BG2's "Ascension" is a troll mod

[Yosharian]

Interesting reading through this old thread again!

I had a thought a few days ago regarding BG2 coincidentally.

Do you guys think it is possible to beat the game without *any* casters except a Bard?

I'm pretty sure the vanilla game has enough cheese in it that it's still possible. Right?

Yes but you will be using some scrolls and wands in tob. You could solo the entire game with a bard, I think blade would be best for that and for being the sole arcane caster.

I see, exactly what scrolls/wands are necessary? I dunno if I could be bothered with that

 

[KainenMorden]

Interesting reading through this old thread again!

I had a thought a few days ago regarding BG2 coincidentally.

Do you guys think it is possible to beat the game without *any* casters except a Bard?

I'm pretty sure the vanilla game has enough cheese in it that it's still possible. Right?

Yes but you will be using some scrolls and wands in tob. You could solo the entire game with a bard, I think blade would be best for that and for being the sole arcane caster.

I see, exactly what scrolls/wands are necessary? I dunno if I could be bothered with that

Breach, wand of spell striking mostly possibly Ruby ray, spell immunity. There's a mod called rogue rebalancing for ee that makes bards even more powerful along with including 2 encounters that are tough but yield op equipment, I don't play with it personally.

Blades are like a more balanced f/m, they would be a decent fit even in a tough SCS run, not sure if I'd roll with only 1 arcane caster in that scenario though.

Bards also lvl fast so your dispel/remove magic is more powerful than a mage but playing a vanilla game you can use keldorn for that.

 

[Fedora Master]

Telling that half the posts are in the vein of "Well, I beat that fight ez! No, I won't tell you how!"

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

>downloads mod to make the game harder
>ITS TOO HARD

imo, every combat mod (including this and SCS) is an exercise in tedium, and unnecessary.

Just turn the difficulty up, and or stop using cheese items and stop taking so many (or any) party members with you.

It's a fun little game that's good for what it is. Quit trying to make it into Dark Souls: Tactics.

 

[KainenMorden]

>downloads mod to make the game harder
>ITS TOO HARD

imo, every combat mod (including this and SCS) is an exercise in tedium, and unnecessary.

Just turn the difficulty up, and or stop using cheese items and stop taking so many (or any) party members with you.

It's a fun little game that's good for what it is. Quit trying to make it into Dark Souls: Tactics.

In BG games, playing solo is easier than a party but I see what you're saying. SCS "plays fair" and is an AI enhancement and a correction on enemy abilities and stats without being ridiculous. Playing it all the way turned up is different, even the creator doesn't play that way or recommend it.

I understand what you're saying though, yes these types of mods are not for everyone or even most players.

 

[Bester]

He dimension-doors away every 5 seconds. Very hard to catch with any spell that's not instant.

Literally this scene:

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

In BG games, playing solo is easier than a party

This isn't technically true. You just level faster. Only if you try to game fights to outlevel the content, it might be easier, but you could do that with a full party and just farming XP. It'll just be slower.

 

[KainenMorden]

In BG games, playing solo is easier than a party

This isn't technically true. You just level faster. Only if you try to game fights to outlevel the content, it might be easier, but you could do that with a full party and just farming XP. It'll just be slower.

I suppose there's more to it, including if you use the original BG1 and SoA lvl caps, which I do. Yes, soloing certain classes could be tougher than a party in that context.

 

[Sarathiour]

Ascension and SCS are an exercise in outjanking the engine and the better script. I found it fun, but I'm not going to pretend that I had to pull chess-master move level to clear it, when he reality I just threw shit until it sticks.

 

[octavius]

threw shit

That reminds me...what happened to Lilura?

 

[KainenMorden]

Ascension and SCS are an exercise in outjanking the engine and the better script. I found it fun, but I'm not going to pretend that I had to pull chess-master move level to clear it, when he reality I just threw shit until it sticks.

It definitely takes some thinking beyond the base game difficulty and there is quite a bit of "mage chess" that goes on.

What do you mean by threw shit exactly? Can you recall any specific tactics you used for specific encounters?

 

[Shaki]

>downloads mod to make the game harder
>ITS TOO HARD

imo, every combat mod (including this and SCS) is an exercise in tedium, and unnecessary.

It's true for mods like Ascension or Tactics, but SCS is amazing and makes the combat feel much better. It's completely customizable so any part you find tedious can be just turned off.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

It's true for mods like Ascension or Tactics, but SCS is amazing and makes the combat feel much better. It's completely customizable so any part you find tedious can be just turned off.

I might be misremembering SCS and whatever extra difficulty option it included.

I haven't installed it in many years, since one install had some sort of bug that aborted a game mid-playthrough.

I still think the base game is fine, provided you limit the amount of cheese you use.

 

[Sarathiour]

Can you recall any specific tactics you used for specific encounters?

Not really, I finished a new playthrough of BG1 SCS1+ beamdog things, and carrying it on to BG2 was on the list, dunno when I'm going to do it. The most annoying in bg1 is probably the iron throne one, because you're in a tight space with a bunch of backstabbing rogue, and limited tool to deal with it.
I did ascension 4 or 5 years ago, and I don't think you qualify the melissandre fight as anyhting lese than a giant clusterfuck when everyone run around like they're on meth while you try to setup or avoid a timestop sequences.

 

[ga♥]

Interesting reading through this old thread again!

I had a thought a few days ago regarding BG2 coincidentally.

Do you guys think it is possible to beat the game without *any* casters except a Bard?

I'm pretty sure the vanilla game has enough cheese in it that it's still possible. Right?

Yes possible, but why asking this in a ascension thread.
Ascension? Without a caster not possible, even to cheese it you need a level 9 arcane guy.

 

[Shaki]

Btw I'm pretty sure in new versions of Ascension you can install only the narrative changes, without all the retarded "challenge" modules, which should result in it actually being a pretty decent mod.

 

[KainenMorden]

Interesting reading through this old thread again!

I had a thought a few days ago regarding BG2 coincidentally.

Do you guys think it is possible to beat the game without *any* casters except a Bard?

I'm pretty sure the vanilla game has enough cheese in it that it's still possible. Right?

Yes possible, but why asking this in a ascension thread.
Ascension? Without a caster not possible, even to cheese it you need a level 9 arcane guy.

I've never done it personally but players have allegedly soloed ascension but he's not asking that anyways and yeah not sure if it was ever done with a bard

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I have successfully completed a solo and ironman challenge of the entire BG saga with SCS and Ascension exactly once. I did it with a wildmage. For the final battle, I did not have Balthazar or Bohdi on my side.

I will add the caveat that I was using aTweaks PnP Fiends, which makes demons/devils far more powerful by giving them their PnP stats and abilities. In some ways this is a buff because the PC can summon them. It's also a double edged sword, because so can enemy mages. The demons you start encountering in game are also far more dangerous because of it. It's mostly a buff until you get to Underdark. Then that sword starts cutting both ways. You certainly cannot spam them at the throne battle, because Amelyssan being a quasi-deity can no-save seize control of them. There is a neat trick you can do though. Summon demons with a projected image/clone, then imprison them. When the time is right, cast Freedom. You'll drop a swarm of demons on the battlefield all at once. Just makes sure you don't mix your fiends, otherwise you'll just import the Blood War and they'll only battle eachother.

I accidentally quasi-soloed SCS Ascension throne battle in ToB with a Cavalier. My party got absolutely wrecked immediately. If I recall correctly, the Fallen Planetar with arrows of slaying and Amelyssan with arrows of dispelling machine-gunned through my party in a couple of rounds. I think I had Balthazar bro'ing out with me though. He is pretty powerful, but mostly in that he's extremely tanky. He did die eventually. What helps in Ascension is that you get special abilities from absorbing the pools of divinity. The greatest challenge with ascension throne battle is surviving the first wave against the simultaneous Five. *One more thing. The faster you drain each pool of divine essence, the less time Amelyssan will have to power up. I don't recall on a technical basis what the advantages are, but she is noticeably easier to defeat. It's important not to dilly-dally after defeating the pool guardians, despite the urge to recooperate.

It's still one of the hardest battles in all of RPG in history, and probably the hardest. BG2 has several battles that can lay that claim--even just vanilla, with no Ascension or SCS. Twisted Run is one. Demogorgan (especially with Ascension) is another. Draconis is brutal. Various Liches and dragons. Sarevok final battle. So many good fights. Too many to recount without just listing off half of the saga.

 

[ga♥]

I have successfully completed a solo and ironman challenge of the entire BG saga with SCS and Ascension exactly once. I did it with a wildmage. For the final battle, I did not have Balthazar or Bohdi on my side.

Either you did the ascension final battle spamming skull traps and delayed fireballs (AKA cheesing), some kind of mod that overpowered you (and not the fiends one you said) or it's hard to believe it.

 

[KainenMorden]

I have successfully completed a solo and ironman challenge of the entire BG saga with SCS and Ascension exactly once. I did it with a wildmage. For the final battle, I did not have Balthazar or Bohdi on my side. I will add the caveat that I was using aTweaks PnP Fiends, which makes demons/devils far more powerful by giving them their PnP stats and abilities. In some ways this is a buff because the PC can summon them. It's also a double edged sword, because so can enemy mages. The demons you start encountering in game are also far more dangerous because of it. It's mostly a buff until you get to Underdark. Then that sword starts cutting both ways. You certainly cannot spam them at the throne battle, because Amelyssan being a quasi-deity can no-save seize control of them. There is a neat trick you can do though. Summon demons with a projected image/clone, then imprison them. When the time is right, cast Freedom. You'll drop a swarm of demons on the battlefield all at once. Just makes sure you don't mix your fiends, otherwise you'll just import the Blood War and they'll only battle eachother. I accidentally quasi-soloed SCS Ascension throne battle in ToB with a Cavalier. My party got absolutely wrecked immediately. If I recall correctly, the Fallen Planetar with arrows of slaying and Amelyssan with arrows of dispelling machine-gunned through my party in a couple of rounds. I think I had Balthazar bro'ing out with me though. He is pretty powerful, but mostly in that he's extremely tanky. He did die eventually. What helps in Ascension is that you get special abilities from absorbing the pools of divinity. The greatest challenge with ascension throne battle is surviving the first wave against the simultaneous Five. *One more thing. The faster you drain each pool of divine essence, the less time Amelyssan will have to power up. I don't recall on a technical basis what the advantages are, but she is noticeably easier to defeat. It's important not to dilly-dally after defeating the pool guardians, despite the urge to recooperate. It's still one of the hardest battles in all of RPG in history, and probably the hardest. BG2 has several battles that can lay that claim--even just vanilla, with no Ascension or SCS. Twisted Run is one. Demogorgan (especially with Ascension) is another. Draconis is brutal. Various Liches and dragons. Sarevok final battle. So many good fights. Too many to recount without just listing off half of the saga.

Ive read about the pnp fiends component, seems interesting maybe I'll try it some day.

I play SCS insane double damage using soa lvl cap with my main being 2 mage to fighter, didn't have HLAs, don't use iwd spells, don't use improved haste or lvl 9 scrolls, don't use defender of easthaven, irenicus in hell was a tough fight. Fron Tob on I feel it's ok to use imp haste and HLAs, etc

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I have successfully completed a solo and ironman challenge of the entire BG saga with SCS and Ascension exactly once. I did it with a wildmage. For the final battle, I did not have Balthazar or Bohdi on my side.

Either you did the ascension final battle spamming skull traps and delayed fireballs (AKA cheesing), some kind of mod that overpowered you (and not the fiends one you said) or it's hard to believe it.

Your skepticism is merited. I'm not sure any tactic can really be considered cheesing in SCS Ascension throne battle. I don't recall spawn camping, if that's what you're referring to.

Sequencers and Chain Contingency are key. The wild mage's ability to nova high level spells with Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is also fundamental. Timestop + Chain Contingency + Horrid Wilting. Then follow up with Chain Contingency + Mordenkeiden's Sword to run interference. With spells like simulacrum and project image, the word "solo" is open to interpretation. While Skull Trap gets a lot of attention on a Sequencer, don't underestimate the mighty Flame Arrow either. Each cast does 16d6 at Level 20, so one sequence full of them will do 48d6 to a single target. In 2E, dragons are about the only thing not immune to fire which will survive that.A Level 19 simulacrum using Nahal's to dump 12 magic missiles will do the job on just about anything. Wish for the refreash. Mages in BG2 have extraordinary power that can be used very creatively. It has yet to be matched to this day.

 

[ga♥]

I have successfully completed a solo and ironman challenge of the entire BG saga with SCS and Ascension exactly once. I did it with a wildmage. For the final battle, I did not have Balthazar or Bohdi on my side.

Either you did the ascension final battle spamming skull traps and delayed fireballs (AKA cheesing), some kind of mod that overpowered you (and not the fiends one you said) or it's hard to believe it.

Your skepticism is merited. I'm not sure any tactic can really be considered cheesing in SCS Ascension throne battle. I don't recall spawn camping, if that's what you're referring to.

No what I meant is spamming skull traps and delayed fireball before the battle start, and using wish to refresh the spell slots through the rest option.
Then when the battle starts the 5 and the fallen solars immediately die (exept Balthazaar which is a mofo, and maybe Yaga shura, but if you spam enough he dies as well), and then you only have to fight Melissan and Balthazaar (or just Melissan if Balthazaar sided with you) and demons spawned by her.

Since there's zero video or document of anyone finishing Ascension SCS solo without tactics like the aforementioned AND "godlike" mods, that I am aware of, I will consider your claim outrageous and just boasting, kind sir.

On the other had, with a full party it's extremely difficult, but it's doable.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Again, I get your skepticism. I think you're just not appreciating the kind of tricks a mage can do and the depths of the metaknowledge a decade of obsession can bestow. For example, Time stop + Shapechange into Illithid + Improved Haste from spell or Ring of Gaxx = Anything is dead. *Bonus: or bouncing lighting bolts between two mages with Spell Turning. 7x10d6 damage to everything caught in between. *maniacal evil laughter* Similar behavior with Agannazar's Scorcher. Reminiscing about all of this really makes me want to play again. I did an BG1:EE & SoD run with no mods a couple of years ago to see how "vanilla" holds up and check out SoD. I stopped once I got out of Chateau Irenicus. This conversation and the emergence of BG3 is really making me want to drop my Wrathfinder game and complete the saga again.

 

[octavius]

It's still one of the hardest battles in all of RPG in history, and probably the hardest.

I think it's the only mandatory battle I had to give up on in all my years of CRPG gaming. I had both SCS, Ascension and PnP Fiends installed, and I had a sub-optimal CHARNAME being a Cleric. And no Edwin.

BG2 has several battles that can lay that claim--even just vanilla, with no Ascension or SCS. Twisted Run is one. Demogorgan (especially with Ascension) is another. Draconis is brutal. Various Liches and dragons. Sarevok final battle. So many good fights. Too many to recount without just listing off half of the saga.

And yet the wankers focus on "all the trash fights"...

 

[ga♥]

Again, I get your skepticism. I think you're just not appreciating the kind of tricks a mage can do and the depths of the metaknowledge a decade of obsession can bestow. For example, Time stop + Shapechange into Illithid + Improved Haste from spell or Ring of Gaxx = Anything is dead. *Bonus: or bouncing lighting bolts between two mages with Spell Turning. 7x10d6 damage to everything caught in between. *maniacal evil laughter* Similar behavior with Agannazar's Scorcher. Reminiscing about all of this really makes me want to play again. I did an BG1:EE & SoD run with no mods a couple of years ago to see how "vanilla" holds up and check out SoD. I stopped once I got out of Chateau Irenicus. This conversation and the emergence of BG3 is really making me want to drop my Wrathfinder game and complete the saga again.

It's not tricks or anything else, it's about action economy, you can list whatever you want (time stop + shapechange is this supposed to be a secret tactic or something? even my granma knows about it), it's just not possible, so it never happened, there's just so much you can do with 1 char versus 6.

But anyway, if you identify as "person who finished ascension final battle with SCS and solo without cheese", I am not enough bigoted to not accept it