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Caesar 3, Zeus or Children of the Nile?

Callaxes

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
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1,676
I haven't played Caesar 3 since I was a little brat (not as long as it sounds). I was never good at it, buildings always crumbled down in my cities. Still, I want to give it another go.

I'm not sure though which is the best Caesar clone. Are Zeus or Children of the Nile any better?
 

Sulimo

Arcane
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Wasteland 2
Zeus is funnier. Children of the nile has different mechanics, so it's not a Zeus-Clone per-se, but it's amusing as well. Should try them both and see what you like. Pharaoh is more Ceasar 3-like.

Depends on which setting you prefer tbh.
Zeus = Ancient Greece, with some mythological monsters, heroes and Gods thrown in.
CotN = Ancient Egypt, different mechanics, don't really remember much of it.
Pharaoh = Ceasar 3 clone in Ancient Egypt.
 

KazikluBey

Cipher
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They're so alike I wouldn't want to describe any of the four Caesar 3-games as "better". Different, certainly, and harder or easier.

Caesar 3: Often considered the most difficult, partly due to lacking certain things like roadblocks (though gatehouses fill much the same function) and less fine-grained control over storehouses.

Pharaoh+Cleopatra: Sometimes also considered the most difficult, due to things like entertainment venues requiring intersections, broken terrain that is bi- and tri-sected by the Nile, water access restricts where you can build housing blocks, monuments to build, more goods, etc.

Zeus+Poseidon: By far the easiest. Does away with labor walkers, meaning you can place industrial districts without concern for labor access, reduces the amount of goods, monuments easier to build. Planning things in detail before starting a mission is less useful, as the game is divided into Adventures and you keep returning to the same city mission after mission, with new goals, interspersed with colony founding missions.

Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom: Haven't really played it, but in keeping with Zeus, it lacks labor walkers.

These four, and no others, are the Caesar 3-likes.

Two more city-building games were made by sort-of the same people from Impressions under the new company Tilted Mill:

Children of the Nile: New Egypt game, this time more realistic and simulationist - there's no walker management, every citizen in simulated and they go get all the services they need, rather than having them delivered to them. So from a push to a pull system. Haven't played much of it.

Caesar 4: Also mostly does away with walker management, felt something like a cross between Caesar 2 and 3, IIRC. Has 3 types of housing, the poor doing the dirty jobs, a middle class doing nicer jobs, and the patricians that do nothing all day. IIRC.

There's also Civcity: Rome, was playable, but nothing special, as far as I remember.



BTW: Here's a pretty good and instructive LP of a guy playing a map of Caesar 3, Pharaoh, Zeus, and Emperor. So far he has finished the Caesar 3 map and the Pharaoh map, and is well on his way to finishing a Zeus adventure.
 

catfood

AGAIN
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Pretty much what the poster above me said. If you want to learn how to play them properly you should go to heavengames.com and to the respective sites for the game you wish to play. Go to the strategy sections and check out the housing blocks there. You don't have to memorise them but they should give you a basic idea on how a successful block works. Once you know how to design a few good housing blocks the games become a lot easier.

Also, about Zeus, the focus is kind of divided between city management and heroes/gods/monsters management. It's a bit unique in the series like that, and as mentioned before it is also the easiest. You should start with that before taking on the other ones.
 

SCO

Arcane
In My Safe Space
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
There is a new setup executable for Caesar 3, pretty handy to grab, nocd full install. On the sierra help pages (google it).
 

Ashery

Prophet
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May 24, 2008
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KazikluBey said:
Zeus+Poseidon: By far the easiest. Does away with labor walkers, meaning you can place industrial districts without concern for labor access, reduces the amount of goods, monuments easier to build. Planning things in detail before starting a mission is less useful, as the game is divided into Adventures and you keep returning to the same city mission after mission, with new goals, interspersed with colony founding missions.

And that's the very reason why I consider Zeus to be the weakest of the series. Sure, it's fun to bitch slap an opposing city and then receive an annual tribute, but the rigid structure for progress just kills everything that made Caesar 3 and Pharaoh enjoyable for me.

Haven't played Emperor yet as there was some odd conflict where I'd be unable to install it so long as I had Pharaoh installed. Of the first three games, though, I'd give the nod to Pharaoh as the first in the series to play. Caesar 3 still ranks up there, but it requires better knowledge of the engine and its quirks to do well in the later missions.

Caesar 4 is also quite good (Haven't played CotN), but the style's significantly different. The change from a push to pull system, as Kazik mentioned, is one of the more fundamental changes. Traders also require city-specific warehouses to do trade as opposed to buying from any random warehouse (This is actually an improvement in my mind as you'll have better control of the goods they buy without having to "manipulate" the engine directly (By, say, making sure your villas/palaces are as far away from the trade route as possible so that you don't accidentally sell off the handful of furniture you carted half way across the map)). There are a bunch of other changes that I can't quite remember as it's been a few years since I played through C4.
 

Paperclip

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Children of the Nile may simulate the economy system realistically but it also makes the game somewhat easy (your city pretty much cannot collapse unless you're really stupid and slow). Here, the city planning aspect is all about optimization.
 

thesheeep

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Somehow I managed to never play those games. Maybe once when I was much younger and failed miserably at them and then just went on playing Counterstrike...

Gotta play on of these soon.
 

Paperclip

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thesheeep said:
Somehow I managed to never play those games. Maybe once when I was much younger and failed miserably at them and then just went on playing Counterstrike...

Gotta play on of these soon.

Games with walker (push?) system, where citizens don't buy goods from shops but from peddlers/walkers, do require better city planning because those walkers are dumb, i.e. they don't always pick the most efficient path and can wander aimlessly. Make sure that these walkers operate in a straight/circular non branching path whenever possible.
 

Trash

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What made me grow to loathe this genre is the fact that everything you make has to be done in a soulless grid. Human settlements were hardly ever made in nice grids. A jumbled mess, sure, but not neatly layed out. Simulating a human town was the thing I hoped to play, finding out that I was basically playing another puzzler killed it for me.
 

Paperclip

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Trash said:
What made me grow to loathe this genre is the fact that everything you make has to be done in a soulless grid. Human settlements were hardly ever made in nice grids. A jumbled mess, sure, but not neatly layed out. Simulating a human town was the thing I hoped to play, finding out that I was basically playing another puzzler killed it for me.

Then perhaps Children of the Nile or Tropico will suit you best.

Actually, the "puzzle" like aspect is what makes city planning fun. Without it there's little reason to plan your city, except for optimization.
 

taplonaplo

Scholar
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Aug 8, 2008
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628
Reject_666_6 said:
More people should play Emperor. It's really good and not popamole.
But what does it add to say Pharaoh besides different graphics?
 

Reject_666_6

Arcane
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Oct 30, 2008
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Can't tell you off the top of my head, cause a lot of the features between the games are mixed up in my mind. I remember Emperor having residential walls and three different time-periods to play in, which have some different resources and buildings available.

EDIT: There were walker gods too.
 

Wise Emperor

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The only one from the series that i didn't played maybe I should give it a try.

Loved Pharaoh for the setting, pyramid building and gods appeasing. Most of those games indeed deserve at least a proper try.
 

Lightknight

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
705
Human settlements were hardly ever made in nice grids.
Oh really ? USians, who only ever built cities starting with a cross of two streets, then many sidestreets always perpendicular, and then using the most soulless and unimaginative naming schemes you can think of : Main street, 1st street, 2nd street, 34th avenue, and so on.

Other, more creative civilizations, pretty much always made settlements starting with a circle, true.
 

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