Editorial Chris Avellone: What the Fuck Happened to Bloodlines 2?

[Raghar]

Word budget? It's RPG there shouldn't be really word budget.

 

[Dycedarg]

If i remember that also was the case in Obsidian during their POE1 era.

His writing was reduced (not cut) from Pillars because he significantly went over his allotted word budgets for those characters. He could have taken on more companions or even been narrative lead, but he didn't want to.

Really? I thought everyone wanted George Ziets as narrative lead, but Feargus decided to give the job to Fentesmaker. Was Avellone ever considered for the job?

 

[HeroMarine]

If i remember that also was the case in Obsidian during their POE1 era.

His writing was reduced (not cut) from Pillars because he significantly went over his allotted word budgets for those characters. He could have taken on more companions or even been narrative lead, but he didn't want to.

Really? I thought everyone wanted George Ziets as narrative lead, but Feargus decided to give the job to Fentesmaker. Was Avellone ever considered for the job?

Probably not as both Faergus and Sawyer hated his guts.

 

[J_C]

Word budget? It's RPG there shouldn't be really word budget.

Torment Numanuma proves otherwise.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Word budget? It's RPG there shouldn't be really word budget.

Torment Numanuma proves otherwise.

Kinda depends on how focused the writing is. Numanuma would have been mostly shit even if it was shorter and the writing more concise.

The whole premise boiled down to "here is something random, now i use words to explain this without any context"

 

[Roguey]

Word budget? It's RPG there shouldn't be really word budget.

They have localization costs to consider (and also only so much time and people devoted to scripting and fixing inevitable scripting bugs). Fargo had to lecture Chris back in 1999 because he blew up Torment's localization costs and apparently that was a lesson that never sank in.

Really? I thought everyone wanted George Ziets as narrative lead, but Feargus decided to give the job to Fentesmaker. Was Avellone ever considered for the job?

Avellone could have had it if he wanted it, but he didn't want it (hence why he said to give it to Ziets, a guy who wasn't even an Obsidian employee at the time). In a reply directly to me he explained why he refused any kind of leadership position at Obsidian on any project that Feargus would meddle in https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...archies-and-more.121588/page-136#post-5600643

 

[Raghar]

Games can stay english only, and they are playable just fine. Localizations are just optional.

 

[Raghar]

Torment Numanuma proves otherwise.

The biggest two problems of that game were combat system and limiting level progression by chapter.

Writing was disjointed and all over place, but at least it was readable text that was filling the gap.

 

[Reever]

Games can stay english only, and they are playable just fine. Localizations are just optional.

Obviously it's an increase in sales apparently sometimes even up to 30%. Some shitworld countries don't have a lot of English speaking people and as much as Codex hates it, you have to reach as big of an audience as you can.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Games can stay english only, and they are playable just fine. Localizations are just optional.

Obviously it's an increase in sales apparently sometimes even up to 30%. Some shitworld countries don't have a lot of English speaking people and as much as Codex hates it, you have to reach as big of an audience as you can.

I can confirm this. Germany, for example, is quite the big market and localisations are necessary to tap into it. While a lot germans are capable of understanding english on a general level the efficacy needed to read texts like in Numanuma is probably to much for most. Also germans are used to have localisations for everything so a lot of people just do not engage with content that is not in german.

 

[Roguey]

Games can stay english only, and they are playable just fine. Localizations are just optional.

Not to a company trying to make as much money as it can. Also, French, German, and Spanish translations were a specific stretch goal for Eternity so they were obligated to deliver them.

 

[Dycedarg]

Avellone could have had it if he wanted it, but he didn't want it (hence why he said to give it to Ziets, a guy who wasn't even an Obsidian employee at the time). In a reply directly to me he explained why he refused any kind of leadership position at Obsidian on any project that Feargus would meddle in https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...archies-and-more.121588/page-136#post-5600643

I remember reading some posts of Avellone's may of rage, but I forgot how bad was his relation with Feargus. Not only do they despise each other, but what Chris describes isn't much different from intentional sabotage of the company's projects.

Kinda depends on how focused the writing is. Numanuma would have been mostly shit even if it was shorter and the writing more concise.

If you think your writers are completely retarded, it's better to keep the word count as low as possible. It's the difference between a bad forum post and an epic like My Immortal.

 

[Jedi Exile]

Kinda sad that Bloodlines 2 is dead. I think Camarilla set this up: the Elders are still mad at Troika for making the original one, and they pulled the strings to kill the sequel.

 

[Raghar]

Games can stay english only, and they are playable just fine. Localizations are just optional.

Not to a company trying to make as much money as it can. Also, French, German, and Spanish translations were a specific stretch goal for Eternity so they were obligated to deliver them.

But this is basically just a company greed. Supply and demand, if people wanna play game in different language than world wide language english. Fans should translate it themselves (and release pirated version with theirs own translation, proper hand made translation takes time, and the game already sold all copies in theirs country.) I actually prefer Sengoku Rance fan translation over original. It felt more juicy and the characters had personality. Official English translation is grammatically correct translation of Japanese text.

Pillars promised translation into additional 3 major languages. They should calculate costs, and they shouldn't promise if these translations were not viable. PoE had million of these "watcher" texts that were completely not part of story. Yet, somehow that was less problematic than 300 pages more words? Decent translators are not that expensive. Voice localization cost more, but... Sidequests could be unvoiced for budget reasons, and people would understand it. And, when RPG is more about text than action, like PoE, voice acting just gets into the way.

Profits? We seen in Wasteland 3 what happens when corporate greed gets into way of artistic expression.

 

[Roguey]

PoE had million of these "watcher" texts that were completely not part of story. Yet, somehow that was less problematic than 300 pages more words?

The backers paid quite a bit of money to get those words in.

 

[Lexx]

Don't remind me of that watcher text bullshit. What a waste of time and resources.

 

[mondblut]

Games can stay english only, and they are playable just fine. Localizations are just optional.

Localizations exist so that people who can speak english can make a good living at the expense of those who cannot.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Localization is a complete waste of money. Anyone capable of buying an rpg can speak American already.

 

[Tyranicon]

I'm honestly surprised that in the 17ish years since Bloodlines was released, there hasn't been a single new, good vampire RPG in the market. The only one that comes close is, what? Vampyr?

Shit, if it's a niche that needs filling, I might jump on it.

 

[The_Mask]

Localization is a complete waste of money. Anyone capable of buying an rpg can speak American already.

There are some markets where localization can help a lot.

Also... because of how the Commonwealth works, British English is preferred over American English.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm honestly surprised that in the 17ish years since Bloodlines was released, there hasn't been a single new, good vampire RPG in the market. The only one that comes close is, what? Vampyr?

Shit, if it's a niche that needs filling, I might jump on it.

There's the bloodlust games which have been called decent by codexers who played them iirc.

 

[mondblut]

Localization is a complete waste of money.

That's called "redistribution"

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Localization is a complete waste of money. Anyone capable of buying an rpg can speak American already.

There are some markets where localization can help a lot.

Also... because of how the Commonwealth works, British English is preferred over American English.

oi dat vampyr bruv cannit cross wa'ah

 

[Grunker]

 

[The_Mask]

The only one that comes close is, what? Vampyr?

Vampyr is complete garbage.

Does the 2020 Blood Rayne count?

On a more serious note: The Castlevania games.