From Software Bloodborne - how good is this game?

[TheHeroOfTime]

To add insult to injury, the game is devoid of any meaningful tutorial. It’s trial by fire. Which maybe worked when I was 8 years old and had tons of time, but the game seems to delight in alienating players new to the series.

I’m sure the game “makes sense” and is enjoyable to Dark Souls veterans. That’s awesome. Not every game should be for everyone. But the game does an unbelievably bad job at introducing new players to the core concepts of the game. It’s gaming caviar – delightful to some but an acquired taste for the majority of individuals.

At the start of the game, there is a lot of premade messages on the floor which explains you the controls of the game. I think that is enough to start playing, you will learn the rest of mechanics slowly by conversations, descriptions of items and using them. The first werewolf will kill you, because that must happen (As with Vanguard demon and Asylum demon from DS games, but you can kill it if you have experience playing).

This is a game to everyone who loves old school games, and experience in other Souls games is not needed. Just keep playing, i'm sure you'll like the game. And yes, the load times are shit, thankfully From software has announced a patch to improve that aspect a lot.

 

[polo]

I asume you never played Demon Souls or Dark souls amirite?
I didn't read a single review, but i can't help but think that most of them must at least make a reference to BB predecessors.

I’ve been an avid gamer for 25 years, and Bloodborne was one of two games I purchased and immediately sold/returned (the other being Mortal Kombat: Mythologies featuring Sub Zero). As a non-Dark Souls player but someone who was intrigued by the game being labeled an action RPG that received critical acclaim, I immediately sought out the game and was excited.

Let me start off by saying that the game gets some things right. Graphically it’s impressive. The soundtrack (what I experienced of it) is incredible, as well. That’s where the praise ends for me.

I knew the game was hard going in. I’ve played hard games. Most hard games have a system in place where if failure is anticipated, a checkpoint is kindly placed nearby. This way you don’t have to replay 15 minutes of old content in order to (attempt to) experience something new. Bloodborne delights in having you fail, suffer through a 1 minute load screen, and then replay 5-10 minutes of content and kill respawned enemies to get the chance to see new content. Often times you’re forced to do this after being ambushed by a mob. The supposedly lesson is to remember next time that the mob is there -or- the enemy will do “that attack” after that cue. This isn’t fun. It’s learning to swim by drowning.

To add insult to injury, the game is devoid of any meaningful tutorial. It’s trial by fire. Which maybe worked when I was 8 years old and had tons of time, but the game seems to delight in alienating players new to the series.

I’m sure the game “makes sense” and is enjoyable to Dark Souls veterans. That’s awesome. Not every game should be for everyone. But the game does an unbelievably bad job at introducing new players to the core concepts of the game. It’s gaming caviar – delightful to some but an acquired taste for the majority of individuals.

Yeah well, even tho the name does not show you this, this is a SOULS game.
I understand it can be overwhelming if you are a new player, also souls games are not for everyone. Clearly it was not for you, that is all.
If it was for you, like Dark Souls and Demon souls were for me, you would have enjoyed one of the best gaming experinces ever. These games not only require a decent amount of skill, they also have no bioware cutscenes, nor do they hit you with walls of texts. Story, lore, general knowledge about the game is achieved by looking into the endless details these games have, in a 5 line conversation, in items descriptions, in the geography of the world, etc.
Its a shame the mecahincs are not for everyone, couse lots of people are missing A LOT because of it.
I cant complain tho, i love the mecahincs.

Now, someone buy me a PS4.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Now, someone buy me a PS4.

+1. Those things cost 1300 obamadollars here.

 

[polo]

Now, someone buy me a PS4.

+1. Those things cost 1300 obamadollars here.

Bitch please, Argentine here.

 

[Phage]

I asume you never played Demon Souls or Dark souls amirite?
I didn't read a single review, but i can't help but think that most of them must at least make a reference to BB predecessors.

I’ve been an avid gamer for 25 years, and Bloodborne was one of two games I purchased and immediately sold/returned (the other being Mortal Kombat: Mythologies featuring Sub Zero). As a non-Dark Souls player but someone who was intrigued by the game being labeled an action RPG that received critical acclaim, I immediately sought out the game and was excited.

Let me start off by saying that the game gets some things right. Graphically it’s impressive. The soundtrack (what I experienced of it) is incredible, as well. That’s where the praise ends for me.

I knew the game was hard going in. I’ve played hard games. Most hard games have a system in place where if failure is anticipated, a checkpoint is kindly placed nearby. This way you don’t have to replay 15 minutes of old content in order to (attempt to) experience something new. Bloodborne delights in having you fail, suffer through a 1 minute load screen, and then replay 5-10 minutes of content and kill respawned enemies to get the chance to see new content. Often times you’re forced to do this after being ambushed by a mob. The supposedly lesson is to remember next time that the mob is there -or- the enemy will do “that attack” after that cue. This isn’t fun. It’s learning to swim by drowning.

To add insult to injury, the game is devoid of any meaningful tutorial. It’s trial by fire. Which maybe worked when I was 8 years old and had tons of time, but the game seems to delight in alienating players new to the series.

I’m sure the game “makes sense” and is enjoyable to Dark Souls veterans. That’s awesome. Not every game should be for everyone. But the game does an unbelievably bad job at introducing new players to the core concepts of the game. It’s gaming caviar – delightful to some but an acquired taste for the majority of individuals.

 

[DragoFireheart]

The first werewolf will kill you, because that must happen (As with Vanguard demon and Asylum demon from DS games, but you can kill it if you have experience playing).

 

[Phage]

I meant shield mostly. In the Souls games, my feeling is if you have to start rolling to stay alive then something's not as it should be.

This really isn't the game for you. Babby mode shield crutching has been completely removed, as has gamebreaking magic, and the game is far superior as a result. Things can still be cheesed with certain ranged weapons, but you can't really get all the pieces together to pull it off until midgame. I just wish they'd remove co-op to deliver the death knell to the infants.

How about BB > Demon's Souls?

Yeah, I'd agree.

I knew the game was hard going in. I’ve played hard games. Most hard games have a system in place where if failure is anticipated, a checkpoint is kindly placed nearby. This way you don’t have to replay 15 minutes of old content in order to (attempt to) experience something new.

Good thing you rarely lose actual 15 minutes of progress if you're intelligent. Seriously, as long as you have the basic capacity to learn you can plow through old areas much more quickly. Additionally, if you're attentive, you will constantly be opening up new shortcuts to get back to where you were faster.

Bloodborne delights in having you fail, suffer through a 1 minute load screen, and then replay 5-10 minutes of content and kill respawned enemies to get the chance to see new content.

Bloodborne doesn't delight in anything. It's indifferent. It doesn't have emotions. It's a fucking game. Anyways, it has been stated numerous times the loading screens are one of this game's very very few flaws, yes. Killing those respawned enemies should be allowing you to accumulate blood echos (experience points) and level up since, we're presuming, that you're intelligent enough to learn from your last go-through and retrieved them. You are always progressing unless you are braindead.

Often times you’re forced to do this after being ambushed by a mob. The supposedly lesson is to remember next time that the mob is there -or- the enemy will do “that attack” after that cue. This isn’t fun. It’s learning to swim by drowning.

Nah. Nice try kiddo. The real lesson is slow the fuck down when exploring a new area. Every single ambush in the game can be anticipated to various degrees ahead of time. There wasn't a single sneak attack that I couldn't have prevented by simply slowing down and backing off as the enemy charged at me.

To add insult to injury, the game is devoid of any meaningful tutorial. It’s trial by fire. Which maybe worked when I was 8 years old and had tons of time, but the game seems to delight in alienating players new to the series.

Nah, once again, nice try. The notes on the ground in the hub giving you the controls is more than enough tutorial to succeed in the game. Tutorials are fucking cancer, I'm really flaggergasted that you'd want them in a game.

I’m sure the game “makes sense” and is enjoyable to Dark Souls veterans. That’s awesome. Not every game should be for everyone. But the game does an unbelievably bad job at introducing new players to the core concepts of the game. It’s gaming caviar – delightful to some but an acquired taste for the majority of individuals.

This "makes sense" to anyone with the brain capacity to learn and enjoy triumphing over challenges instead of being spoonfed endorphins and receiving a round of applause for doing nothing.

 

[Phage]

The first werewolf will kill you, because that must happen (As with Vanguard demon and Asylum demon from DS games, but you can kill it if you have experience playing).

Never underestimate the power of people with mental handicaps.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

The first werewolf will kill you, because that must happen (As with Vanguard demon and Asylum demon from DS games, but you can kill it if you have experience playing).

I change that must for a should

 

[Phage]

The first werewolf will kill you, because that must happen (As with Vanguard demon and Asylum demon from DS games, but you can kill it if you have experience playing).

I change that must for a should

I guess a beginner should try to get to the dream ASAP for a weapon, but, everyone else should just be running past it and beelining for the first lantern. (or, be a real pro and beeline for the saw spear in the sewer )

 

[DragoFireheart]

The first werewolf will kill you, because that must happen (As with Vanguard demon and Asylum demon from DS games, but you can kill it if you have experience playing).

I change that must for a should

I guess a beginner should try to get to the dream ASAP for a weapon, but, everyone else should just be running past it and beelining for the first lantern. (or, be a real pro and beeline for the saw spear in the sewer )

I killed it without a weapon the other day.

It drops a blood shard if you kill it without dying.

Good thing you rarely lose actual 15 minutes of progress if you're intelligent. Seriously, as long as you have the basic capacity to learn you can plow through old areas much more quickly. Additionally, if you're attentive, you will constantly be opening up new shortcuts to get back to where you were faster.

I re-fought BSB yesterday. Destroyed him with parries and only got hit a couple times. It's so satisfying to conquer things you struggled with the first time.

Father G also seemed pitifully slow compared to the first time I fought him.

 

[nomask7]

This really isn't the game for you. Babby mode shield crutching has been completely removed,

I was talking about the Souls games. I didn't say I required this game to be the same as those. What I was saying is that if you create a game where a tank/shield character seems like a valid build, then you should obviously make it a valid build in bosses as well. I thought that Moonlight Butterfly was an exception, but I've been corrected.

Anyway, this thread has served its purpose as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy Bloodborne if they manage to shorten the loading times with a patch (apparently you need to go through a loading screen every time you want the monsters to respawn). Wikipedia says they're working on a patch to shorten loading times so that's at least something.

Thanks to those who have contributed.

 

[Urbanolo]

I rate it DS2>BB>DS1 for now (yes you got it right). I'm just around the 3rd boss and it's fun, but kind of dumbed down and regressed when it comes to the mechanics. It seems to be also much easier than the Souls games. From what I've heard PvP in Bloodborne sucks donkey's cock though, which is very unfortunate.

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

From what I've seen... Intricate level design is pretty much the only thing I'm looking forward to at this point. No amount of atmosphere or artfaggotry is going to excuse bare-bones gameplay.

 

[Talby]

I killed the first werewolf with my fists and it dropped three blood vials. Werewolves always drop either that or a blood shard, IIRC. So no special reward for beating it without dying.

Bloodborne is great, though. Not sure if it's better than Dark Souls, but it's close, and definitely better than DS2 or Demon's Souls, though that's not a slight against either game - all the Souls games are a great and worth playing.

 

[Ayreos]

Thread summary:

"Is the game good?"
"The game is great!"
"Great? The game is annoyingly hard!"
"GIT GUD KIDDO!"

Seeing these topics turn out exactly the same over and over is really amusing. The e-peen waving and butthurt get obscene in combination, though!

Think of it, how can beating an AI in a mass-marketed game be hard? The franchise is MADE for a wide audience. It is carefully beta-tested to have just the right difficulty to allow a large percentile to beat the game. It's the basics of game development.

The "novelty" of the Souls series' gameplay is the use of player learning as a requisite for advancement (aka frequent deaths). That is entirely novel compared to the resource management of classic dungeon crawlers or the pure dexterity skills of action games like Devil May Cry, for instance, where death is the ultimate penalty.

I think speaking of "difficulty" is therefore entirely wrong. Anyone who can play through your average action game can play through the Souls games. The players are "tricked" into believing the game is difficult through their innate expectation that death is something avoidable or minimizable. It is not, really. Some people might die more than others, but the progress in the game follows regardless, and at a regular pace.
Because of this the butthurt and e-peen waving reactions are not explaining the new game properly, which is the point of this thread.

Bloodborne does continue the innovative gameplay focus of the series. There is no reason to skip it for veterans. Few action games come remotely close to actually allowing the player to develop skill, and use that skill as a pre-requisite to progress in the game efficiently. Usually player skill and learning are rewarded by an enhanced score and little else.
As a plus, the game has intriguing lore and exploration.

My only gripe is that i find the elaborate level design sometimes excessive. I'd rather the game focused entirely on posing new challenges to the player through mob actions instead of environments. I'd really rather learn AI patterns and "flavors" instead of mob positionings and traps, which can cause cheap deaths. I think Bloodborne did a small step forward in that direction, compared to previous games.

That said, i am not a fan of the series, as i am not a fan of action games. If you never enjoyed an action game, there is a good chance the learn-by-dying mechanics will just annoy you long before the lore and reward involve you. On the other side, if you're fine with action gameplay, you shouldn't miss it.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The players are "tricked" into believing the game is difficult through their innate expectation that death is something avoidable or minimizable. It is not, really.

WRONG

GIT GUD, KIDDO

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

It's a stripped down and less difficult Souls game. Customization and upgrading has been heavily streamlined and opportunities for differing play styles have been all but removed entirely. The core playing experience is still as solid as ever though. Level design, world, combat, atmosphere, boss fights, storytelling, all that stuff varies between being on par with or better than it was in past entries. So I dunno, I imagine a lot of Souls fans will be disgusted by the streamlining and accessibility, but I think it's a worthwhile experience.

 

[nomask7]

Isn't the definition of difficult that it requires improving a skill before you can do it well? Like if you say Liszt's etudes are difficult to play on the piano, you're merely saying you have to have practiced a lot since an early age to be able to play them well?

I also think you're underestimating the importance of gear in the Souls games if you're a shield/tank character (a playstyle I recommend if you like classical dungeon crawling more than action games).

 

[Phage]

It's a stripped down and less difficult Souls game. Customization and upgrading has been heavily streamlined and opportunities for differing play styles have been all but removed entirely. The core playing experience is still as solid as ever though. Level design, world, combat, atmosphere, boss fights, storytelling, all that stuff varies between being on par with or better than it was in past entries. So I dunno, I imagine a lot of Souls fans will be disgusted by the streamlining and accessibility, but I think it's a worthwhile experience.

I disagree that it's more accessible, at least, if by accessible, you mean to newcomers. I genuinely believe Dark Souls is the most accessible of the series - that game has powerful estus flasks that refresh on death/bonfire. In bloodborne, the new player experience often devolves into early game vial farming. Even as a souls vet I ended up having to farm vials during my first attempts versus Blood Starved Beast and I went on the platinum the game. As a result of the player's dwindling resources, death is more punishing, making it more difficult to initially start the game - I mean, hell, CK couldn't get to the first boss it seems before he gave up. At least in Dark Souls your constant stream of Estus lets you consistently progress.

I also don't think it's less difficult than the souls games. You are entering this with 2-3 games worth of experience, so your view is tinted. I will say that this game lacks a truly challenging mid-game boss like O+S though.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

I found Bloodborne's healing system to be the most forgiving of the bunch as I never ran into the problem of not having enough of them. Even if I were to I could have just traveled back to the HUB area and stocked up again as they're fairly cheap. And there's the whole offensive healing thing too which further made the game easy sailing. You're right, I've had a lot of experience with the other Souls games but I played those with a defensive sword and shield approach. Never aggressively offensive which is what Bloodborne sort of requires. I adjusted rapidly, though.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Bloodborne's healing system is more forgiving but it's enemies are not. It's very easy to be healing and then get "instantly killed" if you time it poorly. Many of the Bloodborne bosses/enemies are also much more challenging than the average souls boss.

Darkbeast Paarl, which you can run into after 3 bosses, is a much more aggressive version of Sif.
Final boss puts any souls final boss to shame and is on par with Fume Knight and Sir Alonne.
Cleric Beast or Father Guacamole laughs at Last Giant / Phalanx / Taurus Demon / Dragon Rider.
Even the Witches of Hemwick, arguably the easiest Bloodborne boss, aren't as easy as Pinwheel.
Parries, while easier, are limited. Backstabs are completely changed, removing the "strafe until I backstab that black knight" strategy.
SACK MEN.
Soul Arrow spam, shields that aren't a joke, bows, and heavy armor are completely gone. Magic still exists but it's not gonna be like the god damn Royal from Demon's Souls.
Rom.
Chalice Dungeons.

If I were going to start a souls newbie I'd choose Dark Souls. The enemies aren't as fast, heavy armor is arguably at its best, magic spam is viable, and the checkpoints are shorter compared to bloodborne.

 

[Phage]

For the little circlejerk present here of people claiming that you can't avoid death in souls games...

DarkSidePhyl, who DragoFireheart is familiar with, a streamer notorious for being fucking awful at games beat Cleric Beast with only 9 deaths total (from the game's start) playing the game blind on its launch. He played extremely slowly and cautiously, and while he was technically still fucking awful at every encounter, he managed to get through with a bit of thought. Kind of puts CK's rant into perspective

 

[DragoFireheart]

Only nine deaths from character creation to Cleric Beast?

I think I died more than that, lol. It's funny because this is the same DSP that randomly struggles with simple controls.

I'm honestly surprised he made it that far.

 

[Phage]

If I were going to start a souls newbie I'd choose Dark Souls. The enemies aren't as fast, heavy armor is arguably at its best, magic spam is viable, and the checkpoints are shorter compared to bloodborne.

I actually think Demon's Souls is the easiest game of the group, BUT I agree that Dark Souls is probably the best place to start simply due to the god-tier estus healing system. Still can't figure out why they fucked with the nearly perfect formula they had with DS1's estus. The only time it got out of whack was if someone rushed to pinwheel and got the rite of kindling really early on - and frankly, that requires a fair amount of metagaming beforehand to realistically pull off.