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Best Souls game ?

Best souls game ?


  • Total voters
    184
  • Poll closed .

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,328
Location
Flowery Land
BB was pretty meh. Dark Souls' biggest improvement was removing consumable health items so each area can be balanced around each player having so many. Making BB dependent on consumables was outright retarded and does nothing but force grinding. In DS losing twice just became an encouragement to keep going forward because you now had nothing to lose, in BB it means you go back to grind more blood vials and bullets because you are just completely fucked without them. It's also more based on precise inputs with an absolutely horrible frame rate that prohibits it.
 

Deflowerer

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2013
Messages
2,052
Not sure if that was intended, but what the blood vial system basically encouraged me to do is to be more observant and analytical of the boss in the initial encounters while being extra conservative with vials. Once I got the gist of the battle, only then I committed to chugging multiple vials during a fight.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,274
Location
Terra da Garoa
First, if you're a fan of what Dark Souls does with it's levels, there's no way Bloodborne first 5 hours is shit. Yharnam Central + Cathedral Ward + Old Yharnam are among the better designed level sequence the series has seen, and put everything in DS2 and DS3 to shame.
Bullshit. What does Yharnam Central offers? The only noteworthy part of the level is the part with all the dudes around the fire. And it fails miserably at suspense & payoff. You kill all the dudes and hear something huge banging on the door... oh, what's that?! Just walk five feet and you'll get to the other side and see it's just a big dude hitting the door. Kill him and nothing changes. The Cleric Beast? Just a big monster that pops out of nowhere with no build-up and killing him leads fucking nowhere. Hurray.

High Wall of Lothirc + The Undead Settlement in DS3 and No-Man's Wharf + Lost Bastille in DS2 are WAAAAAAY more interesting and diverse level sequences. And those are the "bad" ones in the series.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,809
High Wall of Lothirc + The Undead Settlement in DS3 and No-Man's Wharf + Lost Bastille in DS2 are WAAAAAAY more interesting and diverse level sequences. And those are the "bad" ones in the series.
i thought Wharf and Bastille are considered to be good levels.
Personally, I think Wharf is one of the best locations in DaS2 (obviously not counting DLC, cuz that shit is on another level). Just one bonfire, interesting secrets and shortcuts, and because of faster durability loss you'll have to use second weapon or repair powder.
 

ScrotumBroth

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
1,288
Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
Witcher 2 is clearly the best one, even if only a clone.

KWisDmm.gif


Eh, I've enjoyed Demon's Souls, it was new and not too long.
 

Arnust

Savant
Joined
Dec 22, 2016
Messages
680
Location
Spain
Why are you skipping over the Forest of Fallen Giants? I wonder, because it's also pretty great and it's not really tutorial. That and you've got to come back later. But yeah, even if they were mediocre (let's be honest, you do commute from a weirdly geometric fortress to another) the early game openess is dare I say even over fabled DS1's. It's a huge part of replays to beeline for your wished gear, adding to the self imposed challenge and experimentation that comes with Souls replays. Sure, you can go straight to Queelag as soon as getting to Firelink with a Master Key, but... why? It's not a really viable path and items are spread quite evenly, let alone finding something that may interest you immediately. Plus you're still gonna need to backtrack and tread the same steps, making skips and the like kind of redundant and a waste of time, unless what you're in for is to have areas that will stay open to online activity, which the godawful matchmaking will squander anyway.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,778
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
BB is rather mediocre by comparison. Stop your lies.
Cut this fanboy hysteria, kiddo. There's no mediocre gameplay in the whole series. Not even DS3 is mediocre, and BB clearly better than it.

BB was pretty meh [because blood vials]
If we are dismissing entire games because of individual flaws, the whole series is condemned: DS1 has the worst last-half decline, DS2 has the worst level design and art direction, D3 has the worst... heh everything. By this argument every entry in the series would be "meh".

Bullshit. What does Yharnam Central offers? The only noteworthy part of the level is the part with all the dudes around the fire.
This is a joke, right? Level Design-wise, Yharnam+Cathedral has great internal interconnectivity with alternate and secret routes, besides being a hub connecting at least other 5 areas. Art Design-wise, it sets the tone for the whole game with amazing mood, atmosphere and an attention to detail that's arguably unparalleled in the whole series, making most DS2 levels resemble RPGmaker projects.

High Wall of Lothric + the...

orig


És um fanfarrão, Felipe.
 
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Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,235
Cut this fanboy hysteria, kiddo. There's no mediocre gameplay in the whole series. Not even DS3 is mediocre, and BB clearly better than it

I specifically said mediocre by comparison to DS1 and 2. Of course by comparison to Assassin's Creed or whatever the hell piece of shit modern game picked at random it's a masterpiece.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,778
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Not sure if that was intended, but what the blood vial system basically encouraged me to do is to be more observant and analytical of the boss in the initial encounters while being extra conservative with vials. Once I got the gist of the battle, only then I committed to chugging multiple vials during a fight.
The problem of blood vials is that it adds a resource managing factor that don't bring anything to the table except frustration. It's like weapon durability but (much much) worse. Also, it simply don't fit BB design space imo, as the whole game is streamlined so you focus on the rush of combat. Silver bullets is more acceptable because if you run out of it, the game allows for alternate approaches to compensate, except for very specific builds (like ranged arcanists for eg).
 
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Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,999
Location
Platypus Planet
Blood Vials were a mistake but I wouldn't say that it's worse than weapon durability since by the mid point the game starts throwing blood vials at you like candy and very soon you'll never even have to think about them. It's a nuisance in the beginning and then becomes utterly trivial later. Poor design for sure.

The only thing that is truly awful in Bloodborne is how most of the gems were walled behind the Chalice dungeons.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,778
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Yeah Hobo, but by that midpoint when vials become abundant a lot of newcomers may have already dropped the game in frustration.

But the point really is: what interesting choices Blood Vials bring to the table? None imo. Sid Meier is an old fag nowadays but his axiom from the age of incline still counts: "a good game is a bunch of interesting choices" and that's the point. Idem for weapon durability, which is also simulation for simulation sake and don't bring anything to the table.

(The irony is that DS2 had an actually interesting system at first, because with the fast degradation it forced you to have a bunch of weapons ready, mind your usage of them, and stay on the lookout for extras. But then SotFS happened, they admitted it was a bug and the mechanic went back to just a nuisance. :lol: )
 

Villagkouras

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Greece
DS1 is the best. I cannot separate the others. Maybe DS3 is the "worst" due to extreme fan service.

I could talk all day praising DS1 and the other games. OTOH we never received content as insulting as Lost Izalith/Demon Ruins and their bosses.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,235

Not to disagree with your point about blood vials, but weapon degradation does have purposes. Most importantly it acts as "ammo" for melee weapons, and encourages switching to new weapons when out of "ammo", thereby enforcing diversity. Doom would be shit if all weapons had infinite ammo, rather than constantly switching out the best weapon for the job, managing ammo pickups etc. In Dark Souls the implementation of weapon degradation isn't great but it still has its place, and could be optimised. It would arguably be a better game if you were forced to make use of and upgrade multiple weapons simultaneously, rather than sticking with a select few or even one per playthrough.

DaS3 has the honor of having the worst gameplay.

I won't dispute that claim. BB or DS3, it's one of the two (I'd definitely argue BB if I were in the mood though).
 
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Deflowerer

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2013
Messages
2,052
Dark Souls 2 has my favorite EMUHSONAL moment in the series though: stepping into Vendrick's chamber. While Demon's Souls is overall a stronger package, on the basis of pure atmosphere alone I like DS2 the most. Vendrick's chamber, Drangleic Castle, Majula. Beautiful.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,778
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Not to disagree with your point about blood vials, but weapon degradation does have purposes. Most importantly it acts as "ammo" for melee weapons, and encourages switching to new weapons when out of "ammo", thereby enforcing diversity. Doom would be shit if all weapons had infinite ammo, rather than constantly switching out the best weapon for the job, managing ammo pickups etc. In Dark Souls the implementation of weapon degradation isn't great but it still has its place, and could be optimised. It would arguably be a better game if you were forced to make use of and upgrade multiple weapons simultaneously, rather than sticking with a select few or even one per playthrough.
This "weapon ammo" analogy would make sense if durability was significantly smaller all across the board (or degraded faster like vanilla DS2). Right now, though, it's like a Doom game where each gun has tens of thousands of bullets. So, pointless.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,235
It was OK in DS1. Forced me to switch it up a couple times. But yeah, like I said, sub-optimal.
 

Jezal_k23

Guest
DS1 for me, no debate, although I'm not a huge hater of DS2 & 3. I'm surprised DS2 is liked better than 3 here, but I find myself agreeing with the assessment. DS2 at least tried different things instead of giving in to fanservice like DS3 did.

Not only that, DS3 was the most linear entry by far. I think its levels are fine in general, what with their internal shortcuts and stuff like that, but the way they're connected and the world was designed is pretty boring. Also, DS2 had the best DLCs by far in the Souls franchise.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,982
I must have been the only person on the forum that didn't find DS3 linear at all. Played through to like the last 3 bosses or so before I only had a single boss to choose from. DS2 on the other hand was aggravating as hell- I didn't see the stupid chain hanging in the corner of the room on the way to Dragon Slayer, and the well was bullshit I never found the ladder for, so... yeah. Linear shitfest full of enemies with infinite poise, and stupid secrets you'd only ever find by being spoiled. Armor was totally irrelevant, and there were basically only ever two types of enemies for the whole game: enemies with shields you could stagger and enemies without shields you had to play the dodge game around.
 

ColonelTeacup

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
1,433
DS3 is by far the worst of the lot. the only thing it has superior to the others is the graphics (not even the art direction) and some bosses. combat is worse, multiplayer is worse, covenants are garbage, story/lore is the worst it has ever been, world design is the worst, even the music isn't good. but that's just compare to the other soulsborne games, because as a standalone game it's still excellent. it's just the worst of the ones in the list by a wide margin.

and just like DS3 is the clear loser, DS1 is the clear winner here. it's probably the only game of the list that manages to be greater than the sum of its parts. it truly is a special game that manages to transcend most of its flaws

i love Nioh. as many have said, by far the best combat mechanics of the options in the poll (if not the best action "rpg-ish" combat fullstop). but the repetitiveness kills it a bit, and the story/lore and shit is kinda eh (though the setting is great), so i can't vote for it :(

Severance will always have a special place in my heart. when it came out it was fucking beautiful (and still holds up pretty well), it has so many amazing moments, like the sense of Indiana Jones-y adventuring you can get from levels like Temple of Al Farum or Oasis of Nejeb or Temple of Inanna (the level design in general is absolutely superb. i don't think there's a single bad level in the whole game), the fucking mental traps that you need to go through to get the true sword and the real ending (they make everything in Soulsborne look like a kids game), the first time you encounter that Vampire Necromancer, how there's enemies in the bestiary who hate each other so you can get them to fight among themselves, how you can dismember enemies, the first time you find one of those special elemental weapons, how different the characters are... i have pretty much preyed to the gods of gaming every night since i finished Severance 7 times almost 2 decades ago to get something similar, until DeS finally came, but i can't vote for it... i've replayed it last time a couple of years ago, and the mechanics haven't aged nearly as well as the visuals/atmosphere, the characters aren't actually different enough (f.e. each having a different movement mechanic that would let you access different parts of some levels? a bit more variety than just the first level..), the story is subpar, the controls are beyond clunky, the progression way too linear, the dial-a-combo system is eh... :(

Demon's Souls was the game i have been waiting ever since i finished Severance all those many years ago. out of all the ones in the list, it has the best story+atmosphere (but not lore! :P), the setting is fantastic, and some of the ideas are great and it's "The First of its Name". but... i just can't vote for it. the mechanics are just way worse than all of the sequels in every single way, the build and weapon variety is pretty bad, the tendencies are good ideas but executed atrociously, most bosses are one-trick ponies and are boring to fight after the first time, most levels are mediocre, and i personally don't find any of the NPCs compelling other than meme material (just personal opinion). it's by far the least replayable in the series (but if you judged them on first-playthrough only, i'd say DeS is a very very close second to DS1) :(

and i'm having a difficult time deciding between DS2 and BB as the second vote. on one hand, DS2 is the pinnacle of Souls mechanically, it has the best online by a very, very wide margin, and the DLCs are by far the best Souls experience currently available, but on the other it's the ugliest (thanks to the last minute gutting of the engine and the overuse of 90ies era texture tiling), a bit too floaty (ironic, considering it's the only mocapped one) and some of the vanilla parts can be quite bad at times. and it has soul fucking memory. and BB takes the formula in a different enough direction to feel both familiar and alien enough, plus Lovecraft (though not really!) and great level design and visually and musically it's probably at the very top, but the magic system is crap (well, the spells are best they've been in the series by far, but making them cast by bullets was silly, and it's a bit too limited and needs quite a bit of metaknowledge to properly go arcane etc), it's too linear, combat feels to samey because of the focus on fast pace and aggressiveness so even though the weapons are the most diverse they have ever been, builds don't feel anywhere near as diverse as in DS2.

for now, my vote goes to DS2 because fuck the haters (and i used to be one ;)), even though deep down i probably think BB is the better of the 2

all in all, i would honestly vote for all of them (except DS3 :P), they're all great in their own way, and all are worth playing (yes, even DS3)

tl;dr: DS1 >>> DS2+BB > DeS + Severance + Nioh >>>>>>>>>> DS3
Other than your inclusion of Bloodborne, severance and nioh, I agree. DaS3 is last by virtue of being an absolute disappointment, with DaS1 as king, and 2 being either second, or tied with second with Demons Souls due to its potential for a wide swath of gameplay styles, and a robust NG+. It still pales in comparison to 1 due to subpar covenants, although belltower was good for what it was, and arena was the saving grace of the covenants. A feature locked behind a paywall by from in the third installment, for some idiotic reason.
 

Jezal_k23

Guest
I must have been the only person on the forum that didn't find DS3 linear at all. Played through to like the last 3 bosses or so before I only had a single boss to choose from. DS2 on the other hand was aggravating as hell- I didn't see the stupid chain hanging in the corner of the room on the way to Dragon Slayer, and the well was bullshit I never found the ladder for, so... yeah. Linear shitfest full of enemies with infinite poise, and stupid secrets you'd only ever find by being spoiled. Armor was totally irrelevant, and there were basically only ever two types of enemies for the whole game: enemies with shields you could stagger and enemies without shields you had to play the dodge game around.

If you lay out the world map the following way, you can clearly see DS3 is very linear:

Dks3-progress_map.jpg


Does it have detours? Yeah, I guess, albeit minor ones, especially considering what we've come to expect from the Souls series.

Here's DS2:

dark-souls-2-world-map.jpg


It becomes clear to me that DS2 experimented a lot more with non-linearity than DS3.
 

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