Biomutant - open world post-apocalyptic kung fu with furries

[Tweed]

REFOONDED.

 

[ADL]

Can't they just stop bothering with levels and shit and just let you fight shit? Doom wouldn't magically get better if you fought Epic Uber Hellfire Heart-Under-Blade Imps with your God Masterforce Over The Rainbow Shotgun in the final episodes. Levels in open-world RPGs exist so that you can't just waltz into the endgame locations and start killing everything, why add level-scalling which lets you do exactly that? Why didn't anyone learn anything from Hollow Knight? You can have a big, open world action adventure game and keep wanking over levels to a minimum.

Based and redpilled post. MMOs are the worst offenders. If you've played an MMORPG in the last 15 years you've played them all. Skill unlocks are one thing but does anyone really need the 1-60 experience over and over again when it's really just a super long and annoying tutorial?

 

[Tye]

I find it hard to be mad at as basic a gaming convention as 'levels'. It'd be like bemoaning a platformer for going left. It's just part and parcel of the genre's DNA at this point. Sure it's neat when a developer decides to break from tradition, but I don't exactly find it tiring that most choose to play it safe.
Now, levels as an excuse to skimp on actual content? That's a trend I could do without. Only time will tell where Biomutant stands on this subject.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I find it hard to be mad at as basic a gaming convention as 'levels'. It'd be like bemoaning a platformer for going left. It's just part and parcel of the genre's DNA at this point. Sure it's neat when a developer decides to break from tradition, but I don't exactly find it tiring that most choose to play it safe.
Now, levels as an excuse to skimp on actual content? That's a trend I could do without. Only time will tell where Biomutant stands on this subject.

There is a point at making player go left in the platformed. There is little point in adding leveled mobs if the game has level scaling. It's just an excuse to make people watch numbers go up.

 

[Tye]

There is a point at making player go left in the platformed. There is little point in adding leveled mobs if the game has level scaling. It's just an excuse to make people watch numbers go up.

The 'point' in visible enemy levels in level scaling is to provide easy access to information about how difficult an area or enemy encounter should be, while allowing a sense of pride and accomplishment progression on the part of the player. Real 'lowest common denominator' stuff, I know, but games exist ultimately to make money.
For an example of this going wrong, just look at Oblivion, with its Daedric-equipped bandits and excess of mountain lions.
For an example of not doing this going wrong, I'd like to posit the multiple times in both Divinity: Original Sin titles wherein I had to Google a goddamn level map just to figure out where to go, because all accessible areas, save one, where too high a level for my party to get through.

 

[LudensCogitet]

Can't they just stop bothering with levels and shit and just let you fight shit? Doom wouldn't magically get better if you fought Epic Uber Hellfire Heart-Under-Blade Imps with your God Masterforce Over The Rainbow Shotgun in the final episodes. Levels in open-world RPGs exist so that you can't just waltz into the endgame locations and start killing everything, why add level-scalling which lets you do exactly that? Why didn't anyone learn anything from Hollow Knight? You can have a big, open world action adventure game and keep wanking over levels to a minimum.

Based and redpilled post. MMOs are the worst offenders. If you've played an MMORPG in the last 15 years you've played them all. Skill unlocks are one thing but does anyone really need the 1-60 experience over and over again when it's really just a super long and annoying tutorial?

Even skill unlocks are suspect in my mind unless both not having and having a skill deepens the game.

If gaining a skill just means you have an extra way to do the same stuff, or the new skill acquisition exactly keeps pace with the number of things there are to do (there are no walls to climb until you have the climbing shoes, or whatever), then what meaning does the variety have?

 

[HoboForEternity]

Codiak: Scaling level system and difficulty work together?

Stefan: Yes, makes it so the enemies still are hard, which means that we could have even better crazier weapons to match level scaling! makes sure the game is always fun and you not just always rolling the enemies easily at every stage.

sounds shit to me. damn promising game and creative setting ruined by this shit

 

[Jenkem]

How important do yous guys think Charisma is going to be, in the scheme of things?
It's one of the six primary stats but I haven't seen much in the way of dialogue trees or anything like that (note: I did not watch most of PDP's livestream).

IIRC the dev said there are definitely pacifist options in the dialogue choices particularly for faction related stuff and other things that high CHA characters can attain, as well as convincing characters to do various things... It also might make it easier to recruit companions you find.

 

[Jenkem]

Codiak: Scaling level system and difficulty work together?

Stefan: Yes, makes it so the enemies still are hard, which means that we could have even better crazier weapons to match level scaling! makes sure the game is always fun and you not just always rolling the enemies easily at every stage.

sounds shit to me. damn promising game and creative setting ruined by this shit

lol wait til the game is out to see how it works, from what footage we've seen and what else was said in the interview it doesn't seem to be abhorrently bad. also he says "not just always rolling..." which implies yeah you can and will do that at times.. will wait and play it and see.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

There is a point at making player go left in the platformed. There is little point in adding leveled mobs if the game has level scaling. It's just an excuse to make people watch numbers go up.

The 'point' in visible enemy levels in level scaling is to provide easy access to information about how difficult an area or enemy encounter should be, while allowing a sense of pride and accomplishment progression on the part of the player. Real 'lowest common denominator' stuff, I know, but games exist ultimately to make money.
For an example of this going wrong, just look at Oblivion, with its Daedric-equipped bandits and excess of mountain lions.
For an example of not doing this going wrong, I'd like to posit the multiple times in both Divinity: Original Sin titles wherein I had to Google a goddamn level map just to figure out where to go, because all accessible areas, save one, where too high a level for my party to get through.

I won't excuse garbage game design because games need to be profitable. I play them, I'm not a gaming company shareholder. It's not like you have to do this if you want to be profitable. There are smash hits releasing left and right that are free of this garbage. It's just a clutch for mediocre game devs who don't know any better. Some time ago it was to simply copy Call of Duty, then it was making cover-based shooters, then it was copying Ubisoft open-world games. Now they just put leveled enemies and loot rarity.

 

[Tye]

I won't excuse garbage game design because games need to be profitable. I play them, I'm not a gaming company shareholder. It's not like you have to do this if you want to be profitable. There are smash hits releasing left and right that are free of this garbage. It's just a clutch for mediocre game devs who don't know any better. Some time ago it was to simply copy Call of Duty, then it was making cover-based shooters, then it was copying Ubisoft open-world games. Now they just put leveled enemies and loot rarity.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the overall importance of leveled enemies in an RPG. Personally, I don't really feel as if it detracts from the experience (unless done really poorly, like most mechanics), but I also don't really care when games choose to eschew it, either.
In fact, I'm more worried about the appearance of Ubisoft-style camp takeovers. But then again, even BotW had them and that felt fine.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I won't excuse garbage game design because games need to be profitable. I play them, I'm not a gaming company shareholder. It's not like you have to do this if you want to be profitable. There are smash hits releasing left and right that are free of this garbage. It's just a clutch for mediocre game devs who don't know any better. Some time ago it was to simply copy Call of Duty, then it was making cover-based shooters, then it was copying Ubisoft open-world games. Now they just put leveled enemies and loot rarity.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the overall importance of leveled enemies in an RPG. Personally, I don't really feel as if it detracts from the experience (unless done really poorly, like most mechanics), but I also don't really care when games choose to eschew it, either.
In fact, I'm more worried about the appearance of Ubisoft-style camp takeovers. But then again, even BotW had them and that felt fine.

It's not like they're always bad. But adding leveled enemies to action game and level scaling at the same time is counter-productive. Level scaling guarantees that no matter where you are enemies always pose similar level of challenge. Which is exactly the same as simply making a normal shooter without bothering with adding the leveled enemies in the first place.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

daggerfall has level scaled enemies, yet nobody complains

probably because you're all a bunch of fakes who never play old games

 

[Tye]

It's not like they're always bad. But adding leveled enemies to action game and level scaling at the same time is counter-productive. Level scaling guarantees that no matter where you are enemies always pose similar level of challenge. Which is exactly the same as simply making a normal shooter without bothering with adding the leveled enemies in the first place.

If it doesn't do anything then why does it bother you so much? For all we know there's an option in the settings that lets you turn off level numbers in the UI completely.

 

[LudensCogitet]

Level scaling destroys the meaning of leveling and replaces it with the pleasure of a slot machine. Lights flash, numbers pop up. Numbers get bigger, you feel better.
The real question is why have leveling at all in the first place? Does it serve any other purpose besides the illusion of progress or gating content?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

It's not like they're always bad. But adding leveled enemies to action game and level scaling at the same time is counter-productive. Level scaling guarantees that no matter where you are enemies always pose similar level of challenge. Which is exactly the same as simply making a normal shooter without bothering with adding the leveled enemies in the first place.

If it doesn't do anything then why does it bother you so much? For all we know there's an option in the settings that lets you turn off level numbers in the UI completely.

Just because the systems work against each other it doesn't mean that they don't do anything. Action RPGs and action-adventure games both have advantages. RPGs introduce this sense of progression where you constantly improve your character and are able to take on bigger challenges. Best example is of course Gothic where at the beginning of the game you have to run away from most opponents and carefully pick your prey, but gradually you are able to go after stronger foes and curb-stomp the ones you've struggled against. Action adventure games have the advantage of not bothering the player with all that bullshit. You can go anywhere and do anything as soon as you are in the game. Leveled foes and level scalling together is worst of both worlds. You still need to upgrade your gear but enemies stay the same as they level with you. You don't upgrade your character to take on stronger foes, you upgrade it for the sake of seeing bigger numbers.

Additional problem is that it ruins the immersion. It makes me feel not as if I'm traveling through a fantasy world, but rather a theme-park perfectly designed to match my character.

It doesn't ruin the game completely, but makes me move it to "perhaps will buy if it's on sale" category.

 

[Tyranicon]

I wonder if the game is even remotely mod-friendly. If it is, expect one of the first mods to be a space marine with a big honking dick flamer.

I would 100% day one purchase this if that is in the cards.

 

[Abu Antar]

I wonder if the game is even remotely mod-friendly. If it is, expect one of the first mods to be a space marine with a big honking dick flamer.

I would 100% day one purchase this if that is in the cards.

There's no planned mod support.

 

[Abu Antar]

I wonder if the game is even remotely mod-friendly. If it is, expect one of the first mods to be a space marine with a big honking dick flamer.

I would 100% day one purchase this if that is in the cards.

There's no planned mod support.

https://www.thqnordic.com/article/biomutant-faq

Edit:
The marketing push is getting more serious. Not only PDP has played. Conan O'Brien played it, and Cohh Carnage will play it.

Rebought Embracer stock again. I'm banking on this not to tank. I'm currently at +10%.

Buy Biomutant, make me rich.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The marketing push is getting more serious. Not only PDP has played. Conan O'Brien played it, and Cohh Carnage will play it.

and just like that, I knew it was going to be awful

 

[Wunderbar]

The marketing push is getting more serious. Not only PDP has played. Conan O'Brien played it, and Cohh Carnage will play it.

who is PDP?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

who is PDP?

YouTube's highest paid and most prominent personality, whose real name is Felix Kjellberg, used a racial slur during a livestream video playing Battle Royale shooter PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds.

In the video, PewDiePie can be seen getting frustrated with another player and shouting to him: “What a fucking n-,” before immediately correcting himself: “Sorry, but what the fuck. What a fucking asshole.”

-

Also do people honestly enjoy getting upgrades that give you an additive 1% damage bonus, or 1% more armour?

Isn't it more fun to have to work towards a gear upgrade that you feel the difference the moment you equip?

I really don't get this ADHD inflicted generation of nu-gamers. You'd think less pointless number crunching would actually appeal to them.

Nobody enjoys it, it's a common complaint and whenever a game changes that in a patch it's well received. But people do enjoy frequently getting items, so...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

But people do enjoy frequently getting items,

no, no I don't
one of my biggest pet peeves with modern RPGs is all the trash items absolutely everywhere

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Americans aren't people. But the point is that people love playing dress-up, especially in open world games with customizable characters.

 

[cruel]

It seems that preorders for this are number 1 top seller on Steam, passing Days Gone and Resident Evil.

I'm so conflicted by this game though. It looks charming, seems like somebody put a lot of love into it, and is an actual game, not an interactive movie. At the same time, all the objectives / quests seem to be taken from a crappy Ubisoft game :/ Couldn't they hire somebody competent for quest design? Still, I remain optimistic and maybe will even buy.