Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[PorkyThePaladin]

I think the real issue with Expert difficulty is the lack of single skull combat missions. They are so few and far in between that it makes it difficult to train up your bros. The two skull missions vary between doable but very difficult and insane level batshit. I've gotten to the point where I can usually differentiate between the two, but still, even the former makes it so hard to train up, because for every bro you train up, you are likely to lose another one.

 

[Serus]

Porky - for me you could be the one who walked on the Moon with Armstrong but it didn't show because of RNG. I am saying what you are doing here, in this thread, with Battle Brothers. Which everyone can see by himself. Your whole life success and how you did it is of no interest to me.
Not to mention Kingmaker on "Challenging" is as challenging as... I don't know, BB between somewhere Beginner and Veteran maybe. And no one sane plays it ironman.


Oh? Some sensible criticism in that second post. And i somewhat agree. I train them on the 1 skull mission and on the groups roaming in the open - i can see exactly their strength then. Hint, but you probably know it, don't train your guys with low health (level 1 before colossus for example) against brigands. No matter the armour if they decide to shot him with crossbows he can die. But then you talk to a man who has 17 graves with company names on expert - most of it with under levelled bros' names, so maybe i'm not the best to give hints.
However i am not really seeing any serious "issue" here, as you do. I repeat, "Expert" IS a bullshit difficulty like... say Unfair in Kingmaker - except better because without stat bloat.

 

[Serus]

Damn, 18th name to the list! Another decent but not great newbie. Never, i mean never trust the auto-retreat feature. Here you have a real "bullshit Porky. The game has decent ai (for a game) but they didn't bother to program the retreat. Damn. And it looked so straightforward, desert without a single blocked hex and still one of my men have managed to lose the way home.

 

[Kaivokz]

I was doing really well, had 14 bros, most to level 4-5, good equipment, etc.

On expert day 107 you should have a some level 11+‘s and all your main bros over level 7. I posted a few pages back some tips for the strategic layer, which it sounds like you need—don’t rely on contracts, go hunting camps asap, chase down bandits around towns with ambushed trade routes, etc. I would say by day 100, 95% of the battles I fight are not contracts.

edit- I’m not saying you’re playing wrong btw, I think part of the fun is struggling before you realize how to optimize everything—I’m just saying if you’ve got max level 4-5 bros on day 107, you’re playing very sub-optimally and that’s why you’re getting fucked by RNG.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

How would that help? Most wilderness camps seem even harder that the contract ones, and wandering around wilderness saps food and money which you will get back less of without a contract.

 

[Takamori]

Damn, 18th name to the list! Another decent but not great newbie. Never, i mean never trust the auto-retreat feature. Here you have a real "bullshit Porky. The game has decent ai (for a game) but they didn't bother to program the retreat. Damn. And it looked so straightforward, desert without a single blocked hex and still one of my men have managed to lose the way home.

Wish I had saved my first peasant militia playthrough that managed to "survive" first playthrough, I'd be sent to international court of justice haia several pages of dead people.

How would that help? Most wilderness camps seem even harder that the contract ones, and wandering around wilderness saps food and money which you will get back less of without a contract.

Don't tussle with Necromancer with geists or ancient priests, rest is doable. You might lose soldiers but you can have a chance on named items for clearing those camps btw

 

[Kaivokz]

How would that help? Most wilderness camps seem even harder that the contract ones, and wandering around wilderness saps food and money which you will get back less of without a contract.

They’re not generally that hard—scout out the battle and run if it’s too much. There are lots of brigands in old ruins and bands of unarmored weidergangers. Tier 1 skeletons are easy too, bring blunt weapons. You’ll make way more money clearing camps and selling all the loot than you will doing early contracts. Don’t wander around the wilderness aimlessly, plot a course with towns on either end and use mountains to scout terrain. Unlock scout and tracker as soon as you can, imo.

edit-but I still prefer to do any brigand contracts I get early on, and lindwurms mid game—get a feel for which contracts you think are worth it. Focusing on contracts only is going to leave you under leveled and under geared.

 

[Harthwain]

I think the real issue with Expert difficulty is the lack of single skull combat missions. They are so few and far in between that it makes it difficult to train up your bros. The two skull missions vary between doable but very difficult and insane level batshit.

On Expert difficulty there are more enemies, they are better equipped and the weaker enemies phase out faster, so this could be the reason why single skull missions are fewer (especially if you focus on doing them specifically). Still, I wouldn't trust a rating all that much - some single skull missions are going to be harder than two skull missions. And taking a mission from a noble house is going to be harder by default, compared to a quest offered by a village/town, even if the quest for a noble house has 1 skull and a city offers 2 skulls.

Edit: Someone said that the best way to tell the difficulty apart is by checking how much gold you are offered. If the amount is on the lower end, then the quest ought to be easier. If the amount is on the higher end, then expect the quest to be more difficult than usual. Not sure how true this is though. I will have to pay more attention to that next time.

 

[Serus]

I lost one of my best brothers to lindwurms. But i don't completely understand why. When he was fighting lindwurms the last time he was allright. Lindwurms should have 5% chance to hit him when shieldwall was raised (66, and ~90). But the head had 17%! And tail 12% iirc. And the that was before he lost morale due to being hit. Never had that. Do lindwurms have some hidden perks? The only thing i can think of is that he was surrounded by unusual number of linduwurm... parts. Do lindwurms have backstabber?

 

[Brancaleone]

I lost one of my best brothers to lindwurms. But i don't completely understand why. When he was fighting lindwurms the last time he was allright. Lindwurms should have 5% chance to hit him when shieldwall was raised (66, and ~90). But the head had 17%! And tail 12% iirc. And the that was before he lost morale due to being hit. Never had that. Do lindwurms have some hidden perks? The only thing i can think of is that he was surrounded by unusual number of linduwurm... parts. Do lindwurms have backstabber?

Lindwurms afaik don't have backstabber. Maybe it was just the standard surround bonus?

 

[Harthwain]

When he was fighting lindwurms the last time he was allright. Lindwurms should have 5% chance to hit him when shieldwall was raised (66, and ~90). But the head had 17%! And tail 12% iirc. And the that was before he lost morale due to being hit. Never had that. Do lindwurms have some hidden perks? The only thing i can think of is that he was surrounded by unusual number of linduwurm... parts. Do lindwurms have backstabber?

They seem to get a bonus to melee attack after 170-180 days:

Lindwurm: Has +10 and does 10% more after day 170
Tail: Has +10 and does 10% more after day 180

 

[Serus]

Thanks, that might be it, i'm now at 180 and he died sometimes in the 170s and the first battle was way earlier. That would explain it. Oh well, apparently Lindwurms adapt to human tactics. I didn't know any "monster" stats scale. I thought only numbers and compositions of groups. I don't like it - from design perspective, i already mourned my tank. But that means you need more def on a tank to stand up to those beast. You need the "5%" because they hit like trucks. A tank can take a hit or three but no more. Damn, mine wasn't bad, he had 40def at level 11 and over 120 health with nimble. Granted he used a standard 20 def shield but that's the best there other than famed ones.

Any other good methods to fight Lindwurms? Other than finding a recruit with over 10def and 3stars and a good famed shield.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Any other good methods to fight Lindwurms?

Hide behind allied noble house/city state troops and try to kill steal.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Meh, I am fucking done with this shit. Playing on the hardest difficulty settings is just retarded in this game. Expert/Expert/Ironman/Hidden Map/Low Starting Resources.

Some games are designed to be played at highest difficulty settings, this one was not, imo. I mean sure, you have people playing it for thousands of hours, so you can get a lucky run at some point and get through to the later stages, but for most runs, if you just play normally, without save-scumming, without number crunching and autism, it is fucking impossible. Some fucking RNG always gets you, whether its a shitty map, shitty contracts, shitty battle rolls, shitty spawn rolls.

This shit is just hilarious, every run I try some crazy shit happens. And it happens in ways that almost seem sadistic by the devs. For example, why is it whenever I am desperate and take a long caravan contract, nothing ever happens in the first few days of the route, but always some insanely powerful enemy spawns and attacks on the last leg, when I already spent several days worth of pay on my men.

Or like the fucking waves of enemies. Fuck that's so annoying. The dev retards know that on these difficulties and with their RNG, it is impossible to get out of a battle unscathed. So why am I always dealing with a 2nd group attacking me after I defeat the first? And some of them you can't even escape due to dumbass travel AI or the way some of them have ridiculous action points (e.g. wolf riders, dire wolves, etc).

Also the fucking contract algorithm is pure sadism. They see I have a 6 man unit of level 1/2s. Why the fuck are there 3 skull contracts all over the place? Fuck it, I beat it on Veteran/Ironman, now

 

[Jrpgfan]

If you're complaining about goblin wolfriders, wait until you face shamans with root and insect swarm. That's hands down the most annoying enemy in the game.

Contrary to most BB players, I've never had much trouble with goblins, except when there's a shaman in their team. One single shaman completely changes the game and my strats against those little green fuckers.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I don't have a problem with goblins. I have a problem with the goblins when they are riding wolves (with 3 armor bypassing attacks per round across the screen mobility), and attack me as 15 while I have 12, and attack me right after I won a battle against the previous 9 of them and have injuries and shit, and attack me as part of caravan, so I can't avoid or see what the fuck is attacking me, and then lock me down so I can't escape.

 

[Jrpgfan]

You shouldn't take caravan contracts if your guys can't handle a few wolfriders. It's risky exactly because you can't avoid fights. Although, there's always the option to flee before the fight and fail the contract. You'll lose the money and reputation but your bros will live to see another day. Knowing what contracts to take and when to take them is part of the game too.

By the way, I hope you realize you're complaining about low level parties. Skilled players beat those consistently. It seems to me it's more a problem of lack of game knowledge than RNG or whatever, which is fine. It's a game with a steep learning curve after all, no shame in admiting you're just not good enough yet.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

You can't even read what I am writing bre, 15 goblin wolf riders after 9 goblin wolf riders is not "a few". And they are not a low level party, I got wiped by them after day 100... Please pay attention.

 

[Harthwain]

Meh, I am fucking done with this shit. Playing on the hardest difficulty settings is just retarded in this game. Expert/Expert/Ironman/Hidden Map/Low Starting Resources.

I don't see much point in playing on expert economical difficulty and with low starting resources. Its only function is to increase the grind, making it much harder to keep your head above the water. It's extra challenge, sure, but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone, unless they want to be really hardcore. Expert combat/enemies makes enemies more challenging, which is a solid reason to take that difficulty increase. Hidden map is nice for exploring the map, although this makes it harder to decide when to pick the Pathfinder perk (it's much better on maps with a lot of rough terrain).

 

[LizardWizard]

You can't even read what I am writing bre, 15 goblin wolf riders after 9 goblin wolf riders is not "a few". And they are not a low level party, I got wiped by them after day 100... Please pay attention.

Gobbos have shit morale, you should be routing them with your 2h/duelist front liners in the first couple of engagements. Especially at turn 100

 

[Darth Canoli]

On expert day 107 you should have a some level 11+‘s and all your main bros over level 7. I posted a few pages back some tips for the strategic layer, which it sounds like you need—don’t rely on contracts, go hunting camps asap, chase down bandits around towns with ambushed trade routes, etc. I would say by day 100, 95% of the battles I fight are not contracts.

edit- I’m not saying you’re playing wrong btw, I think part of the fun is struggling before you realize how to optimize everything—I’m just saying if you’ve got max level 4-5 bros on day 107, you’re playing very sub-optimally and that’s why you’re getting fucked by RNG.

How would that help? Most wilderness camps seem even harder that the contract ones, and wandering around wilderness saps food and money which you will get back less of without a contract.

You can't even read what I am writing bre, 15 goblin wolf riders after 9 goblin wolf riders is not "a few". And they are not a low level party, I got wiped by them after day 100... Please pay attention.

Battle Brothers is the kind of game you should start on normal, die and then roll-back to easy combat settings until you know what you're doing, then you play on normal again and when you had a couple of succesful runs completing at least the first crisis and having fought almost everything, you can think of switching to expert.

And when expert difficulty isn't a problem anymore, you can try legendary (legends mod feature) but you shouldn't.

Knowledge gives you insight on:
- Who to fight and when to fight them
- Strategies to fight different enemies
- Team building
- Making money

It makes all the difference, although, for the money, it's best to stay on easy economic settings/high funds unless you go for a trade heavy run.

Last but not least, on expert, i get level 11 bros on day 50+
Difficulty scales with your party size and days passing so don't recruit too much too fast.
After day 80, you should only recruit very slowly and/or expensive (good backgrounds) and higher level bros.

Forgot about equipment, upgrading it every chance you get should be a priority, meaning buying cheap armors and trying to get higher quality weapons as soon as possible, war crisis helps a lot for this as it'll make you rich and get you the best loot, or a raider start, preying on one faction.

...

Besides Turn it in and legends, Power of magic is the best mod for BB (vanilla version is going to be updated, legends works).

 

[Jrpgfan]

You can't even read what I am writing bre, 15 goblin wolf riders after 9 goblin wolf riders is not "a few". And they are not a low level party, I got wiped by them after day 100... Please pay attention.

I've already faced a party with 44 goblins, with atleast half that of wolfriders(there were no shamans and overseers). I wiped it easily. After the second or third kill with my 2 handers, they all went on fleeing. Like the user above said, they have low morale, and they're squishy. It's almost always a 1hit-1 kill with a 2 hander if you manage to hit them, and once you do it's very likely atleast a few are gonna flee. Again, with good enough bros and knowledge on what to do and when to tackle what, parties with low to mid level mobs like that are not that challenging. For skilled players it only gets really challenging when you face high level mobs like shamans, overseers, orc warlords, barbarian chosens etc... Complaining about RNG when facing weak stuff like 15 wolfriders with a 12 man party on day 100 doesn't make a strong case.

 

[Serus]

I mean sure, you have people playing it for thousands of hours, so you can get a lucky run at some point and get through to the later stages, but for most runs, if you just play normally, without save-scumming, without number crunching and autism, it is fucking impossible. Some fucking RNG always gets you, whether its a shitty map, shitty contracts, shitty battle rolls, shitty spawn rolls.

No Porky, just no. N - O. As in "no", you are incorrect. You are like those people i met on roguelike forums who says similar thing. When told and shown* that there are players who can win several consecutive runs, they just don't accept reality. It definitely is possible. The one moment where rng in BB is so strong that it can sometimes overwhelm a good and attentive player (mind you - not necessarily myself) is at the very beginning. BTW, the underlining is important. Certainly no need to wait for a "lucky run at some point". Hell, you can see me how i went to expert (from veteran first!) during the last few pages of this thread. Did it require thousands of hours? And i am not the most lucky or the most autistic and certainly not the most skilled player of BB.
However what you DO NEED is to know the game. Expert/Expert/IM is for people who mastered the game, not ones who learn it as they go. Not to mention expert economy is masochistic. You also need to be able to learn from your own mistakes and/or others instead of blaming everything but yourself. You simply DO NOT meet those two crucial requirements. End result is frustration and uninformed opinions.

*In DCSS there is(was?) an option to play online, it even recorded the results for everyone to see. Still people telling that it is all RNG and luck based popped up sometime. Sounds familiar to you? There are other rl games i know, the same happens there.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

"after playing dis game for thousands of hours and doing all the under the hood calculations on graphing paper, i can pretend i git gud and show off to morons who just play it like a ... game... trololol"



P.S. Seems like most of you play on less than Expert economic difficulty, and some on premade "perfect" maps. So why are you arguing with me when i am playing on actual "hardest" settings (expert/expert/ironman/low starting/random map/hiddden map)?

 

[Strange Fellow]

Because playing on difficulty levels that are suited to our ability and familiarity with the game is fun, and your way clearly isn't.