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Bioware strikes back: Revenge of the shit

Jaesun

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They are both shit.
 

Stinger

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So basically, now the only thing she has in common with The Exile of Kotor 2 is that they have the same title?

Also....why is Bioware doing that? I understand retconning the Exile because you're too stupid to actually understand what her powers were and what they represented. I also understand retconning Kreia because fucking Star Wars can't handle any criticisms of its horrible morality system and dumbass Force mythology.

But why retcon even the basic elements of The Exile's character?
 

anus_pounder

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Delirius said:
I luv you Codex so I will share a piece of info about Exile which I didn't yet tell anyone. In SWTOR's Jedi Knight's story it's "revealed" by Lord Scourge that Exile was in fact Revan's apprentice. Not a fellow Jedi/general like MCA led us to believe. Or maybe she was before (fuck if I know) but after being fucked by Atton and killing Kreia she earned the right to have Revan as her Goshujin-sama. It's clearly said she was his student. Finally it's confirmed Exile sucks Revan's dick in all ways possible like that other hoe Jennifer Hale.

Oh and btw Jedi Knight's story was also written by Drew Karpyshyn. TAKE THAT BITCHES!

Drew Karpyshyn vs David Gaider who is better and why

You gotta be shitting me. :retarded:
 

corvus

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Drew Karpyshyn said:
Here is an accurate description of the KOTOR “twist” out of context: you have amnesia, and it turns out you’re the bad guy all along. Taken in that fasion, it sounds really, really dumb. In fact, when we first started pitching KOTOR’s plot to people, they talked about how dumb, predictable and cliche it was. Most people thought the twist was lame. Why? Because they heard it out of context. There was no build up. No nuance. No subtlety. The twist was only a small part of the entire experience, and it worked with many other facets to evoke a powerful reaction. Most people who played the game feel that KOTOR’s story and the twist represent a watershed moment in video game writing and story telling… but if you heard that twist before and decided it was stupid, you would have ruined much of the KOTOR experience for yourself. So, please, before you decide the book sucks, at least have the decency to read it for yourself. Try to keep an open mind and you might be surprised.

Revan's reveal was very impressive. When I was 16. I prefer my twists to be of a more cerebral nature now though.

Delirius said:
I luv you Codex so I will share a piece of info about Exile which I didn't yet tell anyone. In SWTOR's Jedi Knight's story it's "revealed" by Lord Scourge that Exile was in fact Revan's apprentice. Not a fellow Jedi/general like MCA led us to believe. Or maybe she was before (fuck if I know) but after being fucked by Atton and killing Kreia she earned the right to have Revan as her Goshujin-sama. It's clearly said she was his student. Finally it's confirmed Exile sucks Revan's dick in all ways possible like that other hoe Jennifer Hale.

Oh and btw Jedi Knight's story was also written by Drew Karpyshyn. TAKE THAT BITCHES!

It's almost too derp to be true. Then again I wouldn't put it past 'em.
 
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Delirius said:
I luv you Codex so I will share a piece of info about Exile which I didn't yet tell anyone. In SWTOR's Jedi Knight's story it's "revealed" by Lord Scourge that Exile was in fact Revan's apprentice. Not a fellow Jedi/general like MCA led us to believe. Or maybe she was before (fuck if I know) but after being fucked by Atton and killing Kreia she earned the right to have Revan as her Goshujin-sama. It's clearly said she was his student. Finally it's confirmed Exile sucks Revan's dick in all ways possible like that other hoe Jennifer Hale.

Oh and btw Jedi Knight's story was also written by Drew Karpyshyn. TAKE THAT BITCHES!

Drew Karpyshyn vs David Gaider who is better and why

guy who raped exile against guy who in his free time made ascension mode to that clusterfuck called throne of haaal?

gaider easily :troll:






ohhhh wait you meant who is better writter? both are terrible :smug:
 

Jaesun

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poster on another forum that is reading the actual book said:
After reading the spoilers for the TOR novel By Drew K.

I have to say that the amount of retconning of KOTOR 2 story is stunning.

After getting and reading a uncorrected proof of this story, pretty sure most people will think it sucks.

There are three main characters throughout: Revan, the Exile (now named Meetra Surik,) and a Sith Lord in the Emperor's service named Darth Scourge.

Revan's story is pretty simple. His dreams are bothering so he leaves his newly pregnant wife to go find out what's going on. He starts off his quest by visiting a planet the Mandolorians are on and helping Canderous find the old Mandalore's mask. Kills Canderous' wife in the process. The information he finds there leads him to the Emperor's home world, which has been stripped of life and made completely empty of the Force. Revan upon leaving is shot down by Scourge and his master and then drugged for two years so he can't do anything.

Scourge is also pretty simple. He's brought to the Imperial capital as part of a political machinations between the council right under the Emperor. He goes around doing things for them, though its pretty painful to read as he likes the tactic of bullrushing shooting enemies while hoping his armor protects him instead of blocking with his lightsaber and cutting people apart. Eventually he learns that the person he's under and a number of the people on the Dark Council are talking about betraying the Emperor because he wants to go after the Republic again. But they're all talk and don't do anything. Eventually they capture Revan and keep him captive for two years. Drugged Revan talks and does him mojo on this guy during this time, none that we actually see, and doesn't actually matter much since it doesn't come to much in the end. Except for the last bit, where he says he has a vision of escape.

Then you have the Exile, Meetra Surik. Bastila finds her and sends her after Revan. First thing you should know, is that Karpyshyn takes the game he did not write for and retcons everything interesting out of it. The Exile is a normal Jedi who was cut off from the Force and became a normal Jedi when she got it back. The Sith Lords are barely even mentioned aside from the fact that they hunted down the Jedi. Oh, Nihilus' power doesn't exist, in fact it can't exist. A big deal is made that the Emperor does the same thing and its something nobody has ever experienced before. The planet he stripped of the force to empower himself is very traumatic to Meetra, despite her in the game being the same thing. So, that part of the story of KOTOR 2 is retconned. Along with everything that came with it.

Anyway, she goes and finds this world and eventually ends up on the Imperial Capital. She finds Scourge, gets him to help her rescue Revan since he was told by him that a rescue would be coming and go and face the Emperor. Oh, Meetra is completely overwhelmed by Scourges master Sith through the use of Sith Lighting until Revan comes out and murderizes her to save the damsel. Anyway, they go face the Emperor where the three of them go face to face, until Scourge gets a vision of a different Jedi facing the Emperor. Figuring this must be the red skinned bastard's eventual killer, he stabs Meetra in the back with his lightsaber and the Emperor electrocutes Revan into submission. He locks Revan up in cryo to spend time plumbing his mind for information to help with his takeover of the Republic. Meetra's spirit refuses to join the Force and sticks with Revan to help him resist. Revan puts thoughts of caution into the Emperor's head, which is how he delays the coming invasion. The end.

I wish I was describing satire or fanfiction, but I'm not so lucky.
 

Menckenstein

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Jaesun said:
poster on another forum that is reading the actual book said:
After reading the spoilers for the TOR novel By Drew K.

I have to say that the amount of retconning of KOTOR 2 story is stunning.

After getting and reading a uncorrected proof of this story, pretty sure most people will think it sucks.

There are three main characters throughout: Revan, the Exile (now named Meetra Surik,) and a Sith Lord in the Emperor's service named Darth Scourge.

Revan's story is pretty simple. His dreams are bothering so he leaves his newly pregnant wife to go find out what's going on. He starts off his quest by visiting a planet the Mandolorians are on and helping Canderous find the old Mandalore's mask. Kills Canderous' wife in the process. The information he finds there leads him to the Emperor's home world, which has been stripped of life and made completely empty of the Force. Revan upon leaving is shot down by Scourge and his master and then drugged for two years so he can't do anything.

Scourge is also pretty simple. He's brought to the Imperial capital as part of a political machinations between the council right under the Emperor. He goes around doing things for them, though its pretty painful to read as he likes the tactic of bullrushing shooting enemies while hoping his armor protects him instead of blocking with his lightsaber and cutting people apart. Eventually he learns that the person he's under and a number of the people on the Dark Council are talking about betraying the Emperor because he wants to go after the Republic again. But they're all talk and don't do anything. Eventually they capture Revan and keep him captive for two years. Drugged Revan talks and does him mojo on this guy during this time, none that we actually see, and doesn't actually matter much since it doesn't come to much in the end. Except for the last bit, where he says he has a vision of escape.

Then you have the Exile, Meetra Surik. Bastila finds her and sends her after Revan. First thing you should know, is that Karpyshyn takes the game he did not write for and retcons everything interesting out of it. The Exile is a normal Jedi who was cut off from the Force and became a normal Jedi when she got it back. The Sith Lords are barely even mentioned aside from the fact that they hunted down the Jedi. Oh, Nihilus' power doesn't exist, in fact it can't exist. A big deal is made that the Emperor does the same thing and its something nobody has ever experienced before. The planet he stripped of the force to empower himself is very traumatic to Meetra, despite her in the game being the same thing. So, that part of the story of KOTOR 2 is retconned. Along with everything that came with it.

Anyway, she goes and finds this world and eventually ends up on the Imperial Capital. She finds Scourge, gets him to help her rescue Revan since he was told by him that a rescue would be coming and go and face the Emperor. Oh, Meetra is completely overwhelmed by Scourges master Sith through the use of Sith Lighting until Revan comes out and murderizes her to save the damsel. Anyway, they go face the Emperor where the three of them go face to face, until Scourge gets a vision of a different Jedi facing the Emperor. Figuring this must be the red skinned bastard's eventual killer, he stabs Meetra in the back with his lightsaber and the Emperor electrocutes Revan into submission. He locks Revan up in cryo to spend time plumbing his mind for information to help with his takeover of the Republic. Meetra's spirit refuses to join the Force and sticks with Revan to help him resist. Revan puts thoughts of caution into the Emperor's head, which is how he delays the coming invasion. The end.

I wish I was describing satire or fanfiction, but I'm not so lucky.

I feel bad for MCA, and us.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Not to mention MCA is way too humble for his own good, and will just applaud this. Well, that's the most likely scenario. The guy never misses a chance to belittle or criticize his own work.
 

Menckenstein

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Vaarna_Aarne said:
Not to mention MCA is way too humble for his own good, and will just applaud this. Well, that's the most likely scenario. The guy never misses a chance to belittle or criticize his own work.

Funny that both MCA and Sawyer shit all over their own work. Is it part of the BI/OE creed? MCA and Sawyer are two halves of the same person, kind of like Twoface except one's a giant weepy storyfag and the other is a cold, emotionless designbot.
 

Menckenstein

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Mangoose said:
Lol.

By the way, it's designbot's birthday.

He's celebrating by hosting a small gathering of friends and submitting them to a powerpoint slideshow of how his life is poorly designed and implemented, followed by a Q&A on his choice of throw pillows and how degenerate interior design breaks the living room comfort experience.

Happy birthday JES, you're really creepy but we love you anyway (mostly).
 

Jaesun

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http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b ... 667765/p48

MOAR info:

Revan is not a Sith after Malachor V battle. It even appears that Malachor is not the final battle of the Mandalorian Wars. It’s even in contradiction with KotOR the first. During this war, he recites the jedi code before going to battle, far for the dark master mind kotor II said he was…

Atris is described having the same age than Bastila. How is it possible since she is in the council just after the Great Sith War and in the KotOR comics when Bastila is just a padawan or not even born. I mean seriously Drew, just check the wookie.

Revan never intended to make a Sith Republic to fight the Emperor he just forget him. When meeting the Emperor he lost the battle of will and began his puppet, invading the republic. But the Emperor also underestimated him and his strong mind began to make Revan think he was invading the Republic by free will, forgetting the Emperor. Same for Malak...

A Jedi Council still exist just after the event of KotOR II… I retcon this by saying it refers to The Lost Jedi and Atris 'cause it's the Exile who mentionned this Council but it felt really weird. Btw Bastila seems not be part of the rebirth of the Jedi Order.

Revan never went to Malachor after KotOR and it seems he never went at all ‘cause he is still a good jedi who never stop to be brainwashed by either the sith or the jedi

He never met Kreia after KotOR nor gave to her the Ebon Hawk, T3 and HK. It’s a wonder how Kreia got to get in possession of the Hawk at all. She is described as Kreia a Jedi who left the order after KotOR and called hersef sith. It’s never said they are the remnant of Revan Sith Empire. Sadly it means we never got a chance to know if Kreia is Arren Kae I was hoping to see that in this book but it was just wishful thinking on my part.

Revan never erased HK memory

Revan never said to Carth that he had to prepare the Republic even if we can say he did it off screen. Btw how strange as it seems, Carth never get a mention in this book.

Overall Revan was just a good republican who went to Dromund Kaas 'cause Mandalore told him the Sith were behing the Mando Wars, he didn't know before. Reading this book it seems Revan was a good guy even during the Mandalorian Wars, it wasn’t his fault his followers went dark and he just became a Sith because of the Emperor.

Arriving on Dromund Kaas he plays spy and just get controlled by the Emperor who forced him to the Dark Side and to conquer the Republic. His Will was strong so he began to think he was acting on his own choice and forgot the Emperor. Seriously this is lame.
 

Mangoose

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Wait, what. So pre-Kotor brainwashing, Revan was simply a brainwashed puppet of the Emperor. But because he had awesome Force Willpower, Revan subconsciously deludes himself into forgetting the Emperor.

So having high Willpower means you somehow develop a mental disorder. What?

Edit: Also, he mentioned Kreia might be Arren Kae... Who is Handmaiden's mother. Interesting...
 

Stinger

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No the Kreia/Arren Kae/Handmaiden's mother theory was a fan theory that had been circulating around that Chris Avellone kinda shrugged off with a statement like "can't comment, but nice catch". What that guy is saying is that Kreia's relationship to Revan is being shafted and we'll never know if she really was Arren Kae.

Also, Jesus someone must really hate Kreia. Retcon her beliefs into simply being corrupted by a Sith Artifact, retcon her relationship to Revan. Does she even exist at this stage?
 

Wyrmlord

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This thread is the worst Codex overreaction I have seen.

How dare you destroy the lore from a videogame made 7 years ago?!
 

Stinger

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So you're saying you weren't pissed off when Bethesda pissed all over Fallout 1 and 2? Games that are far older than Kotor2?

As far as defilement to the canon of the setting goes this is just as bad if not worse. Maybe you don't care for said setting, but the outrage is hardly an overreaction.
 
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Wyrmlord said:
How dare you destroy the lore from a videogame made 7 years ago?!


Don't we take issue with most works that do the same? How many times has Bethesda gotten discussions going by rewriting chunks of their lore?
 

Haba

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Wyrmlord said:
This thread is the worst Codex overreaction I have seen.

How dare you destroy the lore from a videogame made 7 years ago?!

So we should just be a-ok whenever someone does wrong? Go fuck a dog, or a sheep or a pakistani slave.
 

laclongquan

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Star Wars material are contradicting each other all over the place, news at eleven~ Yawn~

They are overrated series with not much innate quality. Never like Star Wars.

SW KOTOR1 is a good game, mindyou. Not great, but good. Too easy sometimes, but that's okay. It's a good game *despite* being a SW fanfic sold to SW fanboy.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Stinger said:
No the Kreia/Arren Kae/Handmaiden's mother theory was a fan theory that had been circulating around that Chris Avellone kinda shrugged off with a statement like "can't comment, but nice catch". What that guy is saying is that Kreia's relationship to Revan is being shafted and we'll never know if she really was Arren Kae.

Also, Jesus someone must really hate Kreia. Retcon her beliefs into simply being corrupted by a Sith Artifact, retcon her relationship to Revan. Does she even exist at this stage?
Twenty bucks says Atris didn't become the new Darth Traya either.

But still, Revan's forgetfulness is just mindbogglingly ridiculous.
 

Roguey

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Fallout/Star Wars is a bad comparison. It's more like what happens in longrunning superhero comic books when a new writer retcons a previous writer's work. Even then it doesn't matter, because the story still exists. It's not like anyone was ever going to revisit or build off of TSL anyway, deluded pipe dreams aside.

deuxhero said:
^ Didn't the Fallout Bibles use the phrase to mean "Not intended, but very nice".
That's apophenia, the Kreia/Kae connection isn't. Having played TSL recently I thought they made it pretty damn obvious they were one and the same. It wasn't even subtle in the slightest.

Kreia: But that is my belief, since I knew Revan from long ago... as a master knows their apprentice.
Disciple: Revan had many masters. Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars...It is said that he returned to his first Master at the end of his training.
Sion: She seeks to train one as great as her first.

Of course some people delude themselves into thinking that not outright stating means there's room for ambiguity. No there isn't.
 

circ

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There is room for ambiguity, since I never saw any kind of connection just as most people didn't.

But yes, let's take a computer game, a bad one at that, seriously.
 

Wyrmlord

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Stinger said:
So you're saying you weren't pissed off when Bethesda pissed all over Fallout 1 and 2? Games that are far older than Kotor2?

As far as defilement to the canon of the setting goes this is just as bad if not worse. Maybe you don't care for said setting, but the outrage is hardly an overreaction.
I never cared so much about Fallout 3's defilement, because I never played Fallout 3, because I know Fallout 3 is Bethesda's own game that doesn't have to do anything with Fallout, and because it won't do anything to change the Fallout games.

Now, if you have to care about the defiling of the Fallout series, why not be consistent and take the anger out on Fallout 2 as well? Released only two years after Fallout, it totally destroys the Fallout franchise from top to bottom, by adding a revision of why the vaults existed and what happened to the supposedly extinct US government. But of course, the same reasons still apply - Fallout does not change, because of Fallout 2.
 

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