Bloodlines Site Updated

[Seven]

http://www.vampirebloodlines.com/

Yup, it's been updated. BTW, why's everyone so hostile to this game. I think it look's sexy (and I'm not referring to the jiggling boobs). The engine looks smooth, and it should have a good mix of action and RPG elements. Any one who's an RPG purist will probably complain, but I don't think this game is meant to be a pure RPG.

 

[Rhombus]

The only problems I have with this game are these:

1. I have to wait (probably) 1 year until it's released.
2. I have to upgrade my computer to be able to play it.

Given (2), nr (1) isn't all that bad.. it gives me time to save up money for the upgrades... but still.. I want it now.

I think it will be a really good game. I love the setting, and from what I've read and heard they will stay pretty true to the major points in the ruleset...

Why wouldn't it be a pure RPG? Because it uses a FPS engine?


Edit: and sorry for grave digging... I came to start a topic about bloodlines, and I thought I'd bump this one instead..

 

[HanoverF]

I'm not hostile, but my interest in Vampire: The Gothening is around that of watching paint dry. And marrying RPG and FPS is a slippery slope and one poor design decision and it all goes downhill fast.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I'm not hostile, but my interest in Vampire: The Gothening is around that of watching paint dry. And marrying RPG and FPS is a slippery slope and one poor design decision and it all goes downhill fast.

*cough*Morrowind*cough*

 

[Spazmo]

Yes, but let's look at Morrowind's failings first.

1. Dialog: There was none. We already know, however, that Bloodlines will have a classical dialog tree system, so there you have it.
2. Combat: Click click click, swing swing swing. Bloodlines, however, will have lots of firearms in it, and it's hard to mess up good 'ol fashioned FPS gunplay.
3. General lack of point: Vampire is set in a smaller, tighter world than Morrowind was, so it'll surely be far more focused than the often aimless Morrowind.

Besides that, hey, it's Troika.

 

[Rhombus]

I thought Morrowind was one hell of a game. It's only flaw was that it was the "Jack of all Trades, master of none" so to speak... Deus Ex was a good FP-RPG too.

Why wouldn't a RPG work using an FPS engine?... logically, first person view should be it when it comes to rpgs, as it is the closest to you really being the character you play.. instead of ordering pieces on a game board around... and if they do it good, I don't see any problems in having the combat go like a FPS game.. the only problem I see is that the success might depend more on the mouse-skill of the player instead of the characters skills. Troika has stated though that that won't be the case for Bloodlines, guess we will see how it turns out.

 

[Azael]

Besides that, hey, it's Troika.

Well, so far they have two flawed, but enjoyable, games to their record.

 

[Seven]

Besides that, hey, it's Troika.

Well, so far they have two flawed, but enjoyable, games to their record.

Yea, tell me about. I'm more than a little disturbed by thier track record (in terms of game balance and bugs) thus far. But hey, they gotta pay the rent.

 

[Rhombus]

Troika has put out atleast one (Arcanum) of the best crpgs lately... there aren't many other companies with better recent track record.

 

[Voss]

They do need to work on their polishing though. Whatever their plans and schedules are, its clear that they need to allot an extra month (beyond what they think they need) to QA, bug fixing and testing for all future products. It would save a lot of grief.

 

[Whipporowill]

From what it seems Activision is a publisher a lot more interested in feedback and PR, apart from certain other companies that shall not be named...

... and not to forget, they're using Source , the HL2 engine, and I believe Valve has a say there. Less likely for the game to go out the door halfassed.

Then if the game is a good RPG or not, that remains to be seen. But I'm actually getting more interested...

And for the marriage of RPG and FPS. Gothic I & II, anyone?

 

[Azael]

They do need to work on their polishing though. Whatever their plans and schedules are, its clear that they need to allot an extra month (beyond what they think they need) to QA, bug fixing and testing for all future products. It would save a lot of grief.

Very true, although I'd say that some of the flaws in both of the games were beyond that. Some of them were bad design, plain and simple, which is more worrying.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Why wouldn't a RPG work using an FPS engine?... logically, first person view should be it when it comes to rpgs, as it is the closest to you really being the character you play.. instead of ordering pieces on a game board around... and if they do it good, I don't see any problems in having the combat go like a FPS game.. the only problem I see is that the success might depend more on the mouse-skill of the player instead of the characters skills. Troika has stated though that that won't be the case for Bloodlines, guess we will see how it turns out.

There's nothing logical about saying a CRPG works better in first person mode. That's like claiming LARPS is better than PnP because you directly play your character with your body. While this may sound nifty, it just boils down to playing dress up and smacking some guy wearing pillows with a bunch of padded sticks.

The same thing holds true for first persion shooter style "RPGs". You either devalue you stats of the character by allowing the player direct control over the dexterity of the avatar, or you add an extra layer of problems by having the player have to use his manual dexterity and have it still possible to fail a roll based on his character stats. For example, with firing a gun, you have to aim the gun for the character directly, fire, and you can still miss - all in real time with things hopping around just like a typical first person shooter.

That means you can build your character to be the ultimate trickshot gun fighter, but if you suck at first person shooters - your uber-gunslinger character won't be able to hit the broad side of a barn no matter how you stacked his stats and skills to favor shooting.

This also cuts both ways, as you can mess up your character build, and have m4d FPS sk1llz and still not hit anything.

Not having rolls also sucks, because that means you really don't need that many statistics because you're controlling the dodging, the aiming, and so forth. You have the skills, not the character, which is just like your ability to swing a padded stick in LARPS.

So, basically, it's only logical if you don't bother thinking about it.

 

[HanoverF]

I'd hardly call Morrowind a marriage of RPG and FPS, just a RPG with First Person Perspective, No comment on Deus Ecch

How long does Troika have for this game? Is the release date 3/14/04 correct? That would mean it gets out before Half-Life 2, would Vavle allow that?

How are Vampires killed in White Wolfs rules?

 

[Voss]

Sunlight, fire, 'aggravated damage' - basically anything supernatural or absurdly damaging (werewolf claws, acid, certain spells). I think beheading, off the top of my head, but not 100% positive on that.

Oh, in the most recent edition guns do half damage to the undead. (and its bashing rather than lethal, though that doesn't mean much to vamps. Basically bashing is a lot of unarmed damage. A human will heal bashing damage in a few weeks/days, or hours if its light, while the same level of lethal damage will put a human in a hospital for months/weeks.)

Stakes just paralyze until they're removed. If they have friends, its not too big a deal, but alone they'd better hope that they aren't outside with sunrise coming.

... I'd call Morrowind an adventure game with a first person perspecitve. And Deus Ex just another shooter.

As for Valve. It depends on the contracts involved... they might have a 'wait for us' clause, but I'm not sure how that would work or even if its possible

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I thought Morrowind was one hell of a game. It's only flaw was that it was the "Jack of all Trades, master of none" so to speak... Deus Ex was a good FP-RPG too.

Why wouldn't a RPG work using an FPS engine?... logically, first person view should be it when it comes to rpgs, as it is the closest to you really being the character you play.. instead of ordering pieces on a game board around... and if they do it good, I don't see any problems in having the combat go like a FPS game.. the only problem I see is that the success might depend more on the mouse-skill of the player instead of the characters skills. Troika has stated though that that won't be the case for Bloodlines, guess we will see how it turns out.

The only thing that saved Morrowind was the fact that they allowed people to add their own content. That's been the only thing that has kept me still playing the game. There are some other decent FPS/RPGs out there though. Deus-Ex was good, although I did wish it could have had a bit more variety other than different ways you could do some of the missions. System Shock 2 was another good one, but again, it could have been better in the actual RP department. I still love the game to death though. And then you have the first two games in the Elder Scrolls series, Arena and Daggerfall. Classics that melded the two genres quite well.

EDIT: Gah! I can't believe I forgot the Ultima Underground games. Stupid, stupid stupid!

 

[Rayt]

I've been wondering; wouldn't the recent theft of the HL2 source code jeopardize the multiplayer part of this game? I have a suspection that nasty business will have some effect on the release date.

 

[Rhombus]

That means you can build your character to be the ultimate trickshot gun fighter, but if you suck at first person shooters...

This also cuts both ways, as you can mess up your character build, and have m4d FPS sk1llz and still not hit anything.

So, basically, it's only logical if you don't bother thinking about it.

Well, as I said, that's the one problem I can see with it.. but that's also the only real problem I see with it.. other than that I think the FP perspecitve can add some to the game..

I've been wondering; wouldn't the recent theft of the HL2 source code jeopardize the multiplayer part of this game? I have a suspection that nasty business will have some effect on the release date.

I think it's been said that they can't release it until HL2 has been out some month(s) or so.. and I've also heard that the theft has pushed HL2 release date some... so it does affect Bloodlines too.

 

[Visceris]

I am relatively excited about this game. I am interested to see if they could do better than the last Vampire game.

 

[asshatnewguy]

I expect it to destroy VtM:Redemption at least if Troika manages to avoid yet another premature buggy release.

I actually enjoyed VtM:Redemption alot, the characters and story I liked, the game itself is way to damn simple and linear to replay tho.

Also I hate that fucking site. I don't see how the could have made it less informative and functional if the tried.

 

[Megatron]

The same thing holds true for first persion shooter style "RPGs". You either devalue you stats of the character by allowing the player direct control over the dexterity of the avatar, or you add an extra layer of problems by having the player have to use his manual dexterity and have it still possible to fail a roll based on his character stats. For example, with firing a gun, you have to aim the gun for the character directly, fire, and you can still miss - all in real time with things hopping around just like a typical first person shooter.

I suppose they could add auto-aim and time slowing down while firing a gun so you'd have to be pretty bad at shooting to not hit anything, but why would a person who's bad a fps choose a shooting character anyway? It'd be like a person with a short-attention span and bad at english choosing a diplomatic char mabye.

But the point of role-playing is so you can play the role I suppose, and auto-aim would suck a bit so this post was pointless?

 

[asshatnewguy]

I was wondering how gun fighting might work and particularly how the game discipline of Celerity worked.

The Celerity discipline is esentially superhuman speed and is very powerfull and usually takes some house rules to keep it undercontrol compared to less exploitable disciplines.

Maybe either 2 or 3 'dots' in firearms could be the baseline to use your own ability and more or less will adjust your accuracy eitherway.

I wonder if celerity will either speed the PC or slow the game. I'd perfer it to speed the PC.

 

[Taoreich]

IIRC, Troika has gone on record as saying that the gun-fighting aspects will be more dependant upon the in-game "skills" of the character as opposed to the "mouse twitch skills" of the player. This mitigates some of St P's concerns on paper, though I expect the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

IIRC, Troika has gone on record as saying that the gun-fighting aspects will be more dependant upon the in-game "skills" of the character as opposed to the "mouse twitch skills" of the player.

Same orientation as Deus Ex and other RPGs with a first person view.

 

[Psilon]

Translation: Gunshot randomization, "swimmy" sniper scopes, and so on at low skill levels, rock-steady accuracy and mild amounts of auto-aim at high skill levels.