Game News Baldur's Gate 3 now available on Early Access

[V_K]

And hopefully they'll tweak it before the full release.

As far as I can tell, that's the perspective they've been using since DOS:EE, so fat chance of it improving.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

And hopefully they'll tweak it before the full release.

As far as I can tell, that's the perspective they've been using since DOS:EE, so fat chance of it improving.

Eh, it wasn't a deal breaker for me in the first place, but it's a shame that they didn't even attempt to improve upon it.

 

[Zeriel]

Frankly I think it's less the perspective and more the fact it is unbound. In DOS it was more limited and the game was designed around that camera perspective and it worked better, when they stopped doing that it became a headache.

 

[V_K]

Frankly I think it's less the perspective and more the fact it is unbound. In DOS it was more limited and the game was designed around that camera perspective and it worked better, when they stopped doing that it became a headache.

Yes, it was easier to handle in DOS1, but still not great. There's also the issue of the viewport being too small and claustrophobic (though that's arguably the result of the design philosophy that demands using every square inch for something and the engine that can't handle truly big maps). And then the whole field of view just feels distorted somehow, like in a funhouse mirror - as if the map is built on a curved plane rather than flat one. I can't quite put my finger on why or how that happens, but it annoys and weirds me out.

 

[Zeriel]

Frankly I think it's less the perspective and more the fact it is unbound. In DOS it was more limited and the game was designed around that camera perspective and it worked better, when they stopped doing that it became a headache.

Yes, it was easier to handle in DOS1, but still not great. There's also the issue of the viewport being too small and claustrophobic (though that's arguably the result of the design philosophy that demands using every square inch for something and the engine that can't handle truly big maps). And then the whole field of view just feels distorted somehow, like in a funhouse mirror - as if the map is built on a curved plane rather than flat one. I can't quite put my finger on why or how that happens, but it annoys and weirds me out.

I think it's the camera angle. You can move it around, but the angle is still a bit odd. I can tell you that obviously that's not something intrinsic to the rendering, at least at the engine level, if you used the toolset for DOS1 it looks totally normal.

Afair originally they were going to make a zoomed in third person mode, maybe the camera angle is a holdover from that. It is somewhat different from at least DOS1.

 

[V_K]

Afair originally they were going to make a zoomed in third person mode

And they absolutely should have.

 

[Dr Schultz]

Like other futures in D:OS, the camera is a compromise (like the UI for instance) . This series tries to do/be many things at once: is both single player and multiplayer, sandbox in nature but with a full fladged turn based tactical combat; it is intended for a party but can be played solo...
Hence the camare must accommodate for various and very different needs: it has to show the right amont of map, work with the added verticality in D:OS 2, be close enough to the scene to facilitate the interaction with a shitolad of interactive objects but not too close because of the tactical combat.

The simple fact that it allows you to play the game without thinking too much about the camera controls is quite an achievement

 

[V_K]

The simple fact that it allows you to play the game without thinking too much about the camera controls

Only it absolutely doesn't.
The funniest thing is that all those issues have been solved perfectly well already in Drakensang: its camera controls allow you to seamlessly switch between OTS mouselook for exploration and free isometric camera for combat. Why has no other 3D party-based RPG done the same is beyond my understanding.

 

[Dr Schultz]

The simple fact that it allows you to play the game without thinking too much about the camera controls

Only it absolutely doesn't.
The funniest thing is that all those issues have been solved perfectly well already in Drakensang: its camera controls allow you to seamlessly switch between OTS mouselook for exploration and free isometric camera for combat. Why has no other 3D party-based RPG done the same is beyond my understanding.

Because the game world in D:OS is not detailed enough to be explored with a OTS camera without looking ugly. Not for today's graphic standards, at least. The camera must be "top down" and at a certain distance in order to make the assets look good. BG3 probably hasn't the same issue, though.

I agreed, anyway, that Drakensang solution was quite elegant. Hell, one of the few good things that one can says about Dragon Age: Origin is that the camera worked well (very similarly to Drakensang).

I disagree, though, that in D:OS the camera is an issue. I rarely had to fight with the controls or miss something because the camera in both games, and this is quite an achievement for a game that complex. When I think to an annoying camera in a RPG I usally think to NWN2 or more recently to AoD...

 

[V_K]

When I think to an annoying camera in a RPG I usally think to NWN2 or more recently to AoD

That's a very low bar.
Although it also shows that we're talking about slightly different things. Sure, moving the camera around in NWN2 was a pain in the ass much more so than in DOS. But the problem with DOS2 for me (less so with DOS1 which was designed with a fixed angle in mind) is that because of limited viewport and weird angle, more than half the time I had no idea where I was or where I needed to go. Given the tiny and canyon-y maps, that's quite an "achievement".

 

[Dr Schultz]

When I think to an annoying camera in a RPG I usally think to NWN2 or more recently to AoD

That's a very low bar.
Although it also shows that we're talking about slightly different things. Sure, moving the camera around in NWN2 was a pain in the ass much more so than in DOS. But the problem with DOS2 for me (less so with DOS1 which was designed with a fixed angle in mind) is that because of limited viewport and weird angle, more than half the time I had no idea where I was or where I needed to go. Given the tiny and canyon-y maps, that's quite an "achievement".

I usually avoid this issue (in D:OS and in other game with a rotating camera) by keeping the camera more or less aligned with the cardinal directions outside of combat.

 

[V_K]

When I think to an annoying camera in a RPG I usally think to NWN2 or more recently to AoD

That's a very low bar.
Although it also shows that we're talking about slightly different things. Sure, moving the camera around in NWN2 was a pain in the ass much more so than in DOS. But the problem with DOS2 for me (less so with DOS1 which was designed with a fixed angle in mind) is that because of limited viewport and weird angle, more than half the time I had no idea where I was or where I needed to go. Given the tiny and canyon-y maps, that's quite an "achievement".

I usually avoid this issue (in D:OS and in other game with a rotating camera) by keeping the camera more or less aligned with the cardinal directions outside of combat.

Sure, but that only works a) when you already know what lies ahead and b) when scenery isn't obscuring a large part of the viewport. And in DOS2 it does that most of the time.

 

[Dr Schultz]

When I think to an annoying camera in a RPG I usally think to NWN2 or more recently to AoD

That's a very low bar.
Although it also shows that we're talking about slightly different things. Sure, moving the camera around in NWN2 was a pain in the ass much more so than in DOS. But the problem with DOS2 for me (less so with DOS1 which was designed with a fixed angle in mind) is that because of limited viewport and weird angle, more than half the time I had no idea where I was or where I needed to go. Given the tiny and canyon-y maps, that's quite an "achievement".

I usually avoid this issue (in D:OS and in other game with a rotating camera) by keeping the camera more or less aligned with the cardinal directions outside of combat.

Sure, but that only works a) when you already know what lies ahead and b) when scenery isn't obscuring a large part of the viewport. And in DOS2 it does that most of the time.

Honesty, I have a hard time imagining someone who plays D:OS (I and II) and has serious difficulties in finding the way forward.
Sure, the maps are densely packed with "stuff" layered at different highs, especially in the second game. They are not easy to read and all the interactive objects can be a distraction, granted, but as long as you know the general direction of your target (and the direction you are following) is quite hard to miss something that isn't purposely hidden.
Heck, the games have very few markers (at least compared to modern standard) and even on consoles, where players are forced to handle the camera with a gamepad, the traversal wasn't perceived as an issue.

 

[V_K]

It's not hard per se, it's just annoying. Very, very annoying.

 

[Stokowski]

Shitty cams are the radial menus of our age: interface cancer.

 

[Fenix]

BG1's maps were "full of nothing"? If "nothing" means no encounter around every corner, no epic shit to find in every treehole, no quests every ten feet, and not every living being had the intention to kill me - then yes, it was "full of nothing". I still enjoyed it more than all the hundreds and thousands of RPGs which are crammed with all kind of stuff just to show me how they want to keep me entertained permanently and non-stop. The world felt more realistic the way BG1 presented it to me and allowed me for a better experience of immersion. It immediately gave me the powerful illusion that the world didn't revolve around me, a feeling I only know from very few games (Ultima VII and Doomdark's Revenge come to mind). And it allowed me to notice all the tiny details, the birds, the squirrels, the plethora of sounds and all the nature stuff. That's why I hate almost all modern RPGs: They don't give me time to breathe, to enjoy the scene and to simply be "there".

Very true bro.
This sertainly lacked in BG2, right? I can't withstand it past certain point, honestly.
It feels like it's you know - stuffy? stifling? like I can't fucking breath.

 

[Whisper]

Game is too easy

This was supposed to be hard fight
You can solo bosses, who cant even fight back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRr9ACI2uEk