Broken Sword is fast losing its charm.

[Jaesun]

What the hell was good in dreamfall? There was nothing.

The took a fucking fantastic setting and story and then took a huge shit on it.

 

[Black Cat]

My main issue is that it's focused almost exclusively on dialogue/character interaction as opposed to puzzles (or whatever term you want to use - I'm referring to the kind that are abstract, i.e. move these blocks around, etc). Call me a sucker but I love that shit when it's done well.

That's your problem. There are, basicaly, two kinds of Adventure Games: Those based on story, character interaction, and kind of retarded inventory puzzles, which we could say are their version of storyfag games, and those based on puzzle solving, understanding not always obvious clues, spending long stretches of time trying to solve a single problem until you go eureka! and shit, which are their version of the hardcore dungeon crawling with turn based combat games.

Broken Sword, as you may have understood already, belongs to the former group.

Try some of the better ones from the second group: All of the Myst games up to IV (myst, riven, exile, revelations), Schizm (aka: Mysterious Journey), Cydonia (aka: Lightbringer), Obsidian, the Aura games, Faust (aka: Seven games of the soul), the Rhem games, etc. Those are more what you seem to be looking for: Pretty and lonely places you explore while solving tons of hardcore puzzles, collecting weird and obscure clues, paying attention to all the little details, and stuffies. Then you have an epiphany and open a new area to explore.

And no, Broken Sword doesn't get any better. In fact it gets worse, and once you reach the story's climax it takes away your control of the characters and everything happens in a cinematic.

 

[Forest Dweller]

1) You mentioned being something of a storyfag, so would you be interested in adventure games with good stories but fairly weak puzzles if they were less cartoony/more realistic than BS?

I suppose so. But like I said, the standards need to be pretty high storywise for me to elevate that above other elements. Think PST, Xenogears, Deus Ex, etc. to get the basic idea. And in those examples, the gameplay was also good.

Would you prefer a game with a good story and average puzzles or an average story and tough but logical puzzles?

The latter.

2) I mentioned earlier that I played another Broken Sword game, and I personally found the characters lacking in that as well (although that relatively minor among my problems with the game). But I wouldn't say it was because they were just cartoony, so much as because they were cartoony in a very flat, corny way. Basically, I felt that the characters didn't have much going for them personality-wise other than humor, and that the developers had a very different sense of humor than I did. OTOH, I enjoyed some of the more cartoony LucasArts games (Day of the Tentacle, Sam and Max Hit the Road, the pre-Escape Monkey Island games) as well as some other similar adventures in part because of their humor. So does cartooniness in general turn you off from a game, or do you think you could enjoy it if it was done right?

Hmm. Ok. For the record, I thought Psychonauts was a funny game. If that's example of "cartoony done right" then I guess so. And I suppose it is. I guess the deal with that game is it's funny precisely because it goes for wacky over-the-top things as opposed to stupid cliches (i.e. the dumb American (George), the bumbling museum guard, the stuck up English bitch, etc.).

3) Do you have an preferences about the controls/style/presentation of an adventure game? E.g. text parser vs. point-and-click vs. WASD keyboard movement.

I'd prefer point-and-click, but it's not a huge issue. I noticed Grim Fandago is all done with keyboard.

Are you okay with text-based games, or is there some minimal level of graphics you prefer?

Don't think I'm ready for pure text yet, though as I said, I enjoyed the Codex text adventure and would have enjoyed it more if not for the forced ironman. The impression I get with text-adventures is that they were the earliest kind (obviously) and so perhaps their mechanics might be a bit primitive compared to the later adventures with graphics. Perhaps I'm wrong though and maybe the opposite is true since they can't rely on pretty graphics. I don't know. If there are any that are "like the Codex game" (whatever that means) I might consider them.

4) In terms of puzzles, would it bother you if you couldn't finish the game because you missed something early on in the game and couldn't go back to get it without starting over?

Now that's a deal-breaker. Not only would I hate that as a gamer, but I am fundamentally opposed to it on principle. So no. Just no. I wouldn't touch a game like with a ten-foot pole.

I heard this was only a feature in the early adventure games and that it got phased out as the genre progressed.

In the meantime, you might also try looking at this thread, which has a lot of detailed discussion about good adventure games, and this thread, which talks about realistic adventure games that lack wacky elements (unfortunately, it also excludes those with mystical elements, so it's missing a lot of good non-cartoony games).

Will do. I'll wait till I've finished Broken Sword though.

 

[Radisshu]

Dicksmoker, stop being such a fucking idiot. Read your own posts every once in a while.

Most ironic use of that image ever?

Yes.

EDIT: If we put linear Monkey Island-esque adventure games into a subgenre, Broken Sword is one of my favourites; but there are many I haven't played. It's surpassed by Quest for Glory though, because BS (lol) is still one of those games that really are a completely linear sequence of mouse clicks, with no other gameplay. Although you can die at a few times.

 

[Forest Dweller]

That's your problem. There are, basicaly, two kinds of Adventure Games: Those based on story, character interaction, and kind of retarded inventory puzzles, which we could say are their version of storyfag games, and those based on puzzle solving, understanding not always obvious clues, spending long stretches of time trying to solve a single problem until you go eureka! and shit, which are their version of the hardcore dungeon crawling with turn based combat games.

Broken Sword, as you may have understood already, belongs to the former group.

Nice to know.

Try some of the better ones from the second group: All of the Myst games up to IV (myst, riven, exile, revelations), Schizm (aka: Mysterious Journey), Cydonia (aka: Lightbringer), Obsidian, the Aura games, Faust (aka: Seven games of the soul), the Rhem games, etc. Those are more what you seem to be looking for: Pretty and lonely places you explore while solving tons of hardcore puzzles, collecting weird and obscure clues, paying attention to all the little details, and stuffies. Then you have an epiphany and open a new area to explore.

So what group do the Monkey Island games, Grim Fandango, and Sanitarium fit it?

Also what about the Tex Murphy games? Looks like storyfag games, but Sceptic has claimed that they have C&C. Or at least, he said The Pandora Detective has C&C, not sure if he was including the others. That immediately makes it more interesting, and this applies to any other game with C&C as well. A friend also told me that Indiana Jones: Fate of Atlantis (the one adventure game he played as a kid) has multiple ways to solve problems.

And no, Broken Sword doesn't get any better. In fact it gets worse, and once you reach the story's climax it takes away your control of the characters and everything happens in a cinematic.

What about the others in the series? Or are they just worse?

 

[Forest Dweller]

Dicksmoker, stop being such a fucking idiot. Read your own posts every once in a while.

Maybe you should try doing the same (or at least try a little comprehension before you spout off like a retard).

 

[Radisshu]

Dicksmoker, stop being such a fucking idiot. Read your own posts every once in a while.

Maybe you should try doing the same (or at least try a little comprehension before you spout off like a retard).

Normally, "lol reading comprehension plz" rebuttals are used when it seems as if someone has read but misunderstood the original text. I just called you a fucking idiot without going into details, going "HEY PAL LEARN TO COMPREHEND WHAT I'M SAYING MAN" isn't a great comeback.

EDIT: Or.. what.. do you just mean comprehension in general? Did you just go "WELL... TRY COMPREHENDING THINGS BEFORE YOU CALL ME A RETARD!" Coupled with a "you've also got that problem you just accused me of having"?

 

[made]

TLDR. BS is overrated. Play a good adventure instead. There's a list around here somewhere.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Dicksmoker, stop being such a fucking idiot. Read your own posts every once in a while.

Maybe you should try doing the same (or at least try a little comprehension before you spout off like a retard).

Normally, "lol reading comprehension plz" rebuttals are used when it seems as if someone has read but misunderstood the original text. I just called you a fucking idiot without going into details, going "HEY PAL LEARN TO COMPREHEND WHAT I'M SAYING MAN" isn't a great comeback.

Oh, you mean like your very intelligent rebuttal of all my points? Get the fuck out of here.

Protip: If someone writes a detailed description of why something sucks you might want to try refuting those points in an intelligent manner rather than just calling him a retard, if you want to be taken seriously. Now you look like an even bigger retard for apparently not getting this very simple concept.

 

[Sceptic]

Or at least, he said The Pandora Detective has C&C, not sure if he was including the others.

I was not and they don't, which is one of the reasons TPD is my favorite (the others being better puzzle, good writing overall even if the general plot is cliche as fuck, and absolutely fantastic atmosphere in the middle chapters. It's also one of the FMV games to be a game first and a movie second).

A friend also told me that Indiana Jones: Fate of Atlantis (the one adventure game he played as a kid) has multiple ways to solve problems.

Not quite. It has 3 distinct paths through the game, each with most puzzles being different, but not mulitple solutions within each path.

Black Cat is correct that you are far more likely to enjoy Myst-like games if you want puzzles over story (which... is kinda surprising coming from you). Your comments on text adventures are facepalmy, but you may just have been reading too much skyway. Anyway Legend text adventures are pretty easy, Infocom's were generally much tougher with a higher puzzle:story ratio. There are tons of indie IF games too, I recommended some in the IF thread of a while back. And finally there's Scott Adams text adventures, which are light on story and heavy on puzzle-solving.

Generally, mid 80's to 1990 adventures were toughest. They got progressively easier after that, with notable exception like TPD, Myst et al, and so on.

Come to think of it the Dr Brain series might be your thing if you want point and click logic puzzles with minimal story. Though you'll probably complain because it's an edutainment title
(though Island on Hard is pretty hard at times)

 

[SCO]

Ok dicksmoker, i think you need to mess a little with Galatea

http://iplayif.com/?story=http://parchm ... .zblorb.js

It's storyfag, with has many multiple endings and paths, it's short, mostly no puzzles, one room and you only need to click on that link and experiment a little.

 

[Grunker]

retarted boring bitch Zoë

To each his own...

 

[curry]

Broken Sword is shit. It is the Fallout 3 of adventure games.

edit because it needs to be said: I had no idea there would come a thread where I'd agree with Dicksmoker. Seriously. The end is fucking my thigh.

It's one of those games you probably won't enjoy unless you played it back in the day.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Your comments on text adventures are facepalmy, but you may just have been reading too much skyway.

Anyway Legend text adventures are pretty easy, Infocom's were generally much tougher with a higher puzzle:story ratio. There are tons of indie IF games too, I recommended some in the IF thread of a while back. And finally there's Scott Adams text adventures, which are light on story and heavy on puzzle-solving.

Generally, mid 80's to 1990 adventures were toughest. They got progressively easier after that, with notable exception like TPD, Myst et al, and so on.

And how does the Codex text adventure fit into all of that?

Come to think of it the Dr Brain series might be your thing if you want point and click logic puzzles with minimal story. Though you'll probably complain because it's an edutainment title

Bitch please. You don't know what I'll complain about or not.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

It's one of those games you probably won't enjoy unless you played it back in the day.

Which I did. Then it was just shit, now it's overrated shit.

 

[Black Cat]

So what group do the Monkey Island games, Grim Fandango, and Sanitarium fit it?

The Monkey Island games and Grim Fandango are in the first group. I don't personally enjoy Grim Fandango, but the Monkey Island games are some of the few of those I really like. I hate inventory puzzles, though: Either they are logical and thus very easy (use items in obvious and coherent ways), or they are illogical and thus make me angry. I mostly enjoy the Monkey Island games because they are weird and witty and so full of pirate goodness, but their puzzles are much more focused on being funny jokes than on being actual puzzles, though there are some witty or smart ones, and the sword duels on I and III are the most awesome thingie, like, totally ever.

Sanitarium is more of an hybrid, I guess. I don't remember much about it, though. I did not like the plot so I kind of forgot most stuffies and thingies.

Also what about the Tex Murphy games? Looks like storyfag games

They are. The character is pretty cool and funny, though. There are some stealth sequences here and there if I remember it right, but they are about this easy if you have gone through actual stealth games.

What about the others in the series? Or are they just worse?

The second one is worse: The plot is banal, shit, boring and the puzzles are basicaly a Hidden Object Game in disguise, as you just need to find all interactive thingies in each screen and then fumble with them for about five seconds to clear every scene.

I did not play any Broken Sword game beyond the first two, though. I don't really enjoy those kind of stuffies full of plot and the like. Instead of exploring a cool place and having to interpretate what we find, deduce how thingies work in base to that, and then experiment around until we can open a new area you are just going through a linear series of boring challenges with no exploration, thought, nor deduction involved, and there's no sense of accomplishment when you get through a screen as inventory puzzles come only in two varieties: Very easy and stupidly convoluted.

If you want to try some more adventure games of the plot and inventory puzzle variety try some of the really cool ones: First try the Quest for Glory games, which are awesome given there are actually many ways to solve situations based on your skills and spells and the like given they are adventure and role playing game hybrids. Then you have Dragonsphere, which is really a labor of love with lots of interactive hotspots, clues hidden in the long and detailed descriptions of almost everythingie you can examine, etc, and King Quest VI, which is also awesome. You can't go wrong with those.

And, since I am quite sure someone did recomend you, or will recomend you, The longest journey, let's be clear about this: It is not good at all if you aren't into linear storyfag adventures. The puzzles are awful and, like, super contrived, and many times you actually can't do certain thingies until you have done others totally unrelated stuffies even when you know what to do just to keep the plot from breaking down. The only thingie it has going for it is the plot, which even if you are a storyfag may or may not work for you.

Also, if you can run a DS emulator get yourself Ghost Trick and 999 too, both have pretty good plots, some nice characters, and some challenging puzzles. Think of them as hybrids.

 

[Ulminati]

Dicksmoker -- At least play grim fandango. It's quite possibly the best adventure game ever made (certainly the best one Lucasarts made, and they gave us monkey island, day of the tentacle, sam & max and indiana jones & the fate of atlantis). It also has more illogical use x on y puzzles an dless dialogue puzzles which seem to be what you bemoan in BS

 

[Forest Dweller]

While browsing through GOG I saw Broken Sword 4, and this is how the description opens:

After reluctantly battling dragons, Mayan gods, and becoming a Knight of a long lost Holy Order, unwitting hero George Stobbart settles down to a life of mundane 9-5 office work.

 

[Jaesun]

Out of SHEER curiosity, I'd love to see Dicksmoker play Myst and all of his comments about the game and hows he sees the logical puzzles, and how non of them make any sense to him at all.

Potential Comedy Gold™.

 

[Desmodus Rotundus]

Btw if you don't like the slideshow there's always realMYST http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1227770/myst_in_real_time_3_d/

 

[Forest Dweller]

Yes, I saw that on GOG in addition to the original. Not sure which to get.

EDIT: Meh, think I'll go with the original.

 

[Sceptic]

Yeah I admit that wasn't a fair comparison, but you made a "they're older therefore they're more primitive" comment and I'm particularly sensitive to these.

In any case, it really depends on what you define as primitive. I think of parsers as more complex than any point and click UI, and the mid-to-late Infocom and the Legend parsers are incredible (especially Legend's). Though you're correct that the parser-graphic adventures like Sierra's do suffer from primitiveness, both in the parser itself (Sierra's SCI parser used in KQ4 until they moved to point-and-click is much better than that in their older AGI games, but it's still weak) and in moving your character about the screen (where you had to use the arrow keys and your char would get stuck on the stupidest things on-screen. Or fall off the fucking stairs, the fucking walkways, the fucking cliff, or the fucking beanstalk). Text games avoided the latter problem entirely (no graphics = no char to move = no problem!) and as I said above got pretty good parsers around 85 or 86.

I'm not sure which text adventures to recommend, TBH. I'm tempted to throw in some of Infocom's toughies (Hitchhiker, Bureaucracy, Spellbreaker, and the best and one of my favorite games in any genre, Trinity), but as an introduction to the genre they'll probably make you rage. The Zork trilogy is good as they're quite heavily on the puzzle side of the spectrum, but they're also their first games and so the parser isn't as robust as their later games.

And how does the Codex text adventure fit into all of that?

I had all of about 5 minutes with it before I had to get RL stuff done and by the time I could go back to it DU had already removed it, so I didn't really get to do much with it.

Bitch please. You don't know what I'll complain about or not.

I was referring to your cartoonish=childish comment. And, well, Dr Brain games are children's games. I happen to not mind, but they're not exactly what I would generally recommend as an entry-level adventure. The reason I thought they might appeal to you is that they are pure puzzle-based (including litteral "moving blocks" puzzles). There are 4 games in the series, and I only played the first two (Castle and Island). Unlike Myst, where the puzzles are somehow integrated into the environment (at least sometimes) and part of the process is to figure out where a puzzle starts and where its solution could be found, the Brain puzzles are all completely self-contained and both games are strictly linear, moving you from one puzzle to the next. Castle is generally easy even on the hardest difficulty, Island on Hard can be a fun challenge on puzzles outside your area of expertise.

There are some stealth sequences here and there if I remember it right, but they are about this easy if you have gone through actual stealth games.

I don't remember any stealth sequences outside of one in UKM, which is possibly the weakest game in the series anyway (and the one with the most blatantly easy puzzles). Also, TPD IMO has the perfect balance between storyfaggotry and puzzlefaggotry, but I'm obviously biased towards that game.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Finally beating Trinity was a great feeling.

 

[SCO]

Fool's Errand?

Puzzle game, but quality.

http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/487/F ... ,+The.html

 

[thesoup]

3 is the fucking shitty popamole console Broken Sword right?

I like to call it Broken Sword 3: Sokoban Edition