Editorial BioShock is profound, like Homer's Iliad

[DarkUnderlord]

Tags: BioShock

For some reason or another, BioShock seems to be the "study of the month" for editorials. <a href="http://livingepic.blogspot.com/2008/06/living-epic-main-quest-consolidation.html">In a series of blog posts</a> Roger Travis, a professor of classics, is attempting to make the argument "<i>about how video games are actually ancient, how they reawaken the anicent oral epic tradition represented above all by the epics of the Homeric tradition, the Iliad and the Odyssey</i>"... <a href="http://livingepic.blogspot.com/2008/06/non-choice-of-achilles-or-not-killing.html">and he's using BioShock in his example</a>:
<br>
<blockquote>Now a bard who was singing a part of the big story called “The Wrath of Achilles” (what we know as the Iliad) couldn’t change the fact that Achilles comes back to battle, eventually to die. But he could most certainly change the way that coming back went down. At some point, one bard did, and came up with the immortal lines I quoted above about what’s been known forever after as the Choice of Achilles.
<br>
<br>
But that means that the Choice of Achilles actually isn’t a choice at all, because Achilles can’t leave, any more than the main character of Bioshock can leave the underwater city of Rapture before the end of the game. (This is what I meant about sandboxes and rails, by the way.)
<br>
<br>
Remember that moment when Andrew Ryan tells you to kill him? Isn’t it strange that you absolutely have to do that, or the game won’t proceed?
<br>
<br>
Here’s the thing. The relationship of the bard to the (non)-Choice of Achilles is exactly the same as the relationship of the player of Bioshock to killing Andrew Ryan. Ken Levine, author of Bioshock, and the Homerid who came up with the Choice of Achilles were both saying something really, really important about free will, which could only be delivered by exposing the way things that seem like choices really aren’t choices at all, most of all when it matters most.</blockquote>
<br>
Yes, removing any and all choice is deeply profound and meaningful... Sorry, what? Anyway, if this kind of stuff tickles your reading bone, <a href="http://livingepic.blogspot.com/2008/06/living-epic-main-quest-consolidation.html">here's the list of posts in the series so far</a>.
<br>
<br>
Spotted @ <a href="http://www.bluesnews.com/">BluesNews</a>

 

[Herbert West]

He's desperately trying to be modern

This compulsion introduced in BIoshock, and used by Fontaine and Ryan (and the game itself) to make or force the player to do certain things is just a gimmick used to justify linearity and railroading. Albeit a clever one, since in nigh all shooters linearity is just there, and in Bioshock it's given a flase reason for its existence, woven into the plot, rather than none at all.

 

[BillyOgawa]

..

 

[Hory]

Again, the assumption that games should be like other mediums. Simply for the sake of diversity, they shouldn't. Humans have thousands of years of experience in writing linear stories, but dramatic non-linear ones require a new type of writer-designer. For now, simply too few try it for us to have consistent good examples.

 

[gc051360]

Talk about reading way too much into something.

 

[Wyrmlord]

What the hell is wrong with people trying to uphold Bioshock as "a high form of art"?

God, it's getting annoying now. It makes me cringe.

 

[Kingston]

Eurgh. My stomach hurts. Get me one cc of :picardfacepalm:, stat!

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Here it is dr. Kingston

 

[Oarfish]

The concept was significantly less retarded than most games, if a little too 'lol ayn rand'. It's the kind of thing that would be mediocre on the sci fi channel, the fact that so many games journalists are scrambling over themselves to make out something it is not is an indication of quite how shitty most game plot lines are. Also, the medium as at its best when not being used to deliver linear narrative, especially in such a contrived way as finding tapes everywhere. Levine needs to get some new tricks.

 

[JarlFrank]

How the fuck can that guy even compare retelling an ancient story with a fixed storyline that everybody knows about with playing a game, which is an inter-active story that the player can change? How retarded do you have to be to come to such an idea?

 

[Serious_Business]

He's an 'associate professor', not a professor. I seriously think this man should have kept playing Halo on his couch and left Homer alone because this is not cool

 

[J1M]

He's an 'associate professor', not a professor. I seriously think this man should have kept playing Halo on his couch and left Homer alone because this is not cool

If you think that makes a difference you don't know much about academia.

The guy is stupid for what he says, and will remain that way even after he gets a promotion to remove that associate word.

 

[Brother None]

I wonder if it's possible to talk any sense into someone who drools that much about the Iliad - one of the biggest outlets for pseudo-intellectuals in the world. People who spend all their time humping the Iliad tend to be "the wrong kind of people", but I dunno, maybe he's genuinely looking at this new medium and just making the mistake of applying rules to the medium that don't apply to it at all.

Or maybe he's just trying to build an intellectual façade to make himself look smart.

I'm guessing the latter. But who knows.

 

[Sir_Brennus]

I wonder if it's possible to talk any sense into someone who drools that much about the Iliad - one of the biggest outlets for pseudo-intellectuals in the world. People who spend all their time humping the Iliad tend to be "the wrong kind of people", but I dunno, maybe he's genuinely looking at this new medium and just making the mistake of applying rules to the medium that don't apply to it at all.

Or maybe he's just trying to build an intellectual façade to make himself look smart.

I'm guessing the latter. But who knows.

Kharn, what's your problem with the Illiad? My Ancient History professor in my first term called it "one of the roots of western civilization". Not that this kind of thing is naturally a good one, but I thought Holland belonged to the western world?

By the way: Go Oranje, go! I hope for another Holland-Germany final (ending up like '74, of course) :D

 

[Brother None]

Kharn, what's your problem with the Illiad? My Ancient History professor in my first term called it "one of the roots of western civilization". Not that this kind of thing is naturally a good one, but I thought Holland belonged to the western world?

Being forced to read it in Greek in high school is probably the root of my problems with it. Though we spent more time on the Odyssey.

Anyway, I have no problem with the work itself. But, though I hate the term, it is "overrated". It's pretty boring to read, and whenever you say it's boring to read some pseudo-intellectual twat will pop up saying you're just not smart enough to get it, or whatever.

It's a profound and important piece of literature (though it's not really a piece of literature, but you know what I mean). It is not nearly worth all the attention heaped upon it, and (ab)using it as a comparative material in pieces on the profundity of gaming shows exactly how (pseudo-)intellectuals abuse it to look smart. Which is not the work's own fault, but it's still stupid.

 

[Gragt]

Anyway, I have no problem with the work itself. But, though I hate the term, it is "overrated". It's pretty boring to read, and whenever you say it's boring to read some pseudo-intellectual twat will pop up saying you're just not smart enough to get it, or whatever.

I have to admit that while I consider the Iliad (and Odyssey) as an important part of our cultural background and on a personal level it is a work I really like, most of it is indeed boring though some parts really shine and have lost nothing of their strenght even now, my two favourite being Hector's farewell to his wife and Priam begging Achilles to return him the body of his son. Just because one finds some work boring does not mean one can't appreciate the greatness of the work but it seems a lot of people have some trouble with that concept.

It's a profound and important piece of literature (though it's not really a piece of literature, but you know what I mean). It is not nearly worth all the attention heaped upon it, and (ab)using it as a comparative material in pieces on the profundity of gaming shows exactly how (pseudo-)intellectuals abuse it to look smart. Which is not the work's own fault, but it's still stupid.

It seems to me that Bioshock is being used to try to convince people that video games can be a "higher" way to spend your time. For exemple here in Belgium, I saw a few newspaper having a one page article, sometimes two, talking of the game, something I've never seen before as usualy when video games were mentioned in newspaper it was because they were linked to murders, epilepsy and other bad things. The general concensus on Bioshock however is that for the first time a video game manages to blend an artistic presentation, intelligent story and excellent gameplay. While it made chuckle at how little journalists knew of games, it made me think that this had never been done here before for a game and I suspect it was the same in other parts of the world just by checking the opinions on the net. So that now some scholar (which can be a good or a bad thing) decides to compare it to the Iliad does not surprise me much. I just feel that those people sorely lack knowledge in video game history as well as honesty and could have picked a far more interesting game to laud as a "serious" or "intelligent" game, for exemple Planescape: Torment.

 

[BillyOgawa]

..

 

[dagorkan]

BN's showing his moronicity, the Iliad is a great work to read though I don't know about studying it.

 

[Gragt]

Speaking of my own experience, studying it is nice but then again I had a good teacher.

 

[Brother None]

The author of the comparison is defending himself in the comments on the ROCK PAPER SHOTGUN blog post about the article. Look for Roger Travis.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1959

He's also talking on his own blog, dontchaknow

BN's showing his moronicity, the Iliad is a great work to read though I don't know about studying it.

Aye, I do not masturbate to the Iliad, hence I must be of substandard intelligence.

 

[youhomofo]

BN's showing his moronicity, the Iliad is a great work to read though I don't know about studying it.

Studying it is the only way to truly understand and appreciate it. One brisk read doesn't really impart much. Whether or not you'll actually enjoy studying the Iliad is largely in the hands of your professor, however.

 

[4too]

Format Creep

Format Creep





Several before have already stated games are being hijacked out of their play-action context.

Can't sell a game as a game in this post modem, WiFi, broad band time line, got to be a pan media format epic, or bust.

Games seem to not to be able to stand on their own game-play.

The money must be too big, and now games ain't games no mo'.

[Chorus} Format creep is ancient and epic!



Labored through reading english version of this ancient story in lit' class.

READING a tale created in the era of oral presentation --- lose? no --> lose-lose.

LISTENED to a book on tape production a few years back, and maybe the ages of academics were not lying to justify a pay check.

The original format was ancient greek, to be spoken, to be performed.

I have to settle for english translation, AND it's qualities seemed like just more bullsh-t until I heard an oral rendition.

READING an ORAL work?

[Chorus} Format creep is ancient and epic!

Seeds for hubris ... epic, reading an oral work blossoms into ''epic fail''.

[Chorus} Format creep is ancient and epic!

Studying games in web blog abstracts is not playing the original game.

[Chorus} Format creep is ancient and epic!

Reading because the prof is not a good 'singer of Homer' that's true classicism.

[Chorus} Format creep is ancient and epic!




4too

 

[Truth]

MGS4: Is there a message about American domination?

 

[kingcomrade]

It's my sister's birthday so we saw Get Smart then ate at Chili's (jesus) and now they're watching Homeward Bound. My birthday is coming up (my 21st) and I'll bet it's gonna be cool, all my friends will be out of town and my parents keep making jokes about doing shots with me.

 

[Truth]

It's my sister's birthday so we saw Get Smart then ate at Chili's (jesus) and now they're watching Homeward Bound. My birthday is coming up (my 21st) and I'll bet it's gonna be cool, all my friends will be out of town and my parents keep making jokes about doing shots with me.

I had a great bowel movement earlier. One of those that makes you feel 5 lbs. lighter and refreshed. As it was passing, I think it brushed on my prostate as I felt the orgasmic rush and fluid seeped out of my (stiffening) cock. How divine.