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BG2's map is a huge let down

RapineDel

Augur
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Messages
423
Baldurs Gate 1 was sort of it's own style of open world but having replayed it recently, suggesting there's "cool side content" to be found is not true. The game starts to feel stale clearing the exact same forests with the exact same dimensions time and time again and if there was was the chance of finding something truly interesting it would be worth it but for the most part you just find recycled ideas over and over. There's some good content in the game but it certainly doesn't come from those random forests.

Baldurs Gate 2 is huge already, would you really want random sections of the map open with filler in them just to pad it out? Removing random areas was not dumbing down the game as they already learned it wasn't a strength of theirs in the first game.
 

Feyd Rautha

Arcane
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Apr 17, 2009
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1,935
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Nestled atop the cliffs
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I think I just found the biggest disappointment in BG2 compared to BG1, the world map.

It's feels completely disconnected and doesn't offer any freedom for exploration. I really miss BG1 where you could reach points of interest and just wander off in whichever direction you want and be able to stumble on some cool side content.

The way BG2 is handles exploration is comparable to quest markers in modern games.

All in all, it's still a legendary cRPG but it really lacks freedom of exploration.
That was exactly my thought when I first left Athkatla to exlpore the world, all those years ago. I really loved BG1 so I was very disappointed about that. I still haven't played through all of BG2, couldn't be bothered.
 

Alec20

Novice
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
6
Both games have maps that suit their own styles.

BG1 is like going on a big adventure - you start off at level 1, and have that large forest-ish, walky-walky experience a lot of fantasy novels and games have at the start.
A large part of BG2 was more about big individual sidequests, which often had entire areas of their own. They made these areas more linear, but also more handcrafted and memorable to suit the tone of each quest. I'm sure everyone who's played it can associate every massive sidequest with every area map they had.
 

mfkndggrfll

Learned
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
546
Baldurs Gate 1 was sort of it's own style of open world but having replayed it recently, suggesting there's "cool side content" to be found is not true. The game starts to feel stale clearing the exact same forests with the exact same dimensions time and time again and if there was was the chance of finding something truly interesting it would be worth it but for the most part you just find recycled ideas over and over. There's some good content in the game but it certainly doesn't come from those random forests.

Baldurs Gate 2 is huge already, would you really want random sections of the map open with filler in them just to pad it out? Removing random areas was not dumbing down the game as they already learned it wasn't a strength of theirs in the first game.

As far as I remember, each map had at least 1-2 point(s) of interest. It was pretty dull exploring empty maps with the clunkier movement/engine but it felt rewarding because you would eventually stumble upon something interesting.

Also most of the time you had to discover locations yourself based on quest directions rather than get fast travel locations revealed by NPCs.

By the end of the game even if doing every possible side quests you would still have some unexplored map tiles which added a lot of extra content. I havent finished BG2 but I feel like when the main querst is going to be over I wont have anything else to do.
 

RapineDel

Augur
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Messages
423
Baldurs Gate 1 was sort of it's own style of open world but having replayed it recently, suggesting there's "cool side content" to be found is not true. The game starts to feel stale clearing the exact same forests with the exact same dimensions time and time again and if there was was the chance of finding something truly interesting it would be worth it but for the most part you just find recycled ideas over and over. There's some good content in the game but it certainly doesn't come from those random forests.

Baldurs Gate 2 is huge already, would you really want random sections of the map open with filler in them just to pad it out? Removing random areas was not dumbing down the game as they already learned it wasn't a strength of theirs in the first game.

As far as I remember, each map had at least 1-2 point(s) of interest. It was pretty dull exploring empty maps with the clunkier movement/engine but it felt rewarding because you would eventually stumble upon something interesting.

Also most of the time you had to discover locations yourself based on quest directions rather than get fast travel locations revealed by NPCs.

By the end of the game even if doing every possible side quests you would still have some unexplored map tiles which added a lot of extra content. I havent finished BG2 but I feel like when the main querst is going to be over I wont have anything else to do.

There's a key factor here though, it's not just about stumbling upon something, the content needs to actually be interesting or it's no different to modern open world games where you just wander around doing the same mindless activity over and over, that's what BG1's side content can feel like.

Everything you stumble upon is usually either a fetch quest or a very basic scenario where you have to kill something. The fact that doing most of this content (unless you want to just kill certain enemies in spots) is necessary to get your party to a level where you can start using the better spells doesn't help either as you can't really just skip it.

I should mention that I wouldn't have a problem with the similar scenery etc. if there was more variety in content. If I could stumble upon an interesting settlement, a mini dungeon, quests with more of a story etc. then I don't really care how any of it looks. One thing I'll give it though is it's quite cool finding random companions out in the wilderness, that's probably the highlight.
 

mfkndggrfll

Learned
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
546
The content I encountered was definitely interesting otherwise I wouldn't miss the exploration so much.

That content is also far from necessary, some of the map extremities are actually low level zones and dont yield much if done during the end game.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,428
Location
Grand Chien
I have decided to commentate on this thread because it suits my agenda. For those Codexers whom I have quoted, thanks for your unwitting participation.
I didn't mean literally empty, you pedant.

That said, I do agree with some of the points you made. On your blog. Instead of here. Wtf.

Overall, I still think that not much of value is lost. If they'd built upon what BG1 tried to do, rather than abandoning it altogether, then perhaps it could have been more meaningful, but I don't miss BG1's exploration.
 
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
2,509
Location
The Present
While I remember being disappointed with the different style of map (two decades ago, yikes!), it's perfectly suitable for BG2. BG1's story is about finding your own way and discovering a hidden enemy. It makes sense that you would spend some time wandering. In Baldur's Gate 2, the narrative is focused around a well defined pursuit. Wandering makes less narrative sense. Every area accessible outside of Athkatla is only accessible because of a lead-in quest, which is taken under the premise of raising funds. It works. The abstraction also permits resources to be spent on the rich areas with layers of excellent quests that made it the legend it is today. Furthermore, your character is no longer a lowly scrub. Placing 5 maps of various wild-life and goblin grade foes between you and Windspear Hills wouldn't be purposeful like it was when your characters were low levels. The same applies to Athkatla itself.
 

RapineDel

Augur
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Messages
423
It's what you said, though. I've quoted RapineDel and Bester , too. Not just you.

If you look at it technically then yes, each area is handcrafted and has unique content but is any of it actually any good? I found it all to be pretty bland and I don't think I'm alone in saying that. Exploration is rarely rewarded with much more then a kill/fetch quest and one of the worst things is finding exciting/hidden loot in these areas is downright impossible without a guide, now I'm talking about those items in the game that are hidden in a tiny crevice you'd have no hope of finding by accident, with no clues that I don't see many people finding without looking online. If there's clues for most of these that I missed then I'd love to know because they just seem to be there for the sole purpose of rewarding people who bought the guides way back when.

Also in a very recent play through I visited each area of each square map and it felt very similar to modern open world games that feel like a chore and not a pleasure to explore like Gothic. When you know you have little chance of finding anything interesting (as the patterns start to emerge) then the fun wears off. There's a reason that areas of interest are named in BG while the filler is not .
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Thanks for the replies, guys! I have a l'il announcement to make, and I know some of you will be happy to hear it.

I'm not going to be posting on the 'Dex anymore. I'm just going to log out, lurk from now on and commentate on the odd public forum post (GoG, reddit, 'Dex).

Thank you to everyone who has challenged me over the years. It's been fun to post here, but it's time to move on.

Cheers!

Lilura.
 

Melcar

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
35,222
Location
Merida, again
Thanks for the replies, guys! I have a l'il announcement to make, and I know some of you will be happy to hear it.

I'm not going to be posting on the 'Dex anymore. I'm just going to log out, lurk from now on and commentate on the odd public forum post (GoG, reddit, 'Dex).

Thank you to everyone who has challenged me over the years. It's been fun to post here, but it's time to move on.

Cheers!

Lilura.

Babe, we love you so and we want you to know, that we'll miss your hard love the minute you log off the board.
 

Atlantico

unida e indivisible
Patron
Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Vatnik In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Messages
14,485
Location
Midgard
Make the Codex Great Again!
Thanks for the replies, guys! I have a l'il announcement to make, and I know some of you will be happy to hear it.

I'm not going to be posting on the 'Dex anymore. I'm just going to log out, lurk from now on and commentate on the odd public forum post (GoG, reddit, 'Dex).

Thank you to everyone who has challenged me over the years. It's been fun to post here, but it's time to move on.

Cheers!

Lilura.

Don't leave, you're one of the few who demonstrate :obviously: taste in games and the wit to back it up and you're one of the few, the proud who doesn't suck the cock of BG2 Shadows of the Decline.

:love:
 

Projas

Information Superhighwayman
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
1,202
Location
Best Republic
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Thanks for the replies, guys! I have a l'il announcement to make, and I know some of you will be happy to hear it.

I'm not going to be posting on the 'Dex anymore. I'm just going to log out, lurk from now on and commentate on the odd public forum post (GoG, reddit, 'Dex).

Thank you to everyone who has challenged me over the years. It's been fun to post here, but it's time to move on.

Cheers!

Lilura.
Should post feet pics as a goodbye tbh
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,930
Location
The Swamp
If you look at it technically then yes, each area is handcrafted and has unique content but is any of it actually any good? I found it all to be pretty bland and I don't think I'm alone in saying that..

No one is totally alone. You're just part of a small minority.
 

Lagole Gon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
7,279
Location
Retaken Potato
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Pathfinder: Wrath
Thanks for the replies, guys! I have a l'il announcement to make, and I know some of you will be happy to hear it.

I'm not going to be posting on the 'Dex anymore. I'm just going to log out, lurk from now on and commentate on the odd public forum post (GoG, reddit, 'Dex).

Thank you to everyone who has challenged me over the years. It's been fun to post here, but it's time to move on.

Cheers!

Lilura.

Thank god, I can finally post my super cool Baldur's Gate threads without Lilura giving me "shit" ratings everywhere.
 

DavidBVal

4 Dimension Games
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Developer
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
2,994
Location
Madrid
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Pathfinder: Wrath
Thanks for the replies, guys! I have a l'il announcement to make, and I know some of you will be happy to hear it.

I'm not going to be posting on the 'Dex anymore. I'm just going to log out, lurk from now on and commentate on the odd public forum post (GoG, reddit, 'Dex).

Thank you to everyone who has challenged me over the years. It's been fun to post here, but it's time to move on.

Cheers!

Lilura.

It's always the best of us who leave first... :negative:
 

Saxon1974

Prophet
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
2,104
Location
The Desert Wasteland
I wonder if there is a mod that changes how this work in BG2? I like free exploring as well and this was always something I didnt like about BG2.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,428
Location
Grand Chien
It's what you said, though.
gXLFwL9.jpg
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,182
Location
Bjørgvin
Thanks for the replies, guys! I have a l'il announcement to make, and I know some of you will be happy to hear it.

I'm not going to be posting on the 'Dex anymore. I'm just going to log out, lurk from now on and commentate on the odd public forum post (GoG, reddit, 'Dex).

Thank you to everyone who has challenged me over the years. It's been fun to post here, but it's time to move on.

Cheers!

Lilura.

ra8va.jpg
 

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