CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[rusty_shackleford]

https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-c...s-everything-is-political-including-his-game/

Cyberpunk creator Mike Pondsmith says 'everything is political,' including his game​

"NOOOO KEEP POLITICS OUT OF IT YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE I DO!!!!!"

 

[Heroic Liberator]

oh wow the in-universe politics just happen to mirror the politics of the writers that's so crazy hahahaha how dare you bring real-world politics into this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have to detach the author from the work. Doesn't matter what the author wanted to highlight with it politically if the work in itself is a neat setting that serves as a good narrative device for storytelling (hence why you yourself like Roddenberry's Star Trek despite not being some idealistic pinko).

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You have to detach the author from the work

no
death of the author is more stupid libtard bullshit you retarded commie

 

[Heroic Liberator]

You have to detach the author from the work

no
death of the author is more stupid libtard bullshit you retarded commie

Ok, brainlet.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You have to detach the author from the work

no
death of the author is more stupid libtard bullshit you retarded commie

Ok, brainlet.

death of the author was literally about bigots who allowed authors to define what their own work means rather than letting the work simply decide for itself on its own
if you agree with it, it means you have a room temperature IQ

 

[Kjaska]

quoting me one paragraph of one book, an ad-hominem by some cunt, and a statement by the guy who DIDN'T make the game we are discussing doesn't prove that the game - which this thread is about - is inherently political.

Can you point me to some instances of political agenda in the game being pushed on the player?
Did you even play the game?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

quoting me one paragraph of one book, an ad-hominem by some cunt, and a statement by the guy who DIDN'T make the game we are discussing doesn't prove that the game - which this thread is about - is inherently political.

"STOP QUOTING THE WORK THE GAME IS BASED ON!"
g*rmoids, everyone

Can you point me to some instances of political agenda in the game being pushed on the player?

I already said the devs were too afraid to offend everyone and therefore the game appeals to nobody but smoothbrains who go "WOW NIGHTCITY COOL!"(you)

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You have to detach the author from the work

no
death of the author is more stupid libtard bullshit you retarded commie

Ok, brainlet.

death of the author was literally about bigots who allowed authors to define what their own work means rather than letting the work simply decide for itself on its own
if you agree with it, it means you have a room temperature IQ

oh yes and we can't forget that it builds upon the critical work of the guy with AIDS who literally raped children.
hmmm... I wonder why these people advocate for separating work from the author... hmmmmmmm.....

 

[Kjaska]

I already said the devs were too afraid to offend everyone and therefore the game appeals to nobody but smoothbrains who go "WOW NIGHTCITY COOL!"

You can't prove your own point, I get it. Please chimp out about politics in the other threads in the future.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I already said the devs were too afraid to offend everyone and therefore the game appeals to nobody but smoothbrains who go "WOW NIGHTCITY COOL!"

You can't prove your own point, I get it. Please chimp out about politics in the other threads in the future.

Nope, I'm just fine right here. Put me on ignore if you don't like it, but I'm discussing the source material the game itself is based on which is relevant to the topic at hand you smoothbrain.

 

[MuffinBun]

Imagine reading this and going "yeah, this is some non-political material I'm reading right here"

"The only leveler was technology, as the masses used[...]"

 

[Heroic Liberator]

death of the author was literally about bigots who allowed authors to define what their own work means rather than letting the work simply decide for itself on its own

Doesn't matter what the author means by his work, it matters what the audience makes of it.

And in the case of fictional settings, what matters most is internal consistency. The author might've wanted to portray a world whose politics he eithers approves of or condemns, but as long as the world itself is well constructed (a.i. being a believable world once you take its fictional contrivances for granted, such as certain kinds of technology being invented or history somehow going in a particular way) then each person that engages with it can enjoy it for different reasons and in different ways. One man's utopia is another's dystopia, so one guy might dread a particular setting and be attracted to it precisely because of its horrifying nature while another might be drooling over it and wishing it were real - both can enjoy the setting despite doing it for the exact opposite reasons. And a third guy might not even care about pronouncing a value judgement and just enjoys it either because he likes the intricacies of its worldbuilding or because it has cool aesthetics.

 

[MuffinBun]

The real root of cyberpunk is the idea of "plucky band of rebels" that was promoted after WW2, specifically to juxtapose against the ideal of a unified social order promoted by Fascism (and Communism too). This speaks to the other ongoing thread about when Woke started. The "plucky band of rebels" trope saturates just about all product intensively since WW2, often combined with the plucky band as an alternative sort of "family" comprised of diverse elements. (The starkest form was ofc Rebels vs. Empire in Star Wars.)

Tech dystopias weren't new, struggles against corporatism weren't new, post-apocalyptic vibes weren't new, what was new in the post-punk 80s was mixing those kinds of tropes with the "plucky band of rebels," particularly as "punky" - as living alternative lifestyles, dressing "individualistically," having dyed mohawks, etc.

That's the thing that betrays cyberpunk as a wankery that it was, instead of a serious genre. You have Pondsmith's childish understanding of technology as something that empowers the masses(to be fair, he does it to make a cool setting, not because its true, I hope), the 'fuck u dad' teens "rebelling" against the family structure, despite it being superbly advantageous to both being raised by the state, and not being raised at all. The mores being seen as an obstacle to worthwhile human relations and experiences, rather than a facilitator that it is. The omnipresent mentions of "capitalism", when the real criticism is against consumerism and consumer culture.

The fundamental characteristic of capitalism is the division between capital owners and the class deprived of capital, which defines the social existence of each of its members(ie there is a vast working class). But how often is that mentioned or elaborated on in works so eager to use the 'capitalism' label? Usually - not at all. The criticism of the rich is common, the corporations as the big bad are common; but there's nothing that would substantiate the use of that particular term - and quite often the tendency, especially in modern speech, is to use "society" and "capitalism" interchangeably(capitalism being the cool kids term). Which is a misuse - you should be pointing to something specific to that system - and poverty or existence of the upper class arent.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

You have to detach the author from the work

no
death of the author is more stupid libtard bullshit you retarded commie

Ok, brainlet.

Unrelated but can you please stick to one goddamn name dammit.

 

[gurugeorge]

The real root of cyberpunk is the idea of "plucky band of rebels" that was promoted after WW2, specifically to juxtapose against the ideal of a unified social order promoted by Fascism (and Communism too). This speaks to the other ongoing thread about when Woke started. The "plucky band of rebels" trope saturates just about all product intensively since WW2, often combined with the plucky band as an alternative sort of "family" comprised of diverse elements. (The starkest form was ofc Rebels vs. Empire in Star Wars.)

Tech dystopias weren't new, struggles against corporatism weren't new, post-apocalyptic vibes weren't new, what was new in the post-punk 80s was mixing those kinds of tropes with the "plucky band of rebels," particularly as "punky" - as living alternative lifestyles, dressing "individualistically," having dyed mohawks, etc.

That's the thing that betrays cyberpunk as a wankery that it was, instead of a serious genre. You have Pondsmith's childish understanding of technology as something that empowers the masses(to be fair, he does it to make a cool setting, not because its true, I hope), the 'fuck u dad' teens "rebelling" against the family structure, despite it being superbly advantageous to both being raised by the state, and not being raised at all. The mores being seen as an obstacle to worthwhile human relations and experiences, rather than a facilitator that it is. The omnipresent mentions of "capitalism", when the real criticism is against consumerism and consumer culture.

The fundamental characteristic of capitalism is the division between capital owners and the class deprived of capital, which defines the social existence of each of its members(ie there is a vast working class). But how often is that mentioned or elaborated on in works so eager to use the 'capitalism' label? Usually - not at all. The criticism of the rich is common, the corporations as the big bad are common; but there's nothing that would substantiate the use of that particular term - and quite often the tendency, especially in modern speech, is to use "society" and "capitalism" interchangeably(capitalism being the cool kids term). Which is a misuse - you should be pointing to something specific to that system - and poverty or existence of the upper class arent.

I think there's a good deal of Gen X resentment against the grown-up Boomer generation of their parents in the cyberpunk trope. If you think about it, the former hippies had all sold out and become the Reagan crowd, now capitalists themselves, and preaching "pull yourself up by your own boostraps" to their kids, heedless of the leg-up they'd been given by their own parents, the Great Generation. Their children must have resented being shut out that way (already having been "latchkey kids" when young). Quite often, the cyberpunk rebel is from the ruling class, knows their ways, knows the backdoors, etc.

Gen X was the first generation to experience NOT being handed down a patrimony from the previous generation, because the previous generation had been trained in "me, me, me." And I think the resentment against "the system" in cyberpunk is a bit like that. It's resentment against being shut out of something that should rightfully have been yours.

 

[Absinthe]

Unless you're a big fan of the cyberpunk genre, I see no real reason to play this.

I'd say if you're a big fan of the cyberpunk genre, that's another reason to avoid this. This is like a really shitty GTA knockoff calling itself cyberpunk just because it has hairdos and cyberware. It doesn't really do shit with the usual cyberpunk themes or fulfill the cyberpunk aesthetic.

What are the themes it's not exploring? I'm not even saying it's exploring them well, but your claim it's not doing anything with the usual cyberpunk themes or the aesthetic, is a take even more smooth-brained than your Shinning take, and I'm genuinely curious of why you would say that.

The usual. Rage against the machine, poverty, societal alienation, social decay, how the system impersonally fucks people over, abuse of authority, corruption, rejection of consumerism and commodification, the surveillance state, urbanization, etc. Some of these themes are present, but more in a superficial, backdrop way. They're not really being explored.

fuck politics

Congratulations, you're an idiot. Cyberpunk without politics is nothing but superficial trash. Sure, cyberpunk shouldn't be used as a vehicle for modern-day politics, but it has its own political leanings. You might as well rant about how Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri should be a nonpolitical game while you're at it.

game explores the theme of identity heavily with main quest, mayor quest, delamain quest, kerry eurodyne quest and others

Yeah, it's cyberpunk done by SJWs, which is basically fail. Identity is the one theme they're into.

absinthe is probably a cuckwell-gervais watcher, who indited the entire game because "it didn't add anything original to the genre".

Legit don't know who you're talking about.

 

[Kjaska]

Thinking that just because a piece of art/entertainment doesn't feature politics, that it is therefor superficial and low quality is the epitome of a mid-wit take. Your points are so mediocre, I find it difficult to even respond. Man is not motivated by politics. He is motivated by much more personal and primal desires.

And no, Identity isn't the domain of SJWs. You're conflating Identity Politics with it, but that's not surprising.

 

[MuffinBun]

Gen X was the first generation to experience NOT being handed down a patrimony from the previous generation, because the previous generation had been trained in "me, me, me." And I think the resentment against "the system" in cyberpunk is a bit like that. It's resentment against being shut out of something that should rightfully have been yours.

These are all good observations. That story is significant, tragic, and worth telling. It is real, and could find an interesting expression in a genre or a setting. Cyberpunk, I think, contains that previous episode, done by boomers and as seen by boomers. It's their egoism and arrogance that you described so well that forms the basis of rebellion in cyberpunk. That's why it is so childish and nonsensical at times. Only great prosperity allows for continuous expressions of nonsense; as success is a given and there's no punishment for failure. The signature of Gen X is irony, atheism, etc.

Or it is the rebellion of the 60., which is even harder to understand when taken at face value. If anything, those should have fought alongside their families, not against them. That was the time to solidify the gains of workers-turned-middle-class. By conceptually merging them into one movement you could say that this[60's + boomers] were the people who were awarded prosperity and cultural liberty by the system, because instead of destroying it, they turned on their parents and their class.

Extreme arrogance, selfishness, almost comical narrow mindness that characterized the boomers is something very distinct. I see the exact same thing among some groups that consider themselves the winners of the current moment.

 

[MuffinBun]

Thinking that just because a piece of art/entertainment doesn't feature politics, that it is therefor superficial and low quality is the epitome of a mid-wit take.

If anything, it's the opposite. To an extent stories should be experienced in a state of superior control of self, which includes that kind of divine detachment from everyday stuff. They should also help to evoke that state(like in catharsis). From that follows that they are not a place for political hot takes. A good story revolves around something fundamental to life - mortality, bravery, purpose.

But that's also the issue of different understanding of what constitutes the political. When Absinthe mentions politics as something substantial, in the context of Alpha Centauri, he basically means politics for people who are free. So considerations as to which way of organizing the polity would be the most beneficial to its (free) denizens, who expect and enforce that state of things. This is somewhat good, and its good when a storyteller has an understanding of those; every human enterprise relates to those, and not every story has to be profound and fundamental only. But when I say politics is rather bad, what I mean is dependent people politics. Events and characters skewed because of political drivel, stories not for storytelling's sake, but to advance oneself by displays of orthodoxy; so mostly polluting the medium by purposefully doing contemporary politics. Obviously there are "people" who will claim that making a non-political story is some kind of a (meta)political act or a stance. Those people are obsessed tards.

The other thing is writing out of distaste or fear, about that specific thing those refer to; this is still legitimate imo, but lowers the standard of a work in itself a bit. As an activity, and in some different ways, it might be more worthwhile.

 

[Yosharian]

Not having Rusty on ignore is certainly an interesting way to experience the Codex

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I speak only the truth, not my fault if smoothbrains think cyberpunk isn't inherently political because they like certain aspects of it.

The funnier part is actual commie posters pretending it isn't political and smoothbrains actually agreeing with them. Useful idiots indeed.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Not having Rusty on ignore is certainly an interesting way to experience the Codex

Eh he's fine.

 

[Absinthe]

Kjaska, I have no idea how you managed to sink even lower but congratulations. Remember to tip your fedora aggressively too, since clearly you think smugness is an adequate substitute for wit. Anyway, some genres flirt with politics by their nature. Cyberpunk themes heavily revolve around questions of society, authority, freedom, and control as well as the prerogatives and needs of the individual, and that's when it's not getting on the nose about fighting technocrats. If you make a cyberpunk story and don't engage any of this shit, you're basically left with drivel that masturbates about the coolness of cyberware and a generic rebelliousness that isn't about anything other than the aesthetic of a rebel.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Cyberpunk themes heavily revolve around questions of society, authority, freedom, and control as well as the prerogatives and needs of the individual, and that's when it's not getting on the nose about fighting technocrats

Am I right that all this is the "punk" part of cyberpunk?

 

[Absinthe]

Honestly, cyberpunk existed before people called it that. Sometimes cyberpunk is closer to film noir than anything that resembles "punk" exactly. You can call that the "punk" part if you're hung up about the cyberpunk label, but the "cyber" part also plays into it. How technology and society impact each other is also a part of the genre.