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Class X vs Class Y; which is better and why?
- Thread starter Hobo Elf
- Start date
PorkaMorka
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 5,090
Voted rogue.
If you ever play a game with well implemented rogues, it's incredibly fun, especially if you get to kill other players with them (or at least have a live DM). And if a game ever lets you freaking steal from other players? It's so ridiculously fun. Stealth is also an extremely fun ability, and being a little bit squishy keeps you on your toes.
But rogues are often victimized by poor game design and end up overshadowed by the other classes. Probably the best gameplay potential of any class, but only rarely done well in CRPGs.
Clerics are awesome, but can also be victimized by poor game design where they end up as heal bitches. But as bit of a hybrid class, they have some of the most interesting gameplay in a party setting and thematically, they're superb, especially if you get to root out heresy.
Clerics are getting corrupted lately though, unless they worship evil and/or foreign gods they need to stick to blunt weapons.
Fighters, not much needs to be said about this classic archetype. They're the line holders and the backbone of your party. I prefer to have three or four.
Rules don't make them as interesting as they could be much of the time though, as weapon modeling tends to be very simplified and boring, when it could be really interesting if they took the effectiveness of each weapon type vs each armor into more consideration, as well as the defensive effects of each weapon.
Not the most exciting to play solo, but I always want 3-5 in my party.
Wizards however, ruin everything and shouldn't exist as PCs in their classic form. At lower levels, everything is based around protecting the 4 hp wizard, at higher levels they tend to get so overpowered that they overshadow the other classes significantly.
Wizards should be rare NPC villains, arcane casters in the party should be more well balanced and thus wouldn't need to be limited to robes and a stick and d4 hit dice.
If you ever play a game with well implemented rogues, it's incredibly fun, especially if you get to kill other players with them (or at least have a live DM). And if a game ever lets you freaking steal from other players? It's so ridiculously fun. Stealth is also an extremely fun ability, and being a little bit squishy keeps you on your toes.
But rogues are often victimized by poor game design and end up overshadowed by the other classes. Probably the best gameplay potential of any class, but only rarely done well in CRPGs.
Clerics are awesome, but can also be victimized by poor game design where they end up as heal bitches. But as bit of a hybrid class, they have some of the most interesting gameplay in a party setting and thematically, they're superb, especially if you get to root out heresy.
Clerics are getting corrupted lately though, unless they worship evil and/or foreign gods they need to stick to blunt weapons.
Fighters, not much needs to be said about this classic archetype. They're the line holders and the backbone of your party. I prefer to have three or four.
Rules don't make them as interesting as they could be much of the time though, as weapon modeling tends to be very simplified and boring, when it could be really interesting if they took the effectiveness of each weapon type vs each armor into more consideration, as well as the defensive effects of each weapon.
Not the most exciting to play solo, but I always want 3-5 in my party.
Wizards however, ruin everything and shouldn't exist as PCs in their classic form. At lower levels, everything is based around protecting the 4 hp wizard, at higher levels they tend to get so overpowered that they overshadow the other classes significantly.
Wizards should be rare NPC villains, arcane casters in the party should be more well balanced and thus wouldn't need to be limited to robes and a stick and d4 hit dice.
Clockwork Knight
Arcane
^weeaboo detected
enjoy your kamas and shurikens
yeah, they're p. cool
enjoy your kamas and shurikens
yeah, they're p. cool
Murk
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2008
- Messages
- 13,459
Are we talking D&D spawned classes or ... what? Many games don't require such a clear cut ability-oriented class and offer mix, but if we're talking straight up D&D then Cleric > Mage > Rogue > Warrior, as warrior is least versatile and thus has least use.
This of course holds nothing one games like Arcanum, Gothic, Fallout, or whatever.
This of course holds nothing one games like Arcanum, Gothic, Fallout, or whatever.
Cassidy
Arcane
The only "class"/archetype that can sneak away from rats if diplomacy won't work with them.
Hobo Elf
Arcane
Mikayel said:
I don't care what game you pick the classes from. They all have their roots in D&D anyway so I just went with the 4 most common archetypes.
MetalCraze
Arcane
Definitely rogues or wizards. Preferably in a good game worth completing two times with each class.
Wizards because of the variety of problems they can give to their enemies (not just banal nukes) mixed with all those cool varied spell effects. One of the reasons I liked RoA's implementation so much.
And rogues because they provide for a more thoughtful gameplay as your character is very weak to put it lightly, and so sneaking past enemies and using various traps on them becomes like a small tactical game.
Too bad they suck hard in many cRPGs, mostly due to a real-time combat as it doesn't fit good with the need to think on each next step with sneak/stealth checks going every half of a second.
Wizards because of the variety of problems they can give to their enemies (not just banal nukes) mixed with all those cool varied spell effects. One of the reasons I liked RoA's implementation so much.
And rogues because they provide for a more thoughtful gameplay as your character is very weak to put it lightly, and so sneaking past enemies and using various traps on them becomes like a small tactical game.
Too bad they suck hard in many cRPGs, mostly due to a real-time combat as it doesn't fit good with the need to think on each next step with sneak/stealth checks going every half of a second.
Twinkle
Liturgist
Definitely rogues.
Too bad you can't find properly done stealth nowadays even outside of RPG realm.
Too bad you can't find properly done stealth nowadays even outside of RPG realm.
DraQ
Arcane
Arcane=Diplomatic>Sneaky>Bashy>Pious
They are also JoATs.
Bards are pretty cool, as they are basically rogues with a bit of wizard, plus a lot of intelligence, knowledge and diplomatic skills thrown in.Hobo Elf said:
They are also JoATs.
Vaarna_Aarne
Notorious Internet Vandal
WIZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD
GarfunkeL
Racism Expert
Jack of all trades, master of none - still better than only one!
Black Cat
Magister
Originally i rolled with witches and sorcerers, but now, maybe because of becoming corrupted by MMO stuffs, i play mostly white mages, clerics, or whatever the archetype is called on the game. The one who heal people and use a mixture of support, maybe control, ocasionally debuff, and, rarely, summoning spells, depending on setting? Those. As long as it has healing and support i'm a happy cat, the rest is a bonus i like to have but can live without.
As another bonus if you are a good nuker or tank or whatever most clans will still have two dozen players just like you, and some of those will be equal or better than you, but if you are a good and dedicated healer/support player who knows how to play in a team players, parties, and even clans will get in arguments while trying to recruit you for a while or permanently, and that's always cool to make you feel wanted.
And as a final bonus they always get the white and light blue clothes, and the least foxy or whory dresses too.
As another bonus if you are a good nuker or tank or whatever most clans will still have two dozen players just like you, and some of those will be equal or better than you, but if you are a good and dedicated healer/support player who knows how to play in a team players, parties, and even clans will get in arguments while trying to recruit you for a while or permanently, and that's always cool to make you feel wanted.
And as a final bonus they always get the white and light blue clothes, and the least foxy or whory dresses too.
Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 15,845
One of the things I liked in everquest was the very specific and defined roles of various classes.
Wizards were almost pure damage, and could dump the most damage on either a single target or wide area in the shortest period of time (Usually killing themselves unless whatever it was was stunned.) Their only crowd control was a root spell- something that only disabled movement and would have a chance of breaking when damaged.
Enchanters, by comparison, had some party buffs, but most importantly, were the only class with significant cowd control. Stuns and sleeps for both single targets and areas were something only they could do decently or often at all.
Most games make any sort of caster a total grab bag. Even something that's supposed to be damage oriented and themed with fire will have a bunch of crowd control, buffing, debuffing, area, single target, slow and efficient vs fast and inefficient spells. Sucks all the flavour out of a class when it shares 95% of what it does with everyone else and only has a slight advantage in certain areas.
Wizards were almost pure damage, and could dump the most damage on either a single target or wide area in the shortest period of time (Usually killing themselves unless whatever it was was stunned.) Their only crowd control was a root spell- something that only disabled movement and would have a chance of breaking when damaged.
Enchanters, by comparison, had some party buffs, but most importantly, were the only class with significant cowd control. Stuns and sleeps for both single targets and areas were something only they could do decently or often at all.
Most games make any sort of caster a total grab bag. Even something that's supposed to be damage oriented and themed with fire will have a bunch of crowd control, buffing, debuffing, area, single target, slow and efficient vs fast and inefficient spells. Sucks all the flavour out of a class when it shares 95% of what it does with everyone else and only has a slight advantage in certain areas.
Personally, I like playing diplomats whenever it's viable (in games like Arcanum and Bloodlines), but I generally prefer using melee weapons to magic or bows, so I usually play warriors.
Carlos' Bitch1
Arcane
Scout used to be a nice class, along with the Thief and the Fighter. Didn't mind Rangers, Druids and Clerics. Troubadours, or Bards as they are called now were once good classes too.
foxfire29
Novice
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2009
- Messages
- 79
If the Wizard class is done well and works with a fun ruleset , then Wizard for me 
I depends on the game though but in general terms I like the wizards diversity with spells and I always think of them as good lategame characters, also conside that I always go to complete a game hence I choose a caster. The specific spells that alure me to this class are the powerful elemental spells which usually mean you can damage any mob in the game.
Also the fact they can quickly ID stuff is a huge plus and in the nethack roguelike this REALLY helps (Aside from the fact one can price id)
The above said fighter can be an excellent choice depending on the game but taking neverwinter nights as an example to me caster was the most playable
Also Wyrmlord is that one of the Wizardry titles you have screened?
Finally PorkaMorka,
I agree with what you are saying about Rogues, they should be a really fun and balanced class to play but as well as what you mentioned , even when games do permit stealing its not done in such a way to make it fun enough nor balanced enough to partake in as a main class ability
I depends on the game though but in general terms I like the wizards diversity with spells and I always think of them as good lategame characters, also conside that I always go to complete a game hence I choose a caster. The specific spells that alure me to this class are the powerful elemental spells which usually mean you can damage any mob in the game.
Also the fact they can quickly ID stuff is a huge plus and in the nethack roguelike this REALLY helps (Aside from the fact one can price id)
The above said fighter can be an excellent choice depending on the game but taking neverwinter nights as an example to me caster was the most playable
Also Wyrmlord is that one of the Wizardry titles you have screened?
Finally PorkaMorka,
I agree with what you are saying about Rogues, they should be a really fun and balanced class to play but as well as what you mentioned , even when games do permit stealing its not done in such a way to make it fun enough nor balanced enough to partake in as a main class ability
foxfire29 said:
Looks like Wizardry 6.
Aothan
Magister
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2008
- Messages
- 1,742
it is definitely Rogues. Initially build them as a 'thug' type (strength and constitution without negatives on dexterity and intelligence) and they will still have more skill points than average along with a more extensive skill set. It is only a thug in the sense someone did not put the majority of their starting attribute points into dexterity.
the difference in to-hit and overall damage is largely negligible in the opening phases, if not actually already in favour of Rogues because of how absurdly overpowered sneak attack damage becomes. Use a bow for opening sneak damage, can rogues use traps ? I suppose that they could..as with everything else.
all of which is the beginning of an all-purpose class, in their epic levels they mitigate most damage, dodge the rest and don't even need to sneak to sneak attack.
and of course all the social skills, detection, stealth and anything else that can be of use in different situations.
they're too easily exploitable. Speaking as a Ranger.
the difference in to-hit and overall damage is largely negligible in the opening phases, if not actually already in favour of Rogues because of how absurdly overpowered sneak attack damage becomes. Use a bow for opening sneak damage, can rogues use traps ? I suppose that they could..as with everything else.
all of which is the beginning of an all-purpose class, in their epic levels they mitigate most damage, dodge the rest and don't even need to sneak to sneak attack.
and of course all the social skills, detection, stealth and anything else that can be of use in different situations.
they're too easily exploitable. Speaking as a Ranger.
Xor
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2008
- Messages
- 9,345
I prefer mages. In a well-designed system, mages can be very fun and rewarding to play. In a broken system, they can also outperform pretty much all other classes.
For example, I'm currently playing a wizard in a 3E D&D game, and while I'm not on top damage-wise, I easily have the most utility while still doing respectable damage.
For example, I'm currently playing a wizard in a 3E D&D game, and while I'm not on top damage-wise, I easily have the most utility while still doing respectable damage.
Awor Szurkrarz
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2009
- Messages
- 21,899
Generally, I like fighters the most, but practically no cRPG has a combat system that would be as interesting as RL renaissance martial arts.
Wizards. Not the nuking kind. Just someone who prefers using wit instead of brawn. Best example would be Constantine, he doesn't necessarily use magic to solve things, and never use it as a weapon. As a former pnp player I loved how I could come up with creative ways to use spells in all manners of ways (or threaten to use them). This has sadly never really been implemented in a crpg that I can think of, magic is unfortunetly limited to combat in most games.
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