The way different types of weapons penetrate/destroy/ignore armor at different rates, the narrow "numeric range" these armors can actually climb up to, etc, all contribute to make the mechanic substantially different.

There are bonuses added to the weapons in which affect whether or not they can ignore the armor or enhance how much you ignore. But that function is on the weapon side of things and has more to do with damage modifiers to those, it has nothing to do with the function of the armor in game. Hammers are more effective against armor and get bonuses to drive its hp down where swords get penalties. Battle Brothers just includes ways to ignore armor or quickly negate the armor via choice of weapons whereas DOS2 doesn't.

The type of armor you use only matters for fatigue management or perks for damage reduction and in that way it's different. However, ignoring the perk Battleforged which reduces damage to armor (which doesn't change how it actually operates, it just reduces the damage it takes), Armor is fundamentally just fatigue penalty and durability. Armor's durability is precisely a health bar that prevents damage to you according to how much health it has. A rose by any other name is a rose. The only real difference between DOS2's armor and BB's armor is that BB armor has a fatigue penalty.

Also, I don't know to what updates you and Cryomancer stopped playing it, but BB has SOME magic now. Resisting it is NOT determined by armor, though, but by the "willpower stat" (couldn't remember the exact name to save my life and I can't be bothered to go and check), proximity to a sergeant, etc, etc.

It's resolve. However that applies to only a few enemies so it doesn't matter most of the time. Most of the magic you come across is Goblin Shamans whose abilities don't go through resolve. It's just the vines or the fly swarm. The other cases are mental, charm from hexen, the paralyze from the undead priests, and the sleep from alps.

Proximity to a character with the "Rally the Troops" perk matters when using the ability (within four tiles, but a penalty for each square away). But it doesn't affect your odds as to whether or not you'll be under the effects of magic. Otherwise, a Banner which might be common on a sergeant is also within four tiles. But it only has an effect because it just gives everyone in four tiles a resolve bonus.

 

[rojay]

At the 40 minutes mark, if the timestamp doesn't work for whatever reason.

Honestly, armor in DOS2 is the WORST that I saw in any RPG... Anyway, IDK why DOS2 is so popular, I mean, Divine Divinity was so great...

It's kinda weird though since Battle Brothers has a similar armor system. Though it works way better since it doesn't split between melee and magic damage (magic's not even really in the game) and certain weapons are good for penetrating and breaking armor. Plus you don't have to break through an armor bar to apply status effects like stun or burning.

They are not really THAT similar. The only sensible analogy is that in BB too armors are presented as a "Health bar" but that's closer to be the armor durability than anything else.
The way different types of weapons penetrate/destroy/ignore armor at different rates, the narrow "numeric range" these armors can actually climb up to, etc, all contribute to make the mechanic substantially different.

Also, I don't know to what updates you and Cryomancer stopped playing it, but BB has SOME magic now. Resisting it is NOT determined by armor, though, but by the "willpower stat" (couldn't remember the exact name to save my life and I can't be bothered to go and check), proximity to a sergeant, etc, etc.

The stat is "resolve." I believe the closer you are to the Sergeant, the bigger the bonus and "rally" has a four-tile area of effect.

 

[Desiderius]

Save or else sux.

D:OS2 Armor system is great. Too easily bypassed by some effects tho.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Save or else sux.

D:OS2 Armor system is great.

Nah, it was genuinely terrible.
When even the developer comes out and admit it was a mistake, it's time to give up on it.

BUT I have to say that I've seen modders turning it into something conceptually far better, where Physical and Magical armors had far lower values and they were basically used to mitigate damage of that respective type of the indicated amount, rather than filter it out entirely (too bad the mod itself came with a lot of other baggage and you had to take the full package to tweak the armor system).

 

[Reinhardt]

everything that makes dress-wearers butthurt is gud.

 

[Desiderius]

Save or else sux.

D:OS2 Armor system is great.

Nah, it was genuinely terrible.
When even the developer comes out and admit it was a mistake, it's time to give up on it.

BUT I have to say that I've seen modders turning it into something conceptually far better, where Physical and Magical armors had far lower values and they were basically used to mitigate damage of that respective type of the indicated amount, rather than filter it out entirely (too bad the mod itself came with a lot of other baggage and you had to take the full package to tweak the armor system).

C’mon man, with alternating initiative the games degenerate into stunlock tag. The biggest downside of the Armor system is that there were still ways around it (Choloform? definitely Teleport) that ignored it.

I seriously think most of you are looking for one weird trick to relieve you of the burden of actually playing these games. Ironically the game I’ve been playing now whose combat is widely renowned (Wizardry 8) plays out with virtual Magic Armor since overleveled mobs are more resistant to your CC so you just have to nuke them instead in many cases.

In D:OSII the nukes open up the CC (or you can do what I did and have Physical developed as well) and if there weren’t so many ways to bypass it you’d also have to pay attention to defense for a change as you do in Wiz 8 (speedy Soul Shield/Elemental Shield).

Biggest weakness of both D:OS games is that you run out of new skills/abilities/spells midgame like an MMO. And the exponential itemization chase (also MMO).

 

[Larianshill]

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Save or else sux.

D:OS2 Armor system is great. Too easily bypassed by some effects tho.

codexers got filtered by the armor system hard, it's why they cry about it so much

 

[Swen]

Tuco, time to sign up:

https://larian.com/playtest

Better not. I can already imagine a possible outcome.

We exchange niceties, we are introduced in the playtest area, we sit to play, after a while I start talking shit about the UI and controls, the Larian guy supervising guest testers minimizes and tries to defend it, I insist "No, look, I'm not joking anymore, it sucks for real", he gets a bit over-defensive, I get a bit pissed, we raise our voice, we start throwing hands and two days later I'm spending jail time in Belgium.

If you come to Larian, I will give you VIP treatment.

Just sign up, we will make you feel like home and make you several pasta dishes.

 

[Sarathiour]

I'm actually not that far from the test site, so it's tempting from a shitposting perspective alone.

 

[underground nymph]

If you come to Larian, I will give you VIP treatment.

Just sign up, we will make you feel like home and make you several pasta dishes.

Swen creepily staring at Tuco as him dipping his fork into a pasta with something remotely resembling calamari. His mouth is half opened, featuring a mix of smile and a grin of a hungry animal.
— So about that control scheme in the game of yours.
— Nah, nah, nah. — Swen impatiently waives with his hand. — First you eat, then we discuss whatever you like. — He licks his lips and grins again continuing looking at a fork submerged into a calamari pasta.

 

[Aarwolf]

Just sign up, we will make you feel like home and make you several pasta dishes.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Tuco, time to sign up:

https://larian.com/playtest

Better not. I can already imagine a possible outcome.

We exchange niceties, we are introduced in the playtest area, we sit to play, after a while I start talking shit about the UI and controls, the Larian guy supervising guest testers minimizes and tries to defend it, I insist "No, look, I'm not joking anymore, it sucks for real", he gets a bit over-defensive, I get a bit pissed, we raise our voice, we start throwing hands and two days later I'm spending jail time in Belgium.

If you come to Larian, I will give you VIP treatment.

Just sign up, we will make you feel like home and make you several pasta dishes.

Think Volrath can confirm they make p. good sandwiches at larian hq.

 

[Cryomancer]

filtered

Not liking = being filtered?

 

[Junmarko]

Better not. I can already imagine a possible outcome.

We exchange niceties, we are introduced in the playtest area, we sit to play, after a while I start talking shit about the UI and controls, the Larian guy supervising guest testers minimizes and tries to defend it, I insist "No, look, I'm not joking anymore, it sucks for real", he gets a bit over-defensive, I get a bit pissed, we raise our voice, we start throwing hands and two days later I'm spending jail time in Belgium.

"He made comments about our shitty UI, which we translated as: ...just don't like turn-based combat".

"Will you be looking into what's bad about the UI?"

"...you have a problem with turn-based combat too?"

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Not liking = being filtered?

Nothing to see. He's a moron who genuinely thinks that not liking a mechanic or system must necessarily mean being unable to take advantage of it.

 

[MjKorz]

Low level DnD is cringe.

No, low level DnD is the best, where you have to be creative with your limited resources instead of relying on nuke spells and OP skills. This is why BG > BG2.

Nope, it's shit, because you don't get to play with the entirety of the tactical toolkit the magic system offers.

I can understand games having a level cap of 17-18, but anything below that is just dumbed-down popamole that limits the potential tactical depth on purpose.

If you're concerned with the game being too easy due to abundance of tactical options, just make better encounters where enemy party members work in synergy. Tactics and Ascension are good examples of this approach and I'd take content like this over something like ToEE any day of the week.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I'm seeing on both the official forum and Steam a lot of people desperately trying to come up with "reaction" systems that would not involve the need for confirmation (so no reactive at all, in the end).

"But what if we had a separate mini-turn where all reactions are concentrated?"
"What if we had a scripting system where you set the conditions for having a reaction trigger or not?"
"What if we made reactions infinite and kept them automated as they are now?"
Etc, etc, etc.

Why don't you just let me, you know, REACT to things and confirm them on a case-by-case basis? For how I see it, any alternate solution that would require PRE-PLANNING is inherently a failure.
You could make an argument for having a crude pop-up in the middle of the screen being a bit rough as a solution in terms of visual presentation, but if presentation and production value are the real issue there are a few dozens ways to present the same exact concept in a fancier, prettier way.

I swear, it seems to me that there's a disproportionate amount of effort going on to circumvent a problem that doesn't even exist.
It's like witnessing a bunch of people putting together a plan to dig some complex network of tunnels under the sewers so they can leave a building that had all the doors open the entire time.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'm seeing on both the official forum and Steam a lot of people desperately trying to come up with "reaction" systems that would not involve the need for confirmation (so no reactive at all, in the end).

"But what if we had a separate mini-turn where all reactions are concentrated?"
"What if we had a scripting system where you set the conditions for having a reaction trigger or not?"
"What if we made reactions infinite and kept them automated as they are now?"
Etc, etc, etc.

Why don't you just let me, you know, REACT to things and confirm them on a case-by-case basis? For how I see it, any alternate solution that would require PRE-PLANNING is inherently a failure.
You could make an argument for having a crude pop-up in the middle of the screen being a bit rough as a solution in terms of visual presentation, but if presentation and production value are the real issue there are a few dozens ways to present the same exact concept in a fancier, prettier way.

I swear, it seems to me that there's a disproportionate amount of effort going on to circumvent a problem that doesn't even exist.
It's like witnessing a bunch of people putting together a plan to dig some complex network of tunnels under the sewers so they can leave a building that had all the doors open the entire time.

For the benefit of the ignorant barbarian, how does reaction work right now?

 

[underground nymph]

Pop-ups is shitty way to do reactions (I didn’t like the way it is done in Solasta), but may be the only option really.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

For the benefit of the ignorant barbarian, how does reaction work right now?

Well, the short version would be "they don't".
But putting more effort into it...

So far we have just some of the most basic types of reactions (attack of opportunity if someone moves in your area of control, Riposte (if have the skill) when someone attacks you and misses, etc) and the way they work is that they are toggles that you can activate to take that type of reaction automatically when the chance comes.
If the toggle is disabled, on the other hand, you just pass on the reaction without any request of confirmation.

Now, this is fairly lame but mostly functional when it comes to basic reactions that don't consume resources. The problem will come as stuff like Shield (the spell), counter-spell, etc will enter the arena (OR NOT, if Larian decides to skip on them), since these are reactions that consume limited resources AND what's at stake is a bit more than "taking your chance to give a bonus swing). For instance an automated Counter-spell would have high chances to get wasted on a cantrip or stopping some stupid buff, when you ideally want to save it to intercept the enemy caster throwing a fireball at your party.

Admittedly I can understand a dev wanting to find some alternate solution for something like Cutting Words, something that can be called at will (like an instant/interrupt in Magic) to debuff basically ANY ongoing enemy action... But I don't think fringe cases like this should dictate the entirety of how the reaction system works.

It's also somewhat amusing that Larian is rubbing salt on the wound, making the final boss of their EA (a massive iron golem) an encounter that is built around the idea of kiting the fucker around since he keeps chasing the "last hitter"... And a misplaced AoO there can turn into a serious middle finger to your entire game plan.