Bethesda vs. Bioware

[Xor]

Volourn is Volourn. Sometimes (very rarely) he actually makes good points, but most of the time his posts can be summed up as

r00fles

 

[Neeshka]

If you are here somewhere implying that Blizzard writes remotly decent storys.....

Not particularly.
They're not horrible; and they're not spectacular. But they usually don't have abysmal 5 yr old quest writing/dialogue like the more recent bioware/beth games do.

If I wanted to rate games exclusively for their stories i would include stuff like planescape torment, kotor, deus ex, mask of the betrayer and a number of fps games like bioshock, max payne and undying

 

[DraQ]

Volourns is gonna Volourn.

I improved your post (though at the cost of some clarity).

 

[BobtheTree]

Obsidian seems to be irrelevant to this discussion yes, they made New Vegas based off a Bethesda game, but they also made KotoR II and Neverwinter Nights 2 based off of two Bioware games.

When it comes down to it, I don't particularly care. Both have made really good games, both have made really terrible games. Neither seem to be making the kind of game right now that I'm interested in playing.

So what's Obsidian doing next?

 

[Volourn]

Nothing. But, hopefully it is as good as FO:LV and not as bad as AP.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

If you are here somewhere implying that Blizzard writes remotly decent storys.....

Not particularly.
They're not horrible; and they're not spectacular. But they usually don't have abysmal 5 yr old quest writing/dialogue like the more recent bioware/beth games do.

If I wanted to rate games exclusively for their stories i would include stuff like planescape torment, kotor, deus ex, mask of the betrayer and a number of fps games like bioshock, max payne and undying

No, just no. Blizzard is for the same reason they are loved in every other section worse here. They blantly copy stuff, then try to polish it. There is nothing, NOTHING originial about anything in Blizzard games. At least Bioware and Beth games are written by fanfiction authors. Blizz games are written by someone who has no idea about or connection to writing.

Not to mention that results in every game of theirs reusing plot points en masse.

 

[sigma1932]

Nothing. But, hopefully it is as good as FO:LV and not as bad as AP.

Well, let's hope their next project is a bit better than NV... As much as I wanted to like NV, and despite being a step in the right direction (at least at first), and it got worse with every DLC they released... until, in the end, it really just wasn't that great either...

Edit: quote added for clarity

 

[attackfighter]

If you are here somewhere implying that Blizzard writes remotly decent storys.....

Not particularly.
They're not horrible; and they're not spectacular. But they usually don't have abysmal 5 yr old quest writing/dialogue like the more recent bioware/beth games do.

If I wanted to rate games exclusively for their stories i would include stuff like planescape torment, kotor, deus ex, mask of the betrayer and a number of fps games like bioshock, max payne and undying

No, just no. Blizzard is for the same reason they are loved in every other section worse here. They blantly copy stuff, then try to polish it. There is nothing, NOTHING originial about anything in Blizzard games. At least Bioware and Beth games are written by fanfiction authors. Blizz games are written by someone who has no idea about or connection to writing.

Not to mention that results in every game of theirs reusing plot points en masse.

Blizzard's writing is some of the worst I have ever seen. StarCraft 2 is the crown jewel of their horrendousness.

 

[Roguey]

So what's Obsidian doing next?

Xbox live arcade action-RPG followed by cartoon-license RPG, possibly followed by original IP by Sawyer. I wouldn't expect anything like New Vegas from the first two.

 

[Phelot]

Betheda is in the business of making dumb games that can be fun.

Bioware has a severe identity crisis and it's not clear at the moment if they even like making games, let alone RPGs.

Pretty much this. At least Bethesda can make a halfway decent hiking sim, which is more than I can say for Bioware.

Seconded (or thirded, or whatever, didn't read past this)

I don't know what happened to Bioware, but I quite literally cringe at their games. Even LP's of it. I just can't stand them.

I was tricked into thinking ME was decent. It was awful. I was tricked into thinking DA:O was good. FUCK NO. So never again with their games. No matter how good someone says it is, even someone I trust, I simply can't stomach their shit anymore.


Bethesda, I would have said the same thing about, but I think Skyrim redeemed them a bit despite the loss of even more RPG mechanics and despite FO3. I don't really count FO:NV as being theirs, of course.

 

[Relay]

Bioware has a severe identity crisis and it's not clear at the moment if they even like making games, let alone RPGs.

This.
There is little freedom in how you play your character in bioware games nowadays. Choosing a class in ME2 or DA2 means less than leveling a skill in Skyrim. Being a rogue in DA2 won't allow you to actually play a ROGUE, there is nothing to do as a rogue, and in combat you are more like an acrobatic fighter than a rogue, while ME2 doesn't even feature a rogue archetype. No matter what you try to do, you're still Shepard and Hawke in the end. They're more than just names for a character predestined to act in a main quest. They are a straightjacket, pushed on you because what Bioware wants to do, is to tell stories, not to make games. Unfortunately for bioware, their stories sucks too, so their "games" are pretty much pointless.

 

[Volourn]

"Well, let's hope their next project is a bit better than NV... As much as I wanted to like NV, and despite being a step in the right direction (at least at first), and it got worse with every DLC they released... until, in the end, it really just wasn't that great either..."

I never said FO:LV was great. I'd say it's good. It has some awesomeness but also some flaws.


"There is little freedom in how you play your character in bioware games nowadays."

You have more freedom in the ME/DA series than you ever did in the BG series. FFS

Why do people make up such bullshit?

 

[Relay]

You have more freedom in the ME/DA series than you ever did in the BG series. FFS

You could (and sometimes break your savegame but hey that's a consequence to your choice of making people hostile) kill lots of people in the bg series, more so than in ME2/DA2 (which only allow you to kill people in scripted dialogue scenes). You could steal from merchants (and not just one single item as in DA2, not to mention that you can't do that at all in ME2). The gameplay was far more varied, and not limited to completely dumbed down actiony combat you find in DA2/ME2 (and in DA2 you have waves of enemies spawning from nowhere all the time). You could set trap yourself, and not just disable scripted traps, something you can't do in DA2/ME2. DA avoids some of those pitfall, which is why I mainly talk about DA2 which followed ME1 and ME2 ways of being an interactive movie whose sole gameplay consists of setting the tone of your character and not his actual ways. Chosing a diplomatic, sarcastic or pragmatic(agressive) tone doesn't cut it, sorry.

I could say more, but doing so against someone who is known as the worst bioware fanboy of the board is not worth it. You are the worst piece of shit of the codex, ever. Your defense of Bioware is seriously getting old, it could be justified in the times of NWN/KOTOR maybe (I'm not so sure about this one..), but now with DA2/ME2 they went full retard and anyone who tries to defend their games will obviously look like shills. Even Bethesda can make decent games when they try, but the last two biowarian games were nothing more than movies that asked for your input to set a "tone" of voice acting. Even Oblivion did NOT play like a movie, the way ass effect or derp ages does. Bioware obviously put too much work into cutscenes and not enough into the actual game. You can hate the games Bethesda make, but you can't argue against the fact that they are NOT trying to turn their games into a giant movie with gameplay being the second thought in between each of Shepard's sentences.

Mass Effect 3 is going to have a storyfag gameplay mode where you can tone down the actual gameplay for those who "enjoy" the story more. What the fuck.

Fuck you, fuck you until your sphincter bleeds like a volcano of blood.

 

[Volourn]

"Mass Effect 3 is going to have a storyfag gameplay mode where you can tone down the actual gameplay for those who "enjoy" the story more. What the fuck."

Optional. I won't be choosing that option. Anyone who chooses that option than whines about it is a dumbfuck. Isn't options a fukkin' good thing? FFS

Your 'examples' of why Bg series is'freeer's is frivilous at best but are the few points the BGs have over DA/ME. DA/ME you have way more dialogue options, you can choose to end in the game in multiple ways that effect multiple things. Only TOB gives you a very limited choci on how to end the series. BG2 isn't completely devoid of chocie but comapred to ME/DA series it is still very limited. You can fukkin' lose the game in ME2. Though it's hard to do the fact there is a chance of ACTUAL failure is a step up as well.

 

[Tel Prydain]

Your 'examples' of why Bg series is 'freeer's is frivilous at best but are the few points the BGs have over DA/ME. DA/ME you have way more dialogue options, you can choose to end in the game in multiple ways that effect multiple things. Only TOB gives you a very limited choci on how to end the series. BG2 isn't completely devoid of chocie but comapred to ME/DA series it is still very limited. You can fukkin' lose the game in ME2. Though it's hard to do the fact there is a chance of ACTUAL failure is a step up as well.

I'd agree that DA1 gives a whole lot more character freedom than BG1/2 in terms of the main plot, and with multiple ways to end quests.
But the downfall of DA1 is that the main quests make up 90% of the game. BG1 and 2 give a greater illusion of freedom than DA1 does. Hell, in BG1 you could spend hours exploring the map and doing side-quests that don't relate at all to the main story and let you create your own narrative.

Ideally, you'd see Bioware combine the open map and side-quests of BG1 with the branching plot structure of DA1. Then they'd add rtwp, bigger parties and queued commands. And then they'd have a game I'd like to play.

Sadly, they followed up with DA2... a game that makes me want to kick puppies.

But as far as DA1 goes, anyone saying that BG1 allowed for greater player agency is clearly full of shit.

 

[Volourn]

"illusion"

Volourn makes saving throw vs illusion.

I want things to be as close to real freedom not fake freedom. BIO games have enough 'illusional' freedom as it is.

The problem with the open world of BG1 is that all those open areas are pretty much void of anything of real value - with at most 1 or 2 of even remotely noteworthy encounters while DA and ME areas are largely packed with enoucnters that matter (depending on yourb viewpoint of BIO as a whole). This is why BG2 is vastly superior to BG1 and can still be reasonably held up to modern standards - less areas but the stuff you do them is often of much higher quality.