Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Hace El Oso]

Honestly if that would the choice I'd take Deadfire henchmen over "We'll have just six-seven companions in the entire game because we want each one of them to be a fucking origin story" (and cost ten times as much to make).

So you're into wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle game design, eh? You still have mercenaries for hire if you dislike the premade characters, but there's no point in having half-assed companions whose characterization amounts to looks and a few lines of inconsequential dialogue. Fully fleshed out companions on the other hand are both better characterized and have their own content associated with them in the form of quests and (presumably) interact with and/or impact the story.

I appreciate the benefits of having more deeply developed companions, but I do miss the BG1 school of companions where you had enough to choose from that you could accept casualties and keep playing.
It helped build the feeling of actually running an itinerant party of adventurers. After a while reminiscing was a bit like this:

 

[Cryomancer]

EVERYONE hated HP bloat. Not surprised

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...PmuhGl3qdH_eKI0I_zM01Me0q_2q5Dg/viewanalytics

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=712680&page=1


PS : I an the guy who suggested succubus familiar for warlock. Is one of the few things which I miss on AoC

I guess when Swen said "It's not fun missing" so long ago, this was his solution.

Not even larian fanboys liked his ""solution"". Probably only larian fanboys which only plays using martial classes and don't care about lethality and combat flow/speed liked that change.. He should AT least made this BS optional.

 

[Ontopoly]

Not even larian fanboys liked his ""solution"". Probably only larian fanboys which only plays using martial classes and don't care about lethality and combat flow/speed liked that change.. He should AT least made this BS optional.

The game is optional and you fucked up by buying it. I specifically told you people not to buy the game. You buy the game, you deal with larian shit. All who complain about the game brought it upon tehmselves for rejecting my warnings.

 

[Gyor]

Honestly if that would the choice I'd take Deadfire henchmen over "We'll have just six-seven companions in the entire game because we want each one of them to be a fucking origin story" (and cost ten times as much to make).

It's going to be more then seven, I'd say 10 at minimum.

 

[Cryomancer]

Not even larian fanboys liked his ""solution"". Probably only larian fanboys which only plays using martial classes and don't care about lethality and combat flow/speed liked that change.. He should AT least made this BS optional.

The game is optional and you fucked up by buying it. I specifically told you people not to buy the game. You buy the game, you deal with larian shit. All who complain about the game brought it upon tehmselves for rejecting my warnings.

According to the stream that I've watched, I din't saw any HP bloat. And I tough "nah, Swen should't be that retarded to RUIN the pacing and all spells cuz he thinks that missing while playing as a martial class is not fun, he probably will give a hidden +5 to hit after missing to the player and enemies, maybe homebrew some cool psionics and buffs since you have a tadpole infused with dark magic in your brain" but I was wrong...

He did the WORST possible thing.

 

[Murk]

He did the WORST possible thing.

Okay, calm down. You don't like it, but WORST thing possible?

 

[Cryomancer]

He did the WORST possible thing.

Okay, calm down. You don't like it, but WORST thing possible?

Can you give a worse suggestion?

 

[Lawntoilet]

He did the WORST possible thing.

Okay, calm down. You don't like it, but WORST thing possible?

Can you give a worse suggestion?

Make Uninstaller.exe delete Systems
Is this plausible? I don't know, I can't read Swen's mind. But for sure it would be worse!

 

[Cryomancer]

When I mean is the worse, i mean in the scope of game hit/deflect/miss chance. If was up to me, I would have a OPTIONAL rule that after a miss, you get +5 to hit, so if you have 50% chance to hit, is impossible to miss 3x in a row. Missing 2 times in a row would only happen on 12.5% of cases(50%*25%) The same applies to enemies. But back on ToEE, I had a sorc with 7 DEX who at lv 3 managed to miss more than 20 times in a row when I was trying to rest, but when he hit, the enemy took so much damage that was satisfying.

Part of the appeal of D&D is to be a power fantasy(not only that but is one of the main appeals). I own a 175 lbf crossbow and love practice shooting with it. Now imagine the power to have a eldritch at will crossbow with unlimited ammo and no reload required, is even cooler than a IRL crossbow and that is Eldritch Blast(and BTW crossbow bolts are expensive, you can reuse a lot but eventually they break). If you make even low lv goblins able to sustain multiple shots of this eldritch crossbow, you kill the fantasy of having a cool power.

 

[Murk]

He did the WORST possible thing.

Okay, calm down. You don't like it, but WORST thing possible?

Can you give a worse suggestion?

Yeah, they could have done away with armor class altogether and made it guaranteed hit and just bloated HP like mad. It's not hard to think of worse things, nevermind THE WORST thing.

Why be so hyperbolic when you can just say you don't like it?

 

[Lawntoilet]

When I mean is the worse, i mean in the scope of game hit/deflect/miss chance. If was up to me, I would have a OPTIONAL rule that after a miss, you get +5 to hit, so if you have 50% chance to hit, is impossible to miss 3x in a row. Missing 2 times in a row would only happen on 12.5% of cases(50%*25%) The same applies to enemies. But back on ToEE, I had a sorc with 7 DEX who at lv 3 managed to miss more than 20 times in a row when I was trying to rest, but when he hit, the enemy took so much damage that was satisfying.

Part of the appeal of D&D is to be a power fantasy(not only that but is one of the main appeals). I own a 175 lbf crossbow and love practice shooting with it. Now imagine the power to have a eldritch at will crossbow with unlimited ammo and no reload required, is even cooler than a IRL crossbow and that is Eldritch Blast(and BTW crossbow bolts are expensive, you can reuse a lot but eventually they break). If you make even low lv goblins able to sustain multiple shots of this eldritch crossbow, you kill the fantasy of having a cool power.

Missing feels bad, but one-shotting something with a crit feels great.
There's a reason there are so many "you had to be there" kind of D&D stories that hinge on a clutch Nat20 roll.
HP bloat+AC nerf removes the butthurt of attacking and missing, but also removes the elation of getting the right roll at the right moment to one-shot a nigga and turn the tide of the fight due to luck. Steam reviewers may not like it but D&D's swingy nature is part of the appeal.

 

[Lawntoilet]

He did the WORST possible thing.

Okay, calm down. You don't like it, but WORST thing possible?

Can you give a worse suggestion?

Yeah, they could have done away with armor class altogether and made it guaranteed hit and just bloated HP like mad. It's not hard to think of worse things, nevermind THE WORST thing.

Why be so hyperbolic when you can just say you don't like it?

Expeditions: Viking kinda does this - melee attacks always hit, ranged attacks still have a %chance based on gear and distance, and shields have a %chance to block (if used).
But that is a completely different system balanced around those considerations. Merely re-jiggering AC and HP in 5e is a different animal altogether.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

D&D has always been a game where you can still make all the right choices and lose badly because of dice rolls. It's not something like Battletech where you can mitigate poor dice rolls through good player decisions.
OTOH, the DMG has always advocated for the DM to secretly fudge the dice so they don't get in the way of a good narrative.

Spoiler

Yes, your DM fudged rolls without you knowing.

 

[Murk]

I guess I just don't feel that strongly about it. It's hard to judge the large scale repercussions of something like that, or how far they'll fudge AC/HP in later enemies as well.

If it ends up being just a sponge fest then sure, but if it's reserved for starting areas and normalizes later then eh.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Never fudge shit! Play the dark sun way and come prepared with 3 character sheets to survive campaign attrition

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Also, what are we arguing about again? A future default difficulty setting or something? The tutorial wolf being re-tuned?

 

[purupuru]

If they are nerfing AC they should nerf player's AC as well (or give monster extra to-hit which is much easier), then maybe normies will see how the "not fun" missing is what has been keeping their low level party alive the whole time.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Just make default difficulty normie mode and then add the higher difficulty modes that almost all of us will play on. EZ PZ

 

[rusty_shackleford]

that almost all of us will play on

Fabulously optimistic.
Reality: most of the codex will play it on the easiest mode and pretend they played it on the hardest mode then go on to make posts about things that only happen in the casual mode.

 

[Harthwain]

Is it really that crazy to think that missing 2/3 of your attacks is not very fun? It's not like they removed missing, you still miss a lot. Obviously the AC->HP change unbalances many aspects of the system, but that's fixable...

The thinking is that if you're missing 2/3 of your attacks, then you must be doing something wrong, because most RNG systems (including DnD) offer ways to increase your chance to hit a target. And if you don't want to miss at all, then you better avoid RNG-related systems in favour of deterministic systems.

I actually think the higher degree of variance is more fun. But I’m a psycho who enjoys stuff like Blood Bowl and card games

Indeed. Blood Bowl can be infuriating, but "anything can happen" is what keeps the game fresh and interesting.

Why be so hyperbolic when you can just say you don't like it?

It adds drama.

OTOH, the DMG has always advocated for the DM to secretly fudge the dice so they don't get in the way of a good narrative.

It does suggest that the game can secretely cheat in your favour if you don't succeed with your rolls. Hard West had interesting "Luck" mechanic. You couldn't rely on it all the time, but it did help in some situations when you'd be screwed otherwise.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Honestly if that would the choice I'd take Deadfire henchmen over "We'll have just six-seven companions in the entire game because we want each one of them to be a fucking origin story" (and cost ten times as much to make).

So you're into wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle game design, eh? You still have mercenaries for hire if you dislike the premade characters, but there's no point in having half-assed companions whose characterization amounts to looks and a few lines of inconsequential dialogue. Fully fleshed out companions on the other hand are both better characterized and have their own content associated with them in the form of quests and (presumably) interact with and/or impact the story.

I appreciate the benefits of having more deeply developed companions, but I do miss the BG1 school of companions where you had enough to choose from that you could accept casualties and keep playing.
It helped build the feeling of actually running an itinerant party of adventurers. After a while reminiscing was a bit like this:

To each their own. A few token lines don't cut it for the storyfag in me, so picking fewer companions than the party limit and then supplementing the open slots with mercenaries seems like a fair compromise to me.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

It does suggest that the game can secretely cheat in your favour if you don't succeed with your rolls. Hard West had interesting "Luck" mechanic. You couldn't rely on it all the time, but it did help in some situations when you'd be screwed otherwise.

Dungeon of Nahbeulheuk has a mechanic where when you get bad rolls, it adds to a meter that has 4 tiers of bonus you can spend. The first level is an extra action point (it's a nuXCOM kind of game) and the later levels are heals and a teleport. You can still have a blood bowl style round of eating shit and critical failures but it can help you mitigate the random events without denying them. For example, you might really want to kill something right now and so you can use the extra action point to make your own luck.

I also think there is a subtle psychological thing going on, where even if the effect isn't nearly as good as if you just didn't roll shitty, it's an "oh hey" kind of thing when you at least get to watch the meter fill up a little. I don't want to oversell it, but I think it's a nice touch.

 

[Yosharian]

As a DM I never fudge rolls, as I feel that's cheating the players out of an authentic experience.

However I do sometimes modify the statistics of a creature on the fly if I realise I have horribly underestimated the party's strength. Or overestimated, in some cases.

Only rarely though.

 

[gunman]

I played until I noticed I reached max level for EA, then I lost any interest and uninstalled.

Pathfinder:Kingmaker >>> BG3

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Can you give a worse suggestion?[/QUOTE]

Is it really that crazy to think that missing 2/3 of your attacks is not very fun? It's not like they removed missing, you still miss a lot. Obviously the AC->HP change unbalances many aspects of the system, but that's fixable...

The thinking is that if you're missing 2/3 of your attacks, then you must be doing something wrong, because most RNG systems (including DnD) offer ways to increase your chance to hit a target.

XCOM 2 comes to mind.
For all the inane bitching people love to do about "missing 90% shots", it takes a couple of ranks and then the game gives countless tools to rarely ever have to rely on luck.
By mid game a competent player can go through a mission hardly ever even attempting stuff below a 95% chance to hit.