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Can RPGs ever be as intelligent and engrossing as they used to be?

Gregz

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The Desert Wasteland
Most compelling games have one thing in common, they take minutes to learn and a lifetime to master.

Dumbing down content to broaden market share is real, but designers are getting better at making games that can scale with the abilities of the player.

Discovering them requires discarding some prejudices however, which the Codex isn't very good at.
 

Luckmann

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While I don't think we'll ever go back to the good old days, "fully voiced herp-derp" may not be a barrier for much longer, as realistic voice-synthetization is on the horizon. At some point in the near future, it may be possible to simply write the dialogue, hit a "randomize voice" and get Commoner #418 to spout faux-French dialogue in a shitty Swedish accent at your hearts content.
 

Storyfag

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While Pathfinder: Kingmaker is not fucking stellar, it is a neat little thing showcasing that nuance is not lost in the genre. If anything, I would fear writers' increasing disconnection from reality (oh, hi there BL2) as the true danger. But that sort of thing comes and goes. And in todays world, we have a multitude of sources for games - from Canada to Russia. Someone is bound to hit the jackpot.
 

Urthor

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
When are these supposed good old days exactly? I don't think anyone has actually ever agreed on the good old days because they start fighting over whether RTWP is the good old days or not.

The only thing people can agree on being the "good old days" is Fallout really.

"Games were better back then" classics that are as good as Underrail are pretty slim on the ground.

The current setup where we get an Atom or Pathfinder Kingmaker rearing its head out of the true home of RPGs, Eastern Europe, a couple of times a year is working pretty well compared to the late 2000s.
 
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Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
979
This is like 2007 news you latent potato head

Precisely, time collapsed in 2007, the world ended and you just kept hallucinating. I'm sorry, but there is no "RPG Renaissance", there's no "Kickstarter", no "Barack Obama", there's no 8 year old tranny sitting in the UN Security Council. It's all lies and you should be thankful for it. I guess letting yourself be captured by the demented projections of an evil sub-dimensional archon is easier than facing reality.

Going back to the topic as I didn't want to shit up the thread--I think talking about "intellectual stimulation" is framing the issue incorrectly. Whenever smart developers try to make fun and interesting games and they succeed, you're likely to get something "intellectually stimulating". The opposite happens when you have dumb ideas and vulgar people. The nature of the game determines the kind of stimulation, it's not something you can put on by giving your game 2,150,000 lines of text, "mature themes", making it turn-based, old-school, etc. What is true for RPGs is true for "shallow" genres like arcade racers, platformers, etc. whose better examples stand out from the rest just as clearly as good RPGs from bad ones. One only needs to play them to know.

The greatest enemy of good games is probably games journalism, conventions and the whole organization of middleman striver interests who became representatives of "gamer culture" for the industry. They are, in fact, part of the industry, its detritus. Therefore, to avoid those things as much as possible is the best practice. Otherwise, I don't think current developers are impoverished in relation to 20 years ago. Every historical time has its particular energy and creative momentum and there probably are periods one might consider "sterile". It's incorrect to do a post-mortem on something that is still living, though. The present time might still bring us wonders.

EDIT: I should also add that a few modern games like Kenshi, F:NV and AoD really defied my expectations and made me lose myself in them for long periods. I found it interesting that, in their own way, they were all fruits of single-minded focus and determination.
 
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Semiurge

Cipher
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Asp Hole
The golden age belonged to the boomers and genX-ers, some of them still remain in the industry. Men (sorry otherkin) of vision and passion. It used to be about what could be done, not how much money could be made.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,616
Good news for those who want a return of the glory days:
-Improved tools and asset store marketplaces continue to drive down the costs of production.
-Cohesive products favor very small teams.

Bad news:
-There's a massive time investment to create game content, which means the best indie developers of our generation are probably working full time on enterprise software because it pays their mortgage.
-Game engine advancements will flood the market with so much shit that you won't even be able to examine all of it to find a hidden gem.
 

Takamori

Learned
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
875
Well relying on AAA RPGs to be intelligent is almost impossible at this point. They want to rake the profits the only RPG stuff they are going to use is progression system where they can milk the retards.
Its like was mentioned before wait for 1-3 releases at best per year and enjoy the despair.
 
Joined
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The Present
When are these supposed good old days exactly? I don't think anyone has actually ever agreed on the good old days because they start fighting over whether RTWP is the good old days or not.

The only thing people can agree on being the "good old days" is Fallout really.

"Games were better back then" classics that are as good as Underrail are pretty slim on the ground.

The current setup where we get an Atom or Pathfinder Kingmaker rearing its head out of the true home of RPGs, Eastern Europe, a couple of times a year is working pretty well compared to the late 2000s.

The vague consensus on RPGCodex is the golden age lasted from 1996 to 2004. The only reason it even extends as far as 2004 is because of B:VtM. I agree that right now we are in a period of gaming that is roughly equivalent to that era, with some distinctions. It would seem Eastern Europe is shouldering the mantle of civilization while The West suicides itself, but I'm hoping they can keep the light burning. We're about to enter at time where people who were weened on Dragon Age with no exposure to PC games prior are emerging professionally. Hold your breath. The future is uncertain.
 

Riddler

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Bubbles In Memoria
The only way a good AAA RPG is getting made is if someone crazy like Sven makes it and has a coherent non-shit vision (relating to the entire game, not just gameplay) that he enforces with an iron hand.
 

Tacgnol

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
So what can be done? Is there any hope for the RPGs of the future?

For indie and some AA titles. For AAA titles? Not in the current climate.

Even if by some miracle a AAA title has incline gameplay, it'll probably force unironic wokeness down your throat at every turn.

We've had some serious incline from Indie and AA titles over the last few years.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
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Underrail 2, Colony Ship, Encased, Vagrus, Trudograd, P:WotR, Cleve's next game.
Underrail 2 - Serbia
Colony Ship - USA, indie
Encased - Russia
Vagrus - Hungary
Trudograd - Russia
P:WotR - Russia
Cleve's game - Australia, indie

Here's your recipe for decline - Eastern Europe or USA independent stuff. Avoid the mainstream market like a plague it is
 
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Takamori

Learned
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
875
Underrail 2, Colony Ship, Encased, Vagrus, Trudograd, P:WotR, Cleve's next game.
Underrail 2 - Serbia
Colony Ship - USA, indie
Encased - Russia
Vagrus - Hungary
Trudograd - Russia
P:WotR - Russia
Cleve's game - Australia, indie

Here's your recipe for decline - Eastern Europe or USA independent stuff. Ignore the mainstream market like a plague it is


Encased is a matter of dealing with the bugs and the devs drop the RNG shit from certain departments, the game is satisfatory with its gameplay and the 70s + Fallout theme is actually charming.
Underrail 2 is something far away sadly from what I read, they are still studying the engine before going full production and they are still working the base underrail with updates.
Trudograd I'm waiting to be released I dont want to burnout myself with too many CRPGs, since Im already dealing with Encased EA
P:WoTR Im expecting to be unplayable for the first 3-6 months and then they get their shit together like Kingmaker
Cleve I'm not incline enough to deal with it so can't give an opinion.

Problem with US and Eastern Europe is like someone mentioned in the thread, production cost also the cost of living in the country so they rather work a stable job in a regular software company then deal with gaming industry shenanigans that is full of shit that we are already aware of.

Edit forgot to mention Colony Ship, but given my avatar no wonder I'm actually in good hopes with it given the demo.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
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Messages
24,568
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
Seriously, anyone expecting anything good or at least decent from the mainstream market is seriously retarded. Mainstream was never about substance, but always about form. Indie games have their flaws, but you can see the soul and passion in there, so there is always something to be enjoyed.
 

Curratum

Guest
RPGs were "intelligent"? The coxed is masturbating over number crunching and builds for decades and you're talking about intelligent?

Disco Elysium is probably the most "intelligent" RPG to come out in ages, but I feel more than half codexers hate it because it lacks MUH CRUNCH.
 

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