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CD Projekt's CYBERPUNK 2077 Release Thread - Concerned For The Consoles

Discussion in 'CD Projekt Red' started by Sam Ecorners, Dec 10, 2020.

  1. Twiglard Prophet Sad Loser

    Twiglard
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    People like you are the problem. You keep discussing the nonsense that's been established popamole and decline. Discuss something meaningful like worldbuilding, factions, C&C, quests, lore. You wallow in decline.
     
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  2. Slaver1 Learned

    Slaver1
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    Went back to my heavily modded Witcher 3 and I instantly find it more captivating and immersive than CP2077 despite already sinking hundreds of hours into W3 in prior playthroughs.

    Suddenly I'm leaning forward in my chair interested in the conversations my protagonist (a better player character than any piece of shit we can create in 2077) is having for the hundredth time. I'm involved in a setting that calls to me as opposed to one that leaves me cold. The physics system, which I used to think was slow and stodgy, creates plausibility around Geralt at all times while I can't help feeling like a discombobulated floating camera called V when I play CP2077. Also, the characterization, combat, story and sidequests are all MUCH better in W3.

    Neither are great role-playing games per se, we admonish both with ferocity on the 'Dex, but behind closed doors our pricks have remained rock hard for the Witcher 3 for years, while CP2077 can elicit only a confused twitch (at best) from the seat of our pants.

    Witcher 3>>RDR2>CyberPunk2077.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
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  3. Zer0wing Cipher

    Zer0wing
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    Place and Sasquatch. Royce I guess. I don't consider Woodman a boss personally.
     
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  4. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    I'll venture a guess that the writing direction had suffered a setback in CP77 vs what it was in Witcher 3. In that monster hunt quest example I gave earlier, everything is featured - the quest premise is rooted in the history and ethics of the world, reflects the impact of current events on the region, and demonstrates the gray morality which is a core feature of the Witcher's "dark", "serious", "grim", "subverted, etc. take on fantasy.

    In CP77 we mostly hear or read about the state of the world and of its history but it's generally not integrated with the same skill into quests. It's a bit like in the Pillars of Eternity games - you read about how things are, or characters tell you stories, instead of just acting within the world according to the circumstances and the realities. These tales you hear and read never become "in-game reality".

    There are quests in CP77 that are exceptions - I keep thinking about the much cited Peralez' line - but my impression is they are lost like tears in the rain of mundane "choomba goes boom-boom" tasks.

    It is possible that *I* spoiled the mood of the game for myself by playingt too much of the braindead side content, yes, that is a possibility. Yet the responsibility falls on the people who saturated the game world with braindead side content that the player goes through mechanically and that is disconnected from the surrounding world.

    On a superficial level the Witcher 3 equivalent would be monsters spawning in the forests, the packs of dogs, etc. On a less superficial level - none of those random spawns had their very own icons on the map.

    An icon on the map tells the player "there is something of interest here". Yet in CP77 the player keeps going to those icons and there is never anything of true interest. And so frustration sets in.

    People have been comparing police subcon work icons with bandit camps and monster nests. Apart from the few "organized crime activity" icons, the majority of the instances of this activity have nothing on Witcher 3's bandit camps or monster nests, which always had some context and a reason to be where they were.

    The gigs in CP77 don't have an equivalent from Witcher 3, but they are forgettable - "Hey V, I need you to..." - bang-bang-bang, or something that eventually devolves to that - "Preem work V!"

    The game would have been better off and more atmospheric without half of those activities, and can still be greatly improved if their icons can be made to be hidden.
     
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  5. Twiglard Prophet Sad Loser

    Twiglard
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    Side quests are interesting, especially the main side quest lines (and Peralez, reminds me of PKD novels; I should reread Confessions of a Crap Artist and Counter-Clock World).

    Writing is mature, and not in the "dark and gritty" sense. Some characters are more developed as people. TW1/3 characters have traits like "likes to boast", "a SOB, but a patriot", or at best "a toxic controlling bitch". TW4 characters have more well-defined human traits. In that aspect the writing is better.

    Judy: neurotic; family has a history of mood disorders; raised in poverty; a downer introvert; finds solace as an "artist" making emotion dispensers; underachiever.
    Johnny: a full-on narcissist and sociopath; can only self-actualize by having groupies and "saving the world"; messiah complex; egocentric; significant character development.
    Panam: dependable; loyal; abandonment issues; feminine -- talks about emotions even when it changes nothing; wants irrational things; doesn't seek to dominate or be dominated; not stronk wombyn.
    Kerry: feelings of guilt and inferiority; Daddy Silverhand didn't tell him he loves him often enough; decadent; ennui

    That level of sophistication can't be found in previous Witcher games.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
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  6. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I'm enjoying Cyberpunk combat way more. Witcher 3 combat sucks. YMMV.
     
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  7. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Okay.
    Worldbuilding - well, its probably the best designed and imagined city in computer games. Interactions with NPCs are minimal, but that was to be expected after Witcher3. Driving a bike beats horseback riding.
    Factions - certainly a huge missed opportunity.
    C&C - there is some. Mostly shallow, like in most cRPGs.
    Quests - some are good, some so-so. Side content is rarely engaging. Can usually be approached in multiple paths, parts skipped or be optional. Not bad overall. Sadly nothing quite like the Bloody Baron quest line.


    Don't care THAT much about those things. Am more passionate about character building and gameplay. Games are for fun, after all. Its a nice shooter with RPG elements, great setting and fantastic graphics, as far as I'm concerned.
    Certainly the shooty-shooty combat is far superior to the bad swordplay in Witcher 2-3.
     
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  8. Zer0wing Cipher

    Zer0wing
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    The game is already too short. Removing the one-dimensional gigs will expose this fact even more so. And further removing unnecessary parts of main quest (Hellman, Takemura for the most part of his quest) will make it an Early-Access title.
     
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  9. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    I'd argue there are many sophisticated characters - besides Geralt and his two main sorceresses, there are Dijkstra, Roche, Vesemir, Kiera, Olgierd, Emhyr. As for messed up people/beings, Witcher 3 has that in abundance too, but it's usually the villians - the baron, the little bastard, Olgierd (again), the plague maiden, Radovid, etc.

    Yes, Witcher 3 is primarily a story about "Geralt being Geralt in an open world setting" and in neither of the three Witcher games does anyone evolve as a character. I never felt it was missing though.

    Ironically in CP77 where they made this effort with Johnny, it feels like the story is too compressed temporally for transformations of characters to feel authentic. But I should play more of the main quest before pronouncing anything.
     
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  10. Commissar Draco Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar Patron

    Commissar Draco
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    Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
    [​IMG]

    This one Comrade and Yes would*. :positive:

    *before someone point the man jaw to Commissar... All people are women when lying face down.
     
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  11. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    Important correction - the meaningful part is too short. I've spent around 90 of my 100 hours clearing Northside and Santo Domingo of side content.
     
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  12. Naraya Prophet

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Twiglard Prophet Sad Loser

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    They're sophisticated in the storytelling sense, but not in the sense that you could enumerate any non-surface-level traits. At best it's like:

    Yennefer: ambitious, toxic, abusive, controlling
    Triss: tender and caring
    Hjallmar: hot-headed; full of bravado
    Talar: swears a lot; swell guy all around
    Roche: serious; loves Temeria

    These are barely even personality traits!

    I mean, there's more of a personality in Yennefer in that shitty TV show (played by a gypsy-peacock monstrosity with tasteless makeup, no less) than in the TW3 cast. That's saying something.

    She looks like she's over forty. V must be real desperate on that one.

    Also no one is commenting on V having a wigger accent.
     
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  14. Slaver1 Learned

    Slaver1
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    Sidequests are what differentiated Witcher 3 from other open world RPG games in the first place. People started looking at games like DAI which came out the year before and realized how tired unpersonalised MMO-esqe collectathon/kill X quests had become. Now we have that in droves all over again. The fixers template for providing quests in CP2077 is super lame. I'm not interested in reading a shitty shard to TRY and add backstory to the soulless quest you guys are shitting out.
     
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  15. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    I agree, with the caveat that you can find bits of dialogue or second-source info that flesh out the aspects that these characters don't lay out in front of Geralt. But yes, you don't see them act out a wide range of themselves during the game. That's in part because they are featured in specific and extraordinary circumstances which necessitate Geralt being present, hence a specific side to these characters needs to be shown. It doesn't make them less believable though.

    Compared to CP77, that game's cast of secondary characters reveal much more of their personal stuff to V, but that's because there is context in which they can do that - they are shown both in extraordinary and in calm situations. Then again, it feels to me like all relationships develop too fast. One example out of many - an NCPD detective like Rivers, functioning in the environment that is NC and NCPD, developing trust for V in the course of one ingame day is not really plausible, even compared to a B-movie plot. This touches on the problem that V has no backstory within the world whereas Geralt has a solid backstory both with the world's characters and with the player himself.

    On a sidenote, and somewhat ironically, from these explanations it seems like characters in Witcher 3 are not shown as so multifaceted because they are introduced in the context of the "action-adventure", whereas in the game dubbed "action-adventure" secondary characters are more developed and more of the drama revolves around them.

    On another sidenote, Geralt is the uncrowned kingmaker that influenced the history of the world. If it wasn't for him Emhyr would not have been saved from the curse, therefore would not have won the throne and the Nilfgaardian empire would not have steamrolled the Northern kingdoms. I wonder if this thought would have crossed Geralt's mind while riding through burned villages, weeping women and children, and men hanged on trees.

    I end up taking Geralt more seriously, and with V I go "I'm just here to be amused, now you go jump from that ledge onto the glass ceiling". Ironically, the story where we were supposed to be "absolutely totally immersed in the character (tm)" is the one where I end up caring less about the protagonist.
     
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  16. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    I agree with the rest, but especially this. Like I've said before, I dream of an interview where someone dares to ask the question was that the original vision of fixers or the result of cuts. I doubt anyone would go out of their way to ask though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
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  17. Mefi Cipher

    Mefi
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    Something which really helps with creating the characters in Cyberpunk for me is the animation of them. Not just the faces either. You get a real sense of Judy from how she peers out from beneath her fringe and almost hides at times in her own chair. Panam has a fantastic eye roll she does with her whole body. While Evelyn paces about chain smoking not only showing her tension but helping build the tension in the scene too. I think removing the third person cuts to V in eg conversations is a real shame and you also see the lack of further thought in how to make V 'alive' in the game world by her physical options in dialogue typically being 'press F to sit' or 'press F to stand'. V isn't a character you can wholly own as a player but neither does s/he have that feedback you can get with Geralt's animations while holding a conversation. The rub of the head, the furrowed brow, the hand on chin etc.
     
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  18. Koolz Novice

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    I am in talks with the music department. Director of music. This is on the back burner shall we say.

    As they have a lot to go over!!! Music is is being added to the list.

    This is my last post in a while.

    Hopefully when they have Cyberpunk where they want it the music will also

    be used better and new tracks created. I look at it from a film perspective.

    Good Luck Guys!
     
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  19. infidel StarInfidel Developer

    infidel
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    I don't know why people cite Peralez' line as something really good. It got cut off so quickly without any interesting resolution, I thought I was doing it wrong and consulted the online websites just to be sure. Good ol' Jensen would simply follow the investigation to find the Illuminati or rogue AI cabal or whatever it is hiding in the hole. And it's not like there was a lack of clues - the next logical step would be to jensen the main office of the security firm and have a chat with the chief whose emails you've just read on the computer in the Peralez' apartment. But instead, the line got crudely chopped off like so much in that game. Cutting corners with an axe was their motto for the past couple of years, I'd guess.
     
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  20. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    The difference between good and bad is in things you show and don't show. Peralez quest line works precisely because that you can't really do anything. It is the Lovercraftian approach. Your options are just to break their dream of being independent or let them be oblivious to it.

    If follow up was some cabal of 3 guys sitting in chair or computer face with nuke codes no one would care about this quest same reason why no one really cares about DeusEx ending but they do care about what is following up to it.
     
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  21. Twiglard Prophet Sad Loser

    Twiglard
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    In Witcher series Geralt's animations are all-too-frequently predefined poses he repeats on many occasions. See the outstretched-pointing-hand gesture that V does as well. Having more elaborate scenes is incline in c77.

    It's PKD-paranoid-cold-war-era stuff. What's not to like?

    It's Arcanum Gnomes all over. What's not to like?

    You get a phone call where he gets all unhinged and delusional. That's not the entire storyline. It meshes with Gary, the song, and the streetkid ending.

    Nah, it's as if you actually knew TNO's name. Imagination beats cold hard facts here.
     
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  22. ekrolo2 Learned

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    Yennefer's personality in the show is a complete bastardization of what she actually is but even that aside, you're ignoring a simple thing: the Witcher games are sequels to the books. The books are where the character development already happened, by Lady of the Lake, there's not much you can do with Geralt, Yennefer, Dijkstra, Ciri,...

    Geralt gets over a lot of his personal angst issues which is why in 3 he seems pretty comfortable in his own skin vs the books where being a freak REALLY gets to him, Yennefer has no reason to bitch and whine about being sterile because she made peace with this in-universe years ago and also has a daughter in Ciri so why would she even care about the sterility thing, Dijkstra was always a true patriot who fought for Redania FOR Redania's sake and never to advance himself,... The only one of the main cast who can actually develop is Triss but CDPR whitewashes a lot of her manipulative, backstabbing tendencies to keep her a viable romance choice when Geralt and Yennefer should punch her teeth out after all the shit she did against them in the books.

    Hell, one of W3s problems is feeling the need to hit some character beats that were already resolved in the books. Blood and Wine ends with Geralt basically retiring, feeling way too old for this shit anymore which is exactly what he intended to do in Lady of the Lake.
     
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  23. Bliblablubb Arcane

    Bliblablubb
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    Many missions in this game make you wonder if it is supposed to be an unsolved mystery or they simply ran out of time to continue it. Like the Lizzy Wizzy mission. I thought there would be a follow up? No? Oooookay then.

    But, a lot of things actually make more sense if you play the game a second time, with more meta knowledge. Like Garry the prophet. All his ramblings about vampires, werewolves, techno-necromancers, strange eyes, Lilith etc make a lot of sense. In a way. But by the time you could connect the dots, you are 80 hours further and don't remember shit. Sad.

    So.. that is basically what gives this game replayability? Seeing Panam and Mitch arguing in the Afterlife, witnessing Mr Blueeyes observing V and Perelez...

    Welp, something to look for when you replay the finished game in a year I guess. :obviously:
     
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  24. AwesomeButton Personally falsified the US election results Patron

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    I agree, but I think with time the repetetiveness by itself starts to give him character. His way of looking at people started growing on me.
     
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  25. infidel StarInfidel Developer

    infidel
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    My disappointment comes from how crudely the investigation part stops right after the hook. I would settle for "loose ends tied" chop-off. You really do have very clear clues of where to go next on the computer, so if feels very stupid when you receive a phone call with threats and then nothing. So I assume V decided it's really not his business, after all? If instead you went through the office, found the chief and when talking to him he suddenly dies with his brains melting or, alternatively, does not remember what the hell you're talking about, that would be a little more satisfying.

    Lovecraft actually took great care to tie up loose ends, for example, in Whisperer in Darkness, you can't photo the Mi-Go, the recordings of the voices the protagonist sends back to Akeley (or brings them with him on his visit, I don't remember), the brain in a jar disappears when the police comes. Contrast that with a) a computer loaded with emails pointing at security firm chief; b) a motherload of the experiment details in the van; c) unhinged Peralez still being unhinged and remembering shit at the end of the game. Very shoddy job for the all-powerful Illuminati.

    Mainly, the sloppiness of execution by the quest designer who did not bother to properly finish it. I like the themes, sure.

    I remember that and it highlights how you, the player, have literally done nothing after finding the secret room with a computer and a van full of clues on how to go on. How does that feel satisfying to you at that point?
     
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