Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[rusty_shackleford]

Larian games are closer to tabletop than almost any other computer RPG because they actually reward you for thinking outside the box. "nooo you shouldn't be able to just push people off a ledge to do damage!!!"
...why not? Stop standing next to ledges, dumbass.

Here's the problem with this stupid line of argument:

No one has any problem with the player being able to push opponents over the edge; the issue is that with BG3's implementation of shove "the edge" is literally any spot 4 meters away from a precipice/water body/lava pit.
In some scenarios (like the boat combat in the Underdark) it becomes literally impossible to put yourself in a spot where you CANNOT be shoved into insta-death. And losing the initiative roll is all it takes to be basically a bunch walking corpses.

Then on top of this you have the fact that Shove is not just significantly buffed in terms of range and dangerousness, but it also became a bonus action, which as already pointed makes it so surprisingly convenient to use compared to a lot of other bonus actions (since you don't even have to trade off your attacks to use it) that the AI itself started abusing it over and over and over.

Here's an example (among many) of threads going over the issue: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=836549#Post836549

lmao this guy fell off the edge and blamed the game

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

lmao this guy fell off the edge and blamed the game

Sometime I struggle to grasp where the forum character ends and where the genuine display of mental retardation comes out in full force.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

lmao this guy fell off the edge and blamed the game

Sometime I struggle to grasp where the forum character ends and where the genuine display of mental retardation comes out in full force.

You want the game changed because you're too inept to not position your characters next to ledges.

 

[Jasede]

Rusty playing a Larian game:

*Shove*
*Shove*
*Shove*

Man it's just like pen and paper, where the DM always places the monsters next to ravines, lava, quicksand and puddles of oil.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

You want the game changed because you're too inept to not position your characters next to ledges.

I "want the game to change" because
1- the current implementation is INCORRECT
2- the ideal way to work around the issue pushes for an UNAPPPEALING playstyle that throw plausibility out of the window for a "game-y" exploit-heavy approach.
3- In some cases, as pointed, there is simply NO WAY to "play safe" without abusing save-scumming and rerolls.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You want the game changed because you're too inept to not position your characters next to ledges.

I "want the game to change" because
1- the current implementation is INCORRECT
2- the ideal way to work around the issue pushes for an UNAPPPEALING playstyle that throw plausibility out of the window for a "game-y" exploit-heavy approach.
3- In some cases, as pointed, there is simply NO WAY to "play safe" without abusing save-scumming and rerolls.

lmao now he admits to savescumming

typical

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

lmao now he admits to savescumming
typical

It's getting hard to tell if you literally can't read or if simulating a crippling mental impairment is your way to cope.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

lmao now he admits to savescumming
typical

It's getting hard to tell if you literally can't read or if simulating a crippling mental impairment is your way to cope.

You admitted to savescumming to get past your inability to not stand right next to ledges, and you keep trying to insult my intelligence?

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

You admitted to savescumming to get past your inability

No, I didn't.
You are just too retarded to read things correctly.

I also posted a video (and not MY video) that highlights the issue perfectly. You are just a moron in denial.

 

[Alienman]

It does look a bit silly with dudes sending each other flying. I thought to use shove you had to be next to the edge, not for it to work six meters away.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

It does look a bit silly with dudes sending each other flying. I thought to use shove you had to be next the edge, not for it to work six meters away.

Because it is. It is more than "a bit" silly. It's stupid to the bone.

And it's not coincidental that it's one of the most recurring complaints among players about the current state of EA (probably THE most recurring one, now that reactions have been addressed to an extent).

P.S. Oh, and for the record, Solasta has the "SHOVE" action too and guess what? It's not so disruptive to the balance because their implementation of the mechanic isn't downright retarded.

 

[Gromoer]

They've revised and stepped back from both of those decisions

I may have missed something, did they drop the barrelmancy? How?

 

[CodexTotalWar]

To be fair, the issue with that specific video is as much a Shove issue as it is a water = instant death issue.

Ironically, in that fight if you moved Shove to 5E RAW they'd actually get to shove twice as much because of Extra Attack. Realistically the only way to fix that would be to reduce the launch distance of the shove itself.

I do agree that Shove right now needs better counterplay. Outside of instant-death water (which should really fixed), Feather Fall is usually the play but right now you have to pre-buff with it, whereas it should be a reaction.

 

[mediocrepoet]

They've revised and stepped back from both of those decisions

I may have missed something, did they drop the barrelmancy? How?

I had read somewhere in this thread that they'd dialled it back by reducing the number of barrels. If that's not true it's probably my faulty memory. I haven't touched the EA in about a year or so.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Ironically, in that fight if you moved Shove to 5E RAW they'd actually get to shove twice as much because of Extra Attack. Realistically the only way to fix that would be to reduce the launch distance of the shove itself.

But that's the point. Or at very least one of the main points of contention.
Shove should just allow to push someone 5ft/1,5m away, not to YEET the poor bastard into the stratosphere.

And "being careful of the edges" should simply mean that you shouldn't linger less than 5-10 feet next to one, not that "Anywhere in a five meters radius is potential insta-death".

To add insult to the injury, the wonky physics implementation in the game make it so that things don't just fall (mostly) *vertically* as they should, but gain significant horizontal momentum when height is added to the equation.
Which in layman terms means that an already ridiculous 4m/20ft shove can turn into a 20+ meters throw if some height is involved, turning whoever is doing the pushing in an human trebuchet.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Ironically, in that fight if you moved Shove to 5E RAW they'd actually get to shove twice as much because of Extra Attack. Realistically the only way to fix that would be to reduce the launch distance of the shove itself.

But that's the point. Or at very least one of the main points of contention.
Shove should just allow to push someone 5ft/1,5m away, not to YEET the poor bastard into the stratosphere.

And "being careful of the edges" should simply mean that you shouldn't linger less than 5-10 feet next to one, not that "Anywhere in a five meters radius is potential insta-death".

To add insult to the injury, the wonky physics implementation in the game make it so that things don't just fall (mostly) *vertically* as they should, but gain significant horizontal momentum when height is added to the equation.
Which in layman terms means that an already ridiculous 4m/20ft shove can turn into a 20+ meters throw if some height is involved, turning whoever is doing the pushing in an human trebuchet.

I still fondly remember launching Lae'zel off the side of the airship right after she was introduced. It was like she had Boba Fett's malfunctioning jetpack on.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

being able to shove people around is fucking great

 

[Rhobar121]

I don't know if anyone cares, but BG3 is coming to GeForce NOW.

 

[Harthwain]

But that's the point. Or at very least one of the main points of contention.
Shove should just allow to push someone 5ft/1,5m away, not to YEET the poor bastard into the stratosphere.

My guess it is done that way to keep it from being too niche.

 

[mediocrepoet]

But that's the point. Or at very least one of the main points of contention.
Shove should just allow to push someone 5ft/1,5m away, not to YEET the poor bastard into the stratosphere.

My guess it is done that way to keep it from being too niche.

It's also fairly entertaining. It wouldn't be quite so bad if it wasn't a bonus action so you could just spam it risk-free every round. That alone makes combat stupid like a Benny Hill farce, as someone (Tuco?) said above.

 

[Volourn]

Rusty: Shoving people is 'realistic' and part of pnp rules.

Also Rusty: Water being insta death is a-okay even though in pnp water is NOT insta death.


LMFAO

So.. which is it? Are you pro pnp rules or not?

 

[mediocrepoet]

Rusty: Shoving people is 'realistic' and part of pnp rules.

Also Rusty: Water being insta death is a-okay even though in pnp water is NOT insta death.


LMFAO

So.. which is it? Are you pro pnp rules or not?

He's usually pro-whatever gets a rise out of people, especially if it's inconsistent since that irritates anyone who's paying attention. Imo of course, YMMV.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Rusty: Shoving people is 'realistic' and part of pnp rules.

Also Rusty: Water being insta death is a-okay even though in pnp water is NOT insta death.


LMFAO

So.. which is it? Are you pro pnp rules or not?

He's usually pro-whatever gets a rise out of people, especially if it's inconsistent since that irritates anyone who's paying attention. Imo of course, YMMV.

I think I found your answer

 

[Infinitron]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1086940/view/3640633392760507300

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