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Can the simple & shallow be good? Or Im becoming a popamole old fag?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Silva, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. Silva Arcane

    Silva
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    I've been thinking about this for some time now. As an old time Codexer, I was always an advocate for the deep & complex. R6, Jagged Alliances, SMAC, Planescape Torment, the deeper the better was my motto. But as I become older (40) I see myself lacking the patience I had before, and came to appreciate works in general (games, films, books, etc) that are quicker, simpler/shallower or easier to learn, more and more.

    I see this is in RPGs. I don't go far into RPG games for more than a decade. Tried Skyrim, Witcher 3, Tides of Numanuma, etc. Played 10h or less in each and don't want to try again. They feel tiresome these days. Too many stats and quests and hearing karens problems for xp. Boooring. I see this in strategy games too, where I used to love full blown in-depth titles like Victoria 2 or Civ4 but nowadays find them kinda stressful and not so fun.

    The games that have been the most fun in the last decade for me were simple ones, and usually fast paced. That bug metroidvania one, Hotlines, Souls and BB, Into the Beach (FTL stresses me), The spire one with cards, Hades, Among us, etc (yeah, I play Among us with my kids and it's hilarious).

    But this really dawned on me when I was looking for a game to scratch my samurai itch and after analysing Total War Three Kingdoms vs RTK 14 and concluding that yes, Total War 3K seems the better game in all respects... I don't think I'll have the patience to learn and play it, and will probably get RTK14 which has the depth of a facebook game but relaxing music and funny portraits and so will be easier to play while drunk on my sofa after a days work (well, when I get a work because I'm unemployed right now, but you get the idea).

    So bros. Anybody else finds complex games more and more stressful and not worthing it these days, and has prefering the simpler, faster or shallower ones? Please don't understand this a "very hard" thing, of course there are exceptions, be it some old game that became second nature for me (like SMAC) or some new shiny that manages to touch all my triggers (rarer by the day).

    (cvv , D_X , The Brazilian Slaughter , DraQ , Crispy , I wanna hear ya because you're probably a bunch of old fags like myself)
     
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  2. Konjad High on potatoes Patron

    Konjad
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    Strap Yourselves In Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    wat? JA is okay, but R6 is far from deep & complex, it's just a simple tactical game ( I assume you talk about old R6, I didn't touch the new ones), SMAC is a fairly simple strategic game, and PST is just a good story and characters. However, perhaps I don't understand your meaning of "deep & complex".

    Skyrim - utter garbage
    Witcher 3 - just alright if you're a storyfag, but gameplay is shit
    Numanuma - fucking diarrhea

    in depth in what, I mean, I like Victoria 2, but it's fairly simple too, and piss easy tbh

    Only played of these Hotlines Miami, but i'm too slow for arcade, FTL was meh (too random, you can't really plan ahead), and Among Us which I get why it's fun with close people. Doesn't mean really much, I enjoyed shit like MMOs with my close friends too for social reasons.

    Last good TW was Attila, newer ones are shit, don't bother.

    You're looking for a wrong thing.


    By the way, did you play Prelude to Darkness yet?
     
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  3. pizza_microwave Learned

    pizza_microwave
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    How is Hollow Knight shallower than Planescape Torment?

    It feels like what you're trying to tell me is that you thought that newer games post 9/11 were "simple" and "shallow" and that now you enjoy these contemporary games and you don't think they're so shallow or simple anymore.

    There's a whole menu of reasons as to why you like them now: you feel tired of playing the same games and took an interest to newer games; if you think they're truly simple and shallow, for whatever reason, your brain just wants to wind down and play something relaxed while you get drunk and don't have to actively focus your attention on it; maybe you're open to new horizons and you are less conservative about what makes a game ENJOYABLE.

    Who gives a fuck in the end? I mean as long as you play videogames and like playing videogames, whether videogames genre X or Y, the answer to every of one your questions regarding this issue will be "because I like videogames". And that's a good enough answer.
     
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  4. Bester ⚰️☠️⚱️ Patron Vatnik

    Bester
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    Check your testosterone levels. Not saying it edgily. They're probably too low, time to start TRT. You'll love challenge again.
     
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  5. InSight Learned Possibly Retarded

    InSight
    Joined:
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    Lesser games require less energy, that is their greatest advantage.

    One should try Niacin flush since its plasticity/changes in the brain seems to increasing motivation as if the snapped circuits in the brain were reattached. Also one should consider Melatonin as Cleve recommended/suggested/advised.

    \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

    If testosterone levels are low, they are caused due to stress for even old aged man can/have normal levels of it. The main/major/big hindrance to it is the hormone cortisol(if memory serves) thus avoiding, not consuming certain harmful food such as modern bread, oils and other food additive for days are fundamental/important/crucial.

    I have been told that TRT(Testosterone Replacement Therapy) such in gel use, increases your chances of heart attack dramatically thus it is a bad/harmful/shortsighted advice.

    Reading on the many benefits of keeping the sabbath holy(Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) may help as well on assumption the rest shall refill dopamine levels.
     
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  6. Sandro Botticelli Literate

    Sandro Botticelli
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    It's natural for tastes to change as you get older. Just play what's fun even if that means it's something that others here look down upon. Who cares?
     
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  7. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Hmm, I'm definitely noticing that too but only to a small extent and only in RPGs. I gave up on AoD and Underrail, too much shit to juggle and worry about, even tho 10 years ago I probably would've been all over that. And recently I watched Cohh streaming the new Pathfinder and thought "no fucking way I'm buying and playing that shit". The character creation alone gave me severe headache. In my teens and 20s I mostly played turn-based RPGs, now I somewhat prefer action, Souls-likes or even simpler shit like Darksiders.

    As for strategy games, I guess it's about the same, strangely. I still like the same level of complexity - not too fiddly, not to dumbfucked. Like Paradox grand strats have always been way too anal for me, something like Frostpunk or Surviving Mars is the perfect sweet spot for me.
     
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  8. Runciter Augur

    Runciter
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    For me what kills a game nowadays is "I've seen it before already." I also rarely read fiction or watch Hollywood movies any more. Maturing is a bitch.
     
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  9. Machocruz Arcane

    Machocruz
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    As I get older, I prefer a game to be more on the complex side, for its genre. Like I've tried to go back and play console games from the 80s and 90s, and they just don't hold my interest. Too simple, though some may be difficult. Metal Slugs are the few exceptions, and some adventure games. Even if I feel like popping moles, I will go for the action-adventure genre, which gives you more to do than fight.

    But i drop games more often and earlier than when I was younger. I hardly finish anything anymore. Or it will take me a few months to a year to, depending on the size of the game. And having abundant options is more troublesome to me now. Harder to decide on and stick with a game at a time. I haven't even touched any of the new wave of CRPGs besides a few hours of Underrail. I'd like to see for myself how they are, but the thought of even beginning to go through them is daunting.
     
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  10. Viata Arcane

    Viata
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    Funny, the older I get, the more complex and deep things(as long as it's not shit) I want to try. Not only for games, but for books too.
    I went from reading mostly fantasy/cyberpunk books to mostly philosophy books(and textbooks for obvious reasons).
    If it's not arcade games(which I'll always love), I only play games in languages I'm learning(not English anymore) so I can force my brain to work even if the game is too shallow(it has to have lots of dialogues, texts and whatnot to make my brain work hard).
    I'm old, but not old enough to think I should rest a little. :dealwithit:
     
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  11. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    Age changed nothing for me. A good engaging game is just that. I think you've just come to realize some certain old games just aren't that good, because they're storyfag shit with lame gameplay and therefore a waste of time. Just read a book if a story is what you want without broken, cumbersome, boring back-burner gameplay wasting your time. Like, VTM:B is one of the codex's top RPGs. It's a wonderful experience for its secondary elements, but it's primary...it plays like shit the majority of the time. Not terrible gameplay, it's still engaging and worthwhile on some level, but clearly needed a lot more time and focus.
     
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  12. Squidhead Educated

    Squidhead
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    Just play Chess.
     
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  13. Multi-headed Cow Magister

    Multi-headed Cow
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    That's ultimately true, but introspection's always a good thing. That's how you differentiate between "Skyrim is a great RPG" and "I like having a beer and letting my eyes glaze over while playing Skyrim". You can reach both conclusions by enjoying Skyrim but the reason you're having fun playing it could differ. It doesn't much matter from a personal perspective if you don't figure out why you like something, but if you want to talk about videogames with random assholes online it's helpful to have a sense of where your feelings come from. And it does have the benefit of giving you a better sense of what games you haven't played that you might like if you know what specifically about games you enjoy.

    For example, I'd say I like Diablo 3 more than Diablo 2. I played Diablo 2 when it came out (Technically a bit after it came out because I bought it around release and then it didn't like my DVD drive since DVD drives were fairly new at the time so it wouldn't install properly, but since this was in the past I was able to take it back to the store and return it and bought Deus Ex instead. Then later bought the battle chest with LoD and everything was fine) and I've played a lot of it over the years, but it can't hold a candle to the amount of Diablo 3 I've played despite the popular opinion that it's casual bullshit. And it IS casual bullshit. But for something like Diablo the main reason I play it is to zone out and pick up treasure and relax, and Diablo 3 is miles better than D2 and any other action RPG for being able to zone out and click shit. Sure as hell not saying all ARPGs should be like that but I found I have dramatically more fun the less attention I pay to games like that and just put on some music and relax.
     
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  14. v01 Novice

    v01
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    Sounds like you're tired out from resource management games. Maybe it's time for you to embrace the Lode Runner.

    As for myself, well I avoid playing the 'hunger gauge, thirst gauge, stamina gauge' type games when I have a lot of things going on in my personal life. 'Interoperability' is the big word for this thread.
     
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  15. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
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    Simple gameplay can still be good gameplay.
     
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  16. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    The more complex and arcane it is, the better.

    Can't think of anything more incline than having to stand facing a specific direction during a thunderstorm on a specific day of the month while chanting an obscure prayer found in the depths of a forgotten dungeon to the minor deity of hammers in order to enchant my mallet of molepopping.
     
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  17. Wunderbar Arcane

    Wunderbar
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    Simple != shallow. In fact, a lot of overly complex and system-bloated RPGs could've used some streamlining.
     
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  18. Atlet Savant

    Atlet
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    You are drinking and without energy. Need to start a good and healthy diet ASAP and start exercising too.
     
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  19. gaussgunner Arcane

    gaussgunner
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    I think I catch your drift. I've never played Planescape but all that mystical existential drama sounds kind of pretentious. I just want to slay the enemy. I'm more into shit games like Jeff Vogels remakes and retreads, Shadowruns, Dragon's Dogma. They're not great RPGs but at least they're decent video games.
     
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  20. Morgoth Arcane Patron

    Morgoth
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    Feeling guilty about games lol.
     
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  21. what am i doing Arcane

    what am i doing
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    I do prefer games that are more straightforward, and where the challenge is derived from something direct, usually mechanical skill (action games), or ability to multi-task / keep track of things (RTS). I'm not a fan of gameplay systems where the challenge comes from doing a ton of theorycrafting to hypothesise the best build. I can still enjoy the games that have those systems, but it's generally not for the gameplay and I'll usually just look up a build online rather than put myself through the gigantic waste of time that is theorycrafting. That's not really a new thing for me, personally - I never enjoyed dealing with theorycrafting and often played games in spite of rather than because of it, but I would say I'm less likely to put up with it these days.

    I do have to make a distinction, though, between games where your build is important and there is some complexity to it, but you can develop your build through quick ingame testing, vs ones where the same is true regarding importance and complexity but you have to do it outside of the game or through extremely repetitive ingame testing. If a game lets you rapidly alter your build / rebuild your character, so you can test builds quickly and easily, I don't mind that at all. If the game has a "commit your points / skills / etc now, and then they're fixed or extremely tedious to rebuild" system, that's just a pain in the ass and I don't really care to deal with it.
     
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  22. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

    MadMaxHellfire
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    simple? yes, why not.
    shallow? hell no.

    but cheer up, it could be worse: i've always been for complex games with lots of numbers and moving parts, one of the first experiences i had after switching from my (dying) amiga to pc was master of orion 3 and i was all "yeah, this is the kind of quantity of numbers i look for". fast forward 20 years later, i strove for more and more complex game while games became simpler and simpler.
    i've been entertaining myself lately with mechwarrior online. a decent amount of numbers.
     
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  23. spectre Arcane

    spectre
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    Oct 26, 2008
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    4,492
    When you're young, you can afford to waste time and waddle through shit in search for diamonds in the rough.
    With old age comes the realization - do I really want to spend the remaining shreds of my free time on this shit?

    A lot of complexity these days is just there for complexity's sake. Information overload, shit interface, poor or no tutorials.
    I've caught myself a few times thinking about some of the recent games - is this actually as shitty as it looks, or am I missing something?
    With simpler gameplay, you immediately see what's what, and it either works for you or not.
    Either the devs are competent enough to make something out of it that's more than the sum of its parts, or not.

    Now, I like to believe that my entertainment passes some sort of (imaginary and subjective) standard,
    that I probably won't appreciate any of the recent Assbandit's Creed or the recent popamole shooter,
    but sometimes there's this game that makes me break the "no fucking early access shit" rule, because it just works.
    Scratches that itch you had, or didn't even know you had. I had this recently with Hardspace Shipbreakers.
     
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  24. Riddler Arcane Patron

    Riddler
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    Bubbles In Memoria
    As I age I increasingly feel like I made erroneous evaluations of what made things good when I was younger. I used to think that "lots of text" = good writing, but now I can't stand trudging through the shit that is the walls ESL fanfic writing that is many games, most recently WotR, before that in a slightly differently in Pillars and Numa. Brevity really is the soul of wit.

    Similarly, there being a wealth of systems doesn't really matter either if they aren't used in any competent manner by the encounter designer/the AI. It doesn't matter in WotR or Deadfire that there are a billion spells, combat maneuvers, damage types etc. when the gameplay doesn't change at all and the difficulty level is in the basement.

    If I'm expected to read a fucking novel sized rulebook to "understand" a game then there better be a some engaging gameplay on the other side (which there usually isn't) and if I'm supposed to read a novel of text then it better some decent prose and some decently poignant point.

    Essentially, don't waste my time!
     
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  25. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    Shallow's wank, but simple can be great.

    I don't think Shadowrun Returns is particularly deep or complex and, whilst Dragonfall is definitely better, I still really enjoyed it.
     
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