Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[The_Mask]

That was evil.

Evil? That was a light clap on the back. Evil would've been to use "doth" and "mere" mixed up in witty stab at his intellect. He got away easy.

 

[Lacrymas]

That hasn't stopped anyone who didn't want to be stopped ever.

Plot twist: jaheira is the wife.
Not joking.

That would be delicious if true. I can't wait for her husband to cuck her with me. She may join, but only look.

 

[Cryomancer]

I only created a single thread about nwn2 nerfs... Sorry for wanting a 3.5E adaptation to be faithful to 3.5E. That is heresy here. Every game should be like Sword Coast Legends. /s

Hey man, I feel you. I wanted so badly a faithful 3.5 adaptation that I started working on it in my spare time.

I promised to not bash 5e or Larian any more, but wanna to address few points.

• 1 - There are a LOT of good 3.XE adaptations.

Pathfinder Kingmaker is based on 3.75E pf1e and is the best modern game by far. We also have knights of the chalice 1/2, Low Magic Age, both NWN games and spell fixes for nwn2 and so on. 2E has even more good adaptations into CRPG's. Only on gog, you can get first person dungeon crawlers like Dungeon Hack, Eye of the Beholder, Menzoberranzan, Ravenloft : Strahd possession and stone prophet, can get over the top dark sun games like shattered lands and wake of the ravager can get the entire gold box games. 2E has a lot of amazing CRPG's. I never got the opportunity to play TT 2E. The closest thing is S&W which took a very long time for me to get a group.

• 1.2 The unique good 5E adaptation is Solasta : Crown of the Magister.

And even Solasta, would be far better if was 2E or 3.XE. Or a CRPG adaptation of a retroclone. Just imagine lamentations of the flame princess ported into a CRPG with the same quality as Solasta. That would be a huge incline. Larian can't even make a firebolt and disengage right.

• 2 - Wizards of the Coast = Electronic Farts of tabletop gaming.

TSR was a much better company. And due Woketards idea of promoting the current edition, we have zero chance of getting games like the Gold Box again. Paizo in other hands tried to appeal to the modern crowd which doesn't care about game mechanics being in line with game setting, lore and concepts? Yes, but contrary to woketards, they allowed OwlCat to make their next game on PF1e, a much superior ruleset. Woketards are the electronic farts of the tabletop gaming. The greatest cause of decline is the idea that game mechanics should be just game mechanics with no relation to the game unvierse itself. It bough abominations like Diablo 3, ArcaniA, etc. I an not saying that RPG's needs to be GURPS style simulationistic games. Only that just that game mechanics are like artstyle and music and should reinforce the "fictional universe", not be a obstacle in player's immersion.

• 4 - Swen is right in some points.

When Swen(the guy here, not the guy in Larian) call us boomers, he is not completely wrong. Larian appeals to "modernfags"... I bet that Larianshill and most of the Larian fanbase would probably like D&D 4E. In fact, if 4E was launched few years later, after "ludonarrative dissonance" had become the norm to the point that people doesn't even expect that a spell/psionic/weapon called disintegrate would actually disintegrate stuff(like in any old RPG with it), 4E would probably be a success. If 4E was launched on 2014, it would have been a success.

• 5 - Modern RPG fans and old school RPG fans like completely different subgenres.

The fact that even here in Codex, you don't see "larian cultists" in old school threads and old school style game threads only corroborate my point. I received much less negative response when I said that disintegrate should disintegrate here, then when I mentioned greater disintegrate and green mage on KoTC 2 thread which instantly kills the target or at least deals 8d8 damage if he succeed his save.



And that is it. Sorry for the long text and posting here after saying that I will avoid thraeds like this, but I just wanted to address some points.

 

[Larianshill]

Just when I thought I was out, they PULL ME BACK IN

 

[Anonona]

I promised to not bash 5e or Larian any more, but wanna to address few points.

Why and to whom? I think most have not problem so much with your opinion on certain editions, games or companies as much as that a lot of the time you can come off as repetitive, uninformed, misrepresenting of the other side arguments or sometimes off-topic or changing the heart of the discussion on a whim. No need to self-censor nor act the victim. You can be quite passionate and have some very good points when you want. Just tone down the number of times you repeat certain arguments and work on them a bit more and I'm certain you would receive less backlash. Also stop using names other had made up so much, it feels forced.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I only have a problem with his autism about casters being mistreated.

 

[Anonona]

I only have a problem with his autism about casters being mistreated.

I may be wrong, as I have very limited knowledge of 5E (and D&D in general to be fair), but even after being nerfed, aren't all kind of casters but sorcerers considered still the most powerful classes in 5E by a lot? Specially with multi classing to gain some sweet features like being able to wear armors among other things? I don't have really that much experience of the system but it seems that the general impression I got in many discussions online is that, while it is more balanced, caster supremacy is still very much a thing. For example, I read that by the rules warlock could theoretically use its familiar to cast spells at ridiculous long distances, and spells like force cage can be immensely useful even if some counters exists and things like that. Is that so or just people actually being too harsh on casters?

Also related to BG3. Wasn't firebolt actually buffed from PnP because although the spell itself did less damage, 1d6, it left a fire sufarce that did 1d4 and also inflicted burning which added another 1d4 and now it has been changed how it was supposed to be? Also considering that it seems that enemy HP isn't bloated as much as different enemies of the same type having different HP values to give them more diversity as was pointed out, I think the claim that Larian is nerfing casters may be a bit overblown.

 

[Cryomancer]

I only have a problem with his autism about casters being mistreated.

I already made my point many times, that being a caster in any Larian game is not fun for me. Divine Divinity is the unique exception(is passable) and I never played dragon commander to gave a honest opinion and that 5e already has very lackluster spells, mainly those of necromancy, enchantment, alteration and conjuration. You can't compare 3E cloudkill with 5E cloudkill, nor 2E disintegrate with 5E disintegrate, nor 2E finger of death with 5E finger of death. However, Anonona is absolutelly right. I repeated my point many times.

I got in many discussions online is that, while it is more balanced, caster supremacy is still very much a thing

Tome of Battle solved the caster X martial imbalance far before 4E did in a much less "lets make a tabletop wow clone". However, there are a lot of discrepancy among casters. For example, if you wanna play as a pyromaniac all about flashy fire spells, 5E can be quite fun. If you wanna play as a wizard focused on alteration, where most of his spells are utility, supporting the party, etc; you will suffer a lot. Stoneskin a 4th level spell which on 3E gave DR 10/+5, on 5E just gives resistance to non magical weapons.

Mirror image a 2th tier spell offers more protection, require no concentration and can deflect way more hits.

But this is a general opinion about 5E. On BG3 is even worse. You can't even have a mage hand and a familiar at the same time which heavily indicates that necromancy and conjuration will gonna be even worse than already are on TT, and since cantrips create surface effects which you must have concentration, you can't even have a ultra nerfed version of cloudkill while using your cantrip.

sorry for repeating this point again. I just wanted to make it clear.

 

[NJClaw]

and since cantrips create surface effects which you must have concentration, you can't even have a ultra nerfed version of cloudkill while using your cantrip.

Victor, you can't just combine two false statements to obtain a true one. It doesn't work like that.

Cantrips don't create surfaces and they don't require concentration.

 

[Anonona]

I already made my point many times, that being a caster in any Larian game is not fun for me.

Understandable. I find them actually really fun to play because of their interactivity with the battlefield and for allowing more creative use of their spells compared to martial which are more straightforward. In fact, I'll say they are very powerful but require more thought, both when building them and playing them. Nothing too crazy, but an elf necromancer with the feat of Elemental Affinity is a beast with amazing physical damage and action economy, while making good use of elemental affinity and spells can make you have ridiculous long turn where you cast tons of spells. If you also play as Fane you actually are able to have 2 turns. Add the polymorph spells like the one that recharges your cooldowns and let you use source spells at no cost and you can pull some impressive stuff.

Won't say they are as strong as PF or D&D casters, but I find them very engaging to play. They also are the one that interact with the battlefield the most (teleporting, swapping surfaces, swapping characters, creating clouds, absorbing surfaces and more).

since cantrips create surface effects which you must have concentration, you can't even have a ultra nerfed version of cloudkill while using your cantrip.

I understood that the surface was similar to D:OS2, in that it doesn't need concentration or anything to maintain, it just lit things on fire.

 

[Larianshill]

I may be wrong, as I have very limited knowledge of 5E (and D&D in general to be fair), but even after being nerfed, aren't all kind of casters but sorcerers considered still the most powerful classes in 5E by a lot?

Yes. Sorcerer Victor, of course, doesn't know that, because he doesn't play 5E, and never even read the rulebook. He only knows the memes he repeats over and over, which makes talking to him an incredibly frustrating experience. It's like talking with a very nostalgic tape recorder.

 

[Reinhardt]

I already made my point many times

And that's main problem.

 

[Cryomancer]

Cantrips don't create surfaces and they don't require concentration.

Apparently, Larian fixed Firebolt. Now is d10 damage with no d4 surface. Sorry about that. I was wrong when I said that Larian can't make even firebolt right.

I find them actually really fun to play because of their interactivity with the battlefield

Personally, the interactivity with the battlefield is done in a much more spectacular way on Solasta. Dark Messiah of Might & Magic is amazing in this aspect but is another type of game.

because he doesn't play 5E, and never even read the rulebook.

I readed the rulebook. Sure, never played but my group is happy with S&W and maybe we will gonna try another retroclone like Lamentations of the Flame princess. Why I should play 5E if I can play 3E, 2E, PF1e and dozens of retroclones? 2E is not only the best edition but also bough birthright, mystara, dark sun, ravenloft, spelljammer, planescape(...) and tons of other iconic settings.

 

[Larianshill]

If you love complaining about it so much, might as well get more familiar with the subject.

 

[Anonona]

Personally, the interactivity with the battlefield is done in a much more spectacular way on Solasta. Dark Messiah of Might & Magic is amazing in this aspect but is another type of game.

Both are pretty good examples. I wouldn't say Solasta is strictly better in that department than D:OS 2 (haven't played BG3 yet, so won't comment on that) as it does have many unique spells with interest effects as I said before and as polemic as surfaces can be, the whole system build around them does give place to interesting situations, specially with things like polymorph, bless and curse are involved. But Solasta does offer very unique mechanics that not many other Rpg have. Its verticality and the darkness system are great, and spells like fly do really shine in Solasta. One of the 3 rpgs and really looking foward. Dark Messiah is great, no question asked. It should be seen as a gold standar for how first person action combat in fantasy games should be like. A shame no one really has tried to build upon it and improve it.

 

[Cryomancer]

Not related to spells(I know, I post a lot about spells), but will Larian change the resting system?

I mean, the camp fells disconnected form the world, and you can rest with no limitations, turning per day stuff(not only spells) into per encounter. I know that BG1/2 allowed rest scumming, but I would prefer if you had any system to limit resting, like Solasta has(you can only rest in few places and need to spend rations and food), or like Pathfinder Wrath of The righteous did. Where each rest in on safe locations increases corruption and having high corruption gives heavy attribute penalties, spell failure and etc. A arcane check can mitigate the effects of corruption and make it grow slower. Since Tadpoles are important on BG3 story, the tadpole inflicting penalties when resting in dangerous reasons would be very cool but knowing larian, they will screw up with the resting system. The tadpole also could give certain bonuses to hit, to solve the ""problem"" of missing.

Other thing that would be cool is if the MC tried to become undead to escape the tadpole.

Swen recommended playing as an evil character on BG3, but I wonder how many people played as a evil MC. I mean, I know that lich is the second most popular mythic path on WoTR. I wonder which classes and "route" are the most popular on BG3.

 

[Reinhardt]

Not related to spells(I know, I post a lot about spells)

"continue to rant about spells" Never change, Victor!

 

[Cryomancer]

"continue to rant about spells" Never change, Victor!

Nope. I din't mentioned spells. There are a lot of fighter cool abilities that can only be used once per day, like Action Surge. I mentioned abilities limited per day in general. But yes, I believe that BG3 would be better if had a different resting system

 

[Harthwain]

I mean, the camp fells disconnected form the world, and you can rest with no limitations, turning per day stuff(not only spells) into per encounter.

That's not quite true, considering some quests take into consideration how many times you rest.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

YOU CAN BE LICH! AND SUCCUBUS HAREM! If it's not more epic than not being able to become lich and have succubus harem then i don't know what is.

Yes

Can you explain to me why lich like you wants to be succubus harem?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

YOU CAN BE LICH! AND SUCCUBUS HAREM! If it's not more epic than not being able to become lich and have succubus harem then i don't know what is.

Yes

Can you explain to me why lich like you wants to be succubus harem?

Liches like boning don't they?

 

[Anonona]

Not related to spells(I know, I post a lot about spells), but will Larian change the resting system?

I mean, the camp fells disconnected form the world, and you can rest with no limitations, turning per day stuff(not only spells) into per encounter.

Well, is not enterely inconsequential. As it has been said before, it seems that resting too much can lead a certain number of quest to fail or give worse results. We don't know how many quest will follow this system in the final game or if the main quest will also fail or at least lead to a bad ending if you take too long to finish. Personally, I would like if Larian actually had a kind of a "time limit", and if you rest too much the tadpole should end up consuming your brain. Just like PF:KM, a time limit that is not too strict that you cannot explore the game, but neither so lenient you can just ignore it. Even it is only used in the harder difficulties I would appreciate it. Also I wish all if not almost all quest to have negative consequences if you rest too much.

On the other hand, the fact that the camp is used to advance your relationship with your companions does throw a wrench to this idea, as it seems Larian wants the player to use camping to interact with companions and advance romances. Is not that different compared to others RPGs, even PF does it for some of the romances and companion quests, but BG3's camp seems to be more elaborated and they talk about it as some kind of big feature, so they may hesitate to penalize the player too much for using it.

So the answer is, that we don't reallly know. Is not enterely inconsequential as of now, but we don't know how punishing it will be in the final game, if it only affect sidequest or also the main quest. Also until harder difficulties are added, we don't know if they want to limit it only on Hard.

 

[Bara]

I strongly recommend this game

Thanks, I'll know to avoid it.

Please don't do yourself a disservice like that.

That hasn't stopped anyone who didn't want to be stopped ever.

Plot twist: jaheira is the wife.
Not joking.

If players can kill Jaheira and keep the dwarf in party while adventuring and then eventually romance in the eventually sequel the cycle will be complete.

 

[Reinhardt]

Jaheira is a slut. That's why i chose Aerie.

 

[Thonius]

Soooo no big titties goth gf for you? Gay!