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Game News Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition has a release date, available for pre-order

Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
673
Wasteland 2
But, does this mean they actually had the original art assets of BG2 this time? Or did they just blur filter it all?

I guess that “remastering original renders” mean blur filter, wording is confusing on purpose.
If they had original assets they wouldn't use original renders at all, since they could make new, higher resolution ones and use modern renderer.
 
Last edited:

Grim Monk

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
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1,217
I see the gaming industry wants to borrow the "best" practices from the movie industry.

Star Wars: A New Hope 1997 Enhanced Edition
Han_shot_first.gif


E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial 2002 Enhanced Edition
ET1982.jpg
 

imweasel

Guest
Come on guys. buy the game. Trent already said that if this sells well enough, then they will make BG3! Aren't you excited?

:troll:
 

A user named cat

Guest
Enhance = add pudding overlay to graphics, introduce bugs, take false credit, overprice
 
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The 3D stuff in the trailer suggests that they have the original source art, and therefore could actually improve the art of the game. Will wait and see.
 
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Here, even if the new characters were done really really well, they'd still break the game. A great deal of the strategic fun in BG2 was compiling your party. You'd have a number of elite NPCs - the paladin, the evil fighter, Viconia and Yoshimo (replaced by Imoen as a near-perfect dual-class thief-mage, just enough thief to handle every thief task in the game without missing any mage impact). Most of those either create extra enemies in some areas, or (much more importantly) have direct clashes with other party members, limiting the number of elite NPCs you can take (can't take paladin AND Viconia being the most obvious one; can't turn Yoshimo into a late-game monster by taking advantage of his strong fighting stats to dual-class him because Irenicus, Imoen is a lategame addition that arrives around the same time that a 'squishy' PC becomes king of the game by having the ability to transform into one of the most powerful melee creatures in the game at times when casting isn't working; the fighter I guess has a double advantage in stopping you from taking Aerie so that's a double win but an evil-aligned party has reputation mechanics stacked against it).

Then you have a number of 'moderate' NPCs, all of whom get on together despite alignment, but many of which clash with one or more of the elites. Hybrid classes in this category are either strong at one aspect of their class (Minsc can fight his ass off, but don't expect any ranger stealth; the ranger you find in the wilderness can stealth but he's an okay fighter at best, Jan and Aerie are multi-class with reasonable stats but BG2 takes place over the exact level range where multi-class dips slightly below a good single class spec and is pwned by a well-timed dual-class (if the party can carry the dual-classed characters through their 'weak' period) - ToB breaks the balance somewhat, as those multiclass characters become powerhouses again at elite levels (like they are in BG1). But ToB breaks the balance anyway by giving you an extra elite fighter - the best fighter in the game hands-down - with no clashes with any of the other characters.

But in BG2 as is, one of the big strategic improvements upon BG1 is the increased challenge of putting together a party that fits your character, precisely because you CAN'T get the perfect party. The strongest set of characters (on any formulation) won't stick together, and quite often even the best 'class set' for your particular character is impossible due to clashes, forcing you to rely on hybrids to plug the gaps.

Somehow I don't trust the new developers to sensibly balance the NPC clashes to maintain the same challenge.
 

aVENGER

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But in BG2 as is, one of the big strategic improvements upon BG1 is the increased challenge of putting together a party that fits your character, precisely because you CAN'T get the perfect party. The strongest set of characters (on any formulation) won't stick together, and quite often even the best 'class set' for your particular character is impossible due to clashes, forcing you to rely on hybrids to plug the gaps.

There are interpersonal conflicts between some of the new BG2EE party members and the original Bioware NPCs.

It's not possible to have certain characters in the party together.
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
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Project: Eternity
Who the fuck cares? The new NPCs will surely be more cringeworthy than the most obnoxious mod-introduced ones. Who in their right mind is going to play this pile of shite?
 

vorvek

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But in BG2 as is, one of the big strategic improvements upon BG1 is the increased challenge of putting together a party that fits your character, precisely because you CAN'T get the perfect party. The strongest set of characters (on any formulation) won't stick together, and quite often even the best 'class set' for your particular character is impossible due to clashes, forcing you to rely on hybrids to plug the gaps.

Somehow I don't trust the new developers to sensibly balance the NPC clashes to maintain the same challenge.

It was only a challenge for the challenged. Practically any assortment of characters can pretty much shit on 95% of the content in Baldur's Gate, since it all comes to the cheese. It doesn't matter which thief you carry with you. It doesn't matter which fighters you carry with you. As long as you have a mage (no matter who) and somebody able to carry a couple of the broken items that make the areas that had any sort of intrinsic difficulty just a chore (mace of disruption, Shield of Balduran...). You can steal a fucking ring that makes healing spells useless as soon as you leave the first dungeon. You get so much gold and crap during the game, that you could quaff a couple of "immune to the next encounter" potions each time you have to fight and still have more money left than you can ever use during the game.

The BG series might be many things. Challenging isn't one of them.
 
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Here, even if the new characters were done really really well, they'd still break the game. A great deal of the strategic fun in BG2 was compiling your party. You'd have a number of elite NPCs - the paladin, the evil fighter, Viconia and Yoshimo. Most of those either create extra enemies in some areas, or (much more importantly) have direct clashes with other party members, limiting the number of elite NPCs you can take

While I enjoy BG2 a great deal, I think you're overselling the impact here.

Generally, the only conflicts stem from Evil characters, and the only "high-tier" Evil character is Edwin, who clashes with Aerie and Keldorn.

Korgan is, arguably, the worst NPC in the game. Sure, he has decent stats, but he doesn't really have anything else. Five pips in axes is rather worthless seeing as the best axe(s) in the game (not including ToB) happens to be +3 with a couple points of elemental damage tacked on. His evil alignment also prevents him from using the outstanding undead-slaying, throwing axe...which is a real disappointment (and slightly ironic considering his personal quest revolves around raiding some catacombs full of undead). Other straight warriors offer a lot more. Minsc and Valygar both come with much more relevant proficiencies in addition to their Ranger spellcasting abilities...to say nothing of the fact that Minsc can replicate Korgan's bersking and Valygar can backstab as well as cast pertinent mage spells. Korgan stacks up terribly against Keldorn, who not only has outstanding anti-mage abilities, but can also wield some fearsome weaponry, be it his default blade or the Carsomyr. Basically, Korgan is on the same level as Mazzy...except Mazzy has decent proficiencies slotted in as well as personal equipment and good special abilities (Haste).

Viconia looks good on paper; that 18 Wisdom would be a necessity for any high level Cleric endeavors in a by-the-book 2nd Edition game. But BG2 frequently skirts the rules and even Anomen, with his foolhardy 12 Wisdom, can call upon the might of 7t level Cleric spells. So because of this, Viconia doesn't bring much to the table. Certain stats relevant to combat, like Strength and Consitution, are subpar in as much to bar her from playing double duty; she's mostly relegated to behind-the-lines spellcasting duty. Other Divine casters don't share this frailty. Jaheira and Anomen are both Fighters, Cernd can shapeshift into a (greater) werewolf, and even Aerie can be geared to combat effectiveness with the right Mage spells. Viconia can't really do this, and all she receives in return are a few extra casts in the lower levels of Clericc spells...not much to write home about.

The only real character of note out of the three Evil NPCs in Shadows of Amn is Edwin, and mostly because he has hax that grant him additional casting slots per spell level beyond what a typical specialist mage can achieve. Basically he forces a choice between his services and those of Aerie and/or Keldorn; given that those three are, in my opinion, the best NPCs in the game, it actually becomes an interesting choice.

Bioware's experiment in making the Evil-cru a bunch of high prime-requisite(s), "pure" classes didn't work out too well, and since the only conflicts were between Evil characters and certain Good ones, a lot of the strategic complexity was diminished. It would have been nice if Korgan and Viconia had been granted buffs equivalent to Edwin's bonus spell slots or if inter-party conflict/friendship had gone beyond simple alignment polarity disagreements. Imagine Valygar getting upset with Nalia because she is a noble mage...someone who Valygar doesn't quite trust nor like. Or Viconia "corrupting" Aerie, and turning her against other party member in favor of some female (elf) supremacy-cru.

Essentially, party conflict was an interesting feature in BG2...but I feel it could have been so much more than it was.

But in BG2 as is, one of the big strategic improvements upon BG1

A similar mechanic was actually present in BG1. A lot of party members would become uncontrollable and fight with one another if they were kept in the company of one another for too long. The most notable example is Xzar/Montaron and Khalid/Jaheira or Edwin and Minsc/Dynaheir, but I'm pretty sure I recall Kivan not getting along with Viconia and Shar-Teel and Yeslick coming to blows with Kagain. There may have been others too.

It was only a challenge for the challenged. Practically any assortment of characters can pretty much shit on 95% of the content in Baldur's Gate, since it all comes to the cheese. It doesn't matter which thief you carry with you. It doesn't matter which fighters you carry with you. As long as you have a mage (no matter who) and somebody able to carry a couple of the broken items that make the areas that had any sort of intrinsic difficulty just a chore (mace of disruption, Shield of Balduran...). You can steal a fucking ring that makes healing spells useless as soon as you leave the first dungeon. You get so much gold and crap during the game, that you could quaff a couple of "immune to the next encounter" potions each time you have to fight and still have more money left than you can ever use during the game.

The BG series might be many things. Challenging isn't one of them.

Basically what you're saying is that the difficulty of an RPG with no reflexive and few random components becomes trivialized when the player has a strong knowledge of the systems and content within the game?

Shocking.
 

MurkyShadow

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm almost tempted to recommend this to our old AD&D gm that has fallen in disgrace.
But I think I just can't dislike someone that much. That almost feels like convincing
someone that his life will be forever missing something if he doesn't play ME3.
Well, his life 'will' be missing something...
 

vorvek

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Basically what you're saying is that the difficulty of an RPG with no reflexive and few random components becomes trivialized when the player has a strong knowledge of the systems and content within the game?

Shocking.

I guess you need to be a savant to understand that you can drink a potion and it does what the description says. Or to read the combat log and see that you lost the combat because your barbarian was charmed and you could have prevented that using that ultra-obscure class ability the character has and only a super-genius could think of clicking on before the combat begins.

Even the first time you play through those games you have tons of crap at your disposal, since the game basically throws items at you. Find a combat you cannot just breeze through and you can always walk around it or simply rest and prepare a more appropriate approach. Even if you grabbed the less optimal NPCs to go with your party. Seriously, it's just a matter of reading the text in the spells and items. If that's considered the epitome of challenge nowadays...
 
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But in BG2 as is, one of the big strategic improvements upon BG1 is the increased challenge of putting together a party that fits your character, precisely because you CAN'T get the perfect party. The strongest set of characters (on any formulation) won't stick together, and quite often even the best 'class set' for your particular character is impossible due to clashes, forcing you to rely on hybrids to plug the gaps.

Somehow I don't trust the new developers to sensibly balance the NPC clashes to maintain the same challenge.

It was only a challenge for the challenged. Practically any assortment of characters can pretty much shit on 95% of the content in Baldur's Gate, since it all comes to the cheese. It doesn't matter which thief you carry with you. It doesn't matter which fighters you carry with you. As long as you have a mage (no matter who) and somebody able to carry a couple of the broken items that make the areas that had any sort of intrinsic difficulty just a chore (mace of disruption, Shield of Balduran...). You can steal a fucking ring that makes healing spells useless as soon as you leave the first dungeon. You get so much gold and crap during the game, that you could quaff a couple of "immune to the next encounter" potions each time you have to fight and still have more money left than you can ever use during the game.

The BG series might be many things. Challenging isn't one of them.

Wait up a sec: nobody, NOBODY is claiming that BG2 provides any kind of true strategic challenge, with the POSSIBLE exceptions of Firrkang (if you fight him early), Kangaxx, the hidden door to the uncompleted quest room, and Gaider's modern version of Demogorgon and MAYBE the silver dragon (but by then you're pretty much in roflstomp mode anyway. NONE of those are needed to finish the game.

I'm not claiming that the game is a challenge in that sense.

I'm simply referring to an aspect of the game that many people find entertaining. I'm far from the only one who likes to powergame this type of game (i.e. where there's a big adventuring focus and either a retarded plot or a minimal plot), and the more barriers in the way of that 'ultimate powergaming' the better.

Jesus Fucking Christ, do I really need to state the fucking obvious after every post?
 
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Viconia looks good on paper; that 18 Wisdom would be a necessity for any high level Cleric endeavors in a by-the-book 2nd Edition game. But BG2 frequently skirts the rules and even Anomen, with his foolhardy 12 Wisdom, can call upon the might of 7th level Cleric spells.

Viconia brings two very very big things to the table:
- 30% magic resistance in a game where the toughest enemies are magic-users.
- ability to not just turn, but CONTROL undead in a game where the most commonly recurring villains are vampires (and it works very VERY effectively - turn undead pales into insignificance compared to Viconia taking control of half the enemies; although on the 2nd stage of Bodhi's dungeon the higher level vampires seems to have a greater resistance - you still control them, but usually only 1 or 2 at a time). Plus ony she can cast restoration. I actually find her more useful than Keldorn WITH the paladin +5 sword (until ToB that is, but as I said NPC balance wasn't really designed for that) simply because once you progress from chapter 2 (and it's easy to do so too early - the prompts to do so start appearing a LONG time before you're ready to start fighting level-draining vampires) her control undead ability (combined protection from level drain one a solitary melee character) is the only way you're going to be able to stand your ground and get the sweet exp from those fights rather than either fleeing or coming out of it with a huge temple restoration bill.

In summary, the non-expansion toughest enemies are all either vampires or mages, and Viconia is perfectly designed to combat both.

And as a cleric, the ability to have more spells per level (allowing you to have plenty of heals AND a good mix of buffs and offensive spells) is, for most of the game, more important than max spell level.

I did forget to mention Edwin? Until you can turn into the slayer, he's hands down a better mage than you can ever be, with no conflicts. He does, however, have a long quest chain to obtain him. I still think he should have clashed with at least 1 or 2 of the hybrids - clashing with Jaheria would have made sense; left-over hatreds from BG1 and it would force you to think about whether you want a powerful backline casting contingent, or a hybrid that can fill the healing role adequately (but without distinction) while having the right buffs and stats to be able to double as a very competent frontline fighter. Adding that to the quest requirement would make Irenicus a similar difficult choice to Keldorn or Viconia.
 
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This thread has everything I love about the Codex: "BG2 was shit! ...and now let me share my deep, thorough knowledge of the game with you all." Yes, I know it's two different camps saying these things, but I like to think of the Codex as a single entity.
 

aris

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  1. I'm getting it, since I lost my original physical copy of BG2 a long time ago.
 

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