Blizzard announced "Classic" World of Warcraft

[Lyric Suite]

Classic wasn't anything like vanilla WoW or even private servers for that matter. It's all about boosting, maximizing efficiency, etc., so you can get back to League of Legends or whatever. Kids are different these days.

Exactly. Classic was never like vanilla, which is unfortunate. People have had years and years of theory crafting to min max the shit out of the experience.

People bad mouth retail but this is just like it, dungeon spam and do it as fast as possible, and if your gear or your metrics are not like what some bis list says it should be, then you are shit.

Private servers weren't like this though. I did every raid except Naxx on Nostalrius and while people were in fact a lot more knowledgeable about the game the experience was still a lot like vanilla, with inexperienced new guilds (i was with a guild where i had to train people to do Blackrock Depths, that was actually fun), retarded pugs, and some friendly semi-hard core guilds as well.

I don't know what Blizzard did to classic to make it worse, assuming it is worse and you guys aren't just exagerating how bad it is?

All i know is i ain't paying 15 bucks a month to find out lmao i scratched my WoW itch on private servers don't really need classic anymore and would only come back if they make it free to play.

 

[Ninjerk]

Classic wasn't anything like vanilla WoW or even private servers for that matter. It's all about boosting, maximizing efficiency, etc., so you can get back to League of Legends or whatever. Kids are different these days.

Exactly. Classic was never like vanilla, which is unfortunate. People have had years and years of theory crafting to min max the shit out of the experience.

People bad mouth retail but this is just like it, dungeon spam and do it as fast as possible, and if your gear or your metrics are not like what some bis list says it should be, then you are shit.

I don't know what Blizzard did to classic to make it worse, assuming it is worse and you guys aren't just exagerating how bad it is?

It's not really even Blizzard. People just don't get on an MMO like that and waste time like we used to and like people did on private servers (my experience wasn't Nost; I was on Emerald Dream-Fenix and Northdale-Light's Hope private servers). Remember the 2% of the population that poopsocked to endgame on a fresh? That's like 70% of the population (although I was on Gehennas EU) plus the gearscore horseshit that someone mentioned above. Zero server community, because everyone uses different tools to form their communities now.

 

[Absinthe]

Classic wasn't anything like vanilla WoW or even private servers for that matter. It's all about boosting, maximizing efficiency, etc., so you can get back to League of Legends or whatever. Kids are different these days.

Exactly. Classic was never like vanilla, which is unfortunate. People have had years and years of theory crafting to min max the shit out of the experience.

It's also that people stopped hiding optimal strategies or stunts like Manual Crowd Pummelers on Druids so that Blizzard wouldn't nerf them. Back in those days there was major fear of the nerf hammer hitting shit that wasn't even broken because incompetent patching that wrecked shit was just a fact of life (and a source of constant rage - the vanilla class forums in particular were constantly fucking pissed).

People bad mouth retail but this is just like it, dungeon spam and do it as fast as possible, and if your gear or your metrics are not like what some bis list says it should be, then you are shit.

Part of the problem is that you're never rewarded for taking your time and the other problem is that the game is too damn easy.

 

[Kem0sabe]

You all make good points. I look back at vanilla like some perfect mmo experience because it was my first "serious" mmo, and I played it religiously from the EU launch trough wotlk.

I never got that feeling again from any of the countless MMOs i tried. The closest I feel was the old republic, which I loved untill I ran out of content and EA abandoned the different class stories.

All the others never felt right and I always ended up comparing to something wow did better. People these days tend to flock to ESO and FFXIV and despite having played both extensively, their world design felt completely directed to simulating a single player RPG and they never felt like a community experience.

 

[Wilian]

Private servers weren't like this though. I did every raid except Naxx on Nostalrius and while people were in fact a lot more knowledgeable about the game the experience was still a
I don't know what Blizzard did to classic to make it worse, assuming it is worse and you guys aren't just exagerating how bad it is?

People are massively exaggerating. Turn off your ""favourite"" clickbait twitch streamer and put Trade/LFG channels on hidden tabs you only check when you actually need them and 99.9℅ of this supposed boosting/minmax culture ceases to exist.

I only ever found it to be a problem whenever it was made to be problem by myself.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Private servers weren't like this though. I did every raid except Naxx on Nostalrius and while people were in fact a lot more knowledgeable about the game the experience was still a
I don't know what Blizzard did to classic to make it worse, assuming it is worse and you guys aren't just exagerating how bad it is?

People are massively exaggerating. Turn off your ""favourite"" clickbait twitch streamer and put Trade/LFG channels on hidden tabs you only check when you actually need them and 99.9℅ of this supposed boosting/minmax culture ceases to exist.

I only ever found it to be a problem whenever it was made to be problem by myself.

99% pf the groups for anyone leveling a pre 60 character are "WTS Boost". A lot of the groups for those leveling in hellfire are looking for either a spell or melee cleave group to rush through the instance, a lot of classes are outright rejected like dps druids... and this is for leveling instances... imagine what it will be like once people start endgame.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Mmmh, cats are subpar in instances. They only really become viable as dps in raids, and usually you only need one for that too.

That was true on nostalrius also which is why i tanked all the instances with my druid, which was fun in itself. I even tanked Upper Blackrock Spire a few times, with a fury warrior switching to tank gear to help out on the Rend fight.

The problem with cats outside of raids is that you don't have a lot of mana to sustain continuous power shifting. Now it doesn't mean they are completely useless but the issue is that most instances have a ton of out of work rogues waiting in line so why pick a cat. This was true for vanilla also. This was always the lot of hybrid classes. You had to learn to work with it, which was one of the charms of vanilla in the first place (in vanilla i had a protection paladin and i had to work hard to convince people to take me along in late game instances. Sometimes i would get a spot only if another tank didn't show up).

Or you can go TBC and onward when hybrid classes became just primary classes with a different flavor. Pick your poison. I personally prefer vanilla. The fact everybody looked down on hybridid classes allowed for a unique community experience as certain classes shared their own unique community where everybody just looked out for each other. Druids were like that for instance. On Nostalrius i managed to get on a quest with two other druids to forge the Smoking Heart of the Mountain. We catted our way through Blackrock Depths and it was one of the coolest things i ever did in WoW.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Mmmh, cats are subpar in instances. They only really become viable as dps in raids, and usually you only need one for that too.

That was true on nostalrius also which is why i tanked all the instances with my druid, which was fun in itself. I even tanked Upper Blackrock Spire a few times, with a fury warrior switching to tank gear to help out on the Rend fight.

The problem with cats outside of raids is that you don't have a lot of mana to sustain continuous power shifting. Now it doesn't mean they are completely useless but the issue is that most instances have a ton of out of work rogues waiting in line so why pick a cat. This was true for vanilla also. This was always the lot of hybrid classes. You had to learn to work with it, which was one of the charms of vanilla in the first place (in vanilla i had a protection paladin and i had to work hard to convince people to take me along in late game instances. Sometimes i would get a spot only if another tank didn't show up).

Or you can go TBC and onward when hybrid classes became just primary classes with a different flavor. Pick your poison. I personally prefer vanilla. The fact everybody looked down on hybridid classes allowed for a unique community experience as certain classes shared their own unique community where everybody just looked out for each other. Druids were like that for instance. On Nostalrius i managed to get on a quest with two other druids to forge the Smoking Heart of the Mountain. We catted our way through Blackrock Depths and it was one of the coolest things i ever did in WoW.

In TBC dungeon groups, especially the heroic versions, i would ideally take a Hunter/Mage/rogue/shadow priest as dps for their CC, a shaman for their totems and group buffs as DPS or Healer. CC is a big part of TBC dungeons, especially because trash is often more problematic than the bosses themselves.

 

[Absinthe]

Honestly partying as a tank is usually a good idea, since that tends to be the role that is highest in demand. It's a stunt you can also pull as a Shaman or Paladin, although you need to get good at managing your mana (and preferably wear a lot of int gear so you don't have constant drinking breaks). Shaman tanking can get treated as a more dubious prospect than Paladin tanking though, especially before you have mail armor, but you do have threat generation options (Rockbiter and Earth Shock mostly, also reflective damage from Lightning Shield) and shields do good work mitigating damage.

If you're going out of your way, Warlock tanking is also very viable as SL spec but that requires you to be level 40 and it's very meme tier. Searing Pain (or Hellfire, for AoE tanking) makes holding aggro easy though and Life Tap means you don't really need drinking breaks. With a second healer a regular Warlock's Voidwalker pet can off-tank adds just fine on its own though. Shadow Priest tanking on the other hand has more issues sustaining threat. Not sure about Hunter tanking. I reckon it's doable, but the Hunter has no direct means to generate extra threat unless it's dualwielding weapons with high threat procs or just doing a lot of damage somehow, and it doesn't have the mitigation a shield provides either, but at least it has high dodge.

 

[Wilian]

99% pf the groups for anyone leveling a pre 60 character are "WTS Boost".

Yes, if you look at LFG channel which is the server wide boost trading chat. This can be solved by hiding it as I said and suddenly it's almoust as if boosters did not even exist. On any of the 5-6 servers I play/played in there's zero boost selling on any other channels but those two. Perhaps you found that one server where it happens across all channels: Protip, best way to find groups is in regional chat anyway because those are bustling with people yet your LFG messages do not fall behind world-wide spam.

A lot of the groups for those leveling in hellfire are looking for either a spell or melee cleave group to rush through the instance, a lot of classes are outright rejected like dps druids...

Welcome to TBC, the expansion that literally made Blizzard homogenize everything. The expansion where only very specific classes were favoured for heroics. Where in raids they rotate less perfoming classes outside for buffs while better performing ones are taken in after buffing. You play feral druid, a class/spec that has practically no function outside of being raid buffer. In expansion that grew infamous for asisine levels of class stacking and optimization. Now, coming from Classic, of course when people are trying to race to 70 they want to optimize everything so most of public group findings do seek things that help them most so they don't feel left out. Hint; This has always been the case, it just started now earliel because the race is part of meta for many. But you should find peace, soon enough things stabilize and there won't be such overflow of T3 players so even you will be accepted in.

and this is for leveling instances... imagine what it will be like once people start endgame.

I don't have to imagine, I know how it is at end game, I play a Retri Paladin and played back then, the class that only got to heroics through social contacts because no pug would ever take a retri for same reason no pug would take feral druid; useless in greater context.

Now, there is easy solution in all this. As I mentioned I play Ret Paladin, I get overlooked primarily for same reasons as you are being but I combat this by making my own groups. I've not had to wait full group forming for more than 15 minutes. It's like magic when one ceases to expect to be taken in and instead puts in the effort to make it happen by themselves.

 

[Absinthe]

Yeah making your own groups beats LFG easily, especially when you are playing an offbeat spec/role.

But man, Paladins suck in WoW for anything other than buffing, dispelling, and healing. They're more healer than the Priest class is.

 

[janior]

ret is actually trash in vanilla, worse than dps druid

 

[Absinthe]

The DPS is even worse than enhance shaman and probably melee hunter too. That's a lot of meme specs that outperform the holy warrior class at warrior activities.

At least it does better DPS than Firestone Warlock, which is the ultimate melee meme build, but depending on the DoTs and instant casts even that might not be the case.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Prot paladins are very nice in this expansion tho. The ability to aoe tank is unrivaled by any of class I think.

I'm still leveling my shaman, so haven't reach the Outland grouping scene, but I imagine tanks are still highly desired.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

But man, Paladins suck in WoW for anything other than buffing, dispelling, and healing. They're more healer than the Priest class is.

designers hated hybrids

 

[Wilian]

Yeah making your own groups beats LFG easily, especially when you are playing an offbeat spec/role.

But man, Paladins suck in WoW for anything other than buffing, dispelling, and healing. They're more healer than the Priest class is.

This might be true for pre-TBC, hell even 2.1 to 2.3 due to lack of threat reduction talents but we are now in TBC. 2.4 Paladin, which is the version Blizzard uses is very viable. They not only provide mandatory raid buffs but also can break the 'famed' 3k DPS barrier against Brutallus and were present in many world first Sunwell Plateu kills where they optimized the kills to the t. They're shit for dungeons though because they neither provide CC nor sustainable AoE.

due to lack of threat reduction talents

To emphasise this, this was the first truly massive effort by Paladin community to fight back mistreatment of the class from it's original vision, which is 2 handed holy warrior type. I still remember how all WoW related forums were unreadable because everywhere you went during 2.4 PTR, when Blizzard had promised to address Paladin issues failed to do so (issue being threat), you could only see hundreds to thousands of posts and threads posting one simple phrase "Thread reduction?"

I partook in that campaign and got banned from forums for partaking in "group effort spam" then Blizzard added it. 2.4 is when Ret paladin is at it's peak. Optimal with it's own DPS when played well (seal twisting), provides strong buffs to raid and strong support.

I'm one of the rare people who dislike WotLK ret because they turned this class that required actual timing and skill to play viably and even optimally to a class that just facerolls.

 

[Absinthe]

Paladins can "CC" in dungeons in the sense of one-man OTing two or more mobs and chain self-healing with his uninterruptible heals as he OTs them with his plate armor. Paladin AoE is pretty much garbage unless they're swinging Ravagers though, but Burning Crusade introduces the ridiculous level down-scaling mechanics that make the proc chance drop at 70. It's still worth using a Ravager for AoE dps though.

How does the BoSalv bot have threat generation issues? How bad is your tank for that to be a concern?

 

[Wilian]

Paladins can "CC" in dungeons in the sense of one-man OTing two or more mobs

Not in TBC where heroic mobs kill anything but tank in 1 or 2 hits

 

[Absinthe]

Can't you just equip a tanking set?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

yea but then you have to deal with a person who plays a ret paladin and nobody wants to do that

 

[Absinthe]

You don't need to be ret paladin to OT and self-heal as a CC solution when the dungeon calls for it. You just need a spare tanking set and maybe some self-buffs that are good for it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You don't need to be ret paladin to OT and self-heal as a CC solution when the dungeon calls for it. You just need a spare tanking set and maybe some self-buffs that are good for it.

nobody wants to go through all this effort, just reroll a mage or go play a better game

 

[Kem0sabe]

Warlocks with their seduce and banish/enslave

Mages with sheep

Rogues with sap

Hunters with frost trap

Priests with mind control

All these are much much better than other dps classes, in heroics that is. Normal versions of dungeons are easy enough to do with any group comp.

 

[Absinthe]

Obviously you should play a better game. That's a given. I just listed an option that can round out a Paladin's capabilities a bit.

 

[Cromwell]

Rogues with sap

you would have to skill improved sap for that and you cant easily reapply the CC.