Cleve gets into a fight with SidAlpha!

[Feargus Jewhart]

I do know how programming works and the idea that Cleve stole code from Wizardry is unconvincing. You can lift maybe some parts like inventory handling or some other relatively self-contained system but even so you'd still need to integrate it with the rest of your shit. If I lift an A* example off the internet and modify it to work for my game does that mean I stole the code? To claim yes is a stretch to me.

The alternative is what? he lifted everything, kitchen sink and all? That's even more unlikely. The sheer amount of spaghetti would make the stolen code unusable even to a veteran programmer unless he wrote it himself and if he wrote it himself, who cares? Fuck companies that go "you wrote the code while working for me, I own it.". You don't own shit bitch. It's code not poetry. Go fuck yourself.

The only way which it would make sense in is if Cleve or someone else implemented a system in a certain way for Wizardry and then Cleve implemented it in Grimoire the same way. Which is not stealing code, it's *how coding works*. You can't exactly steal logic or a system like you explained, it actually needs to be implemented. If this is stealing, every single coder has stolen, does it daily and using any known algorithms is stealing.

It's the equivalent of taking the suspension from a Lada and trying to fit it into a Mercedes, it's not gonna work out without modifying the suspension so much it will be nothing like the original Lada suspension.

 

[polo]

In before retardo.

You are 10 pages too late my friend.

 

[Bobby_Typhoon]

Have you ever noticed Cost-Co always positions the casket displays so you see them as you are leaving the cafeteria? It's like they are telling you "If you're eating here regularly, you should really pick out one of these now. Don't leave the decision to your next of kin."

Bastards got rid of the beef burrito. These damn leftists went too far this time. I've had to cut my protein intake down to just 30 pounds a day, I am skin and bones.

Now I'm no nutritionist, but I've been hearing a lot about avocado's. Some sort of miracle food it sounds like. Maybe you can just eat a ridiculous amount of these to make up for the beef. Granted, you're not a mere homosapien so I believe you can handle it.

In other news, I finally built a new PC that I feel is worthy of The Grimoire. It will be my gift to myself on Christ's birthday. May the Blakemore spirit be in my favor when I start my trials in The Grimoire.

Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk

 

[Werdna's Revenge]

"Code Theft" is a thing that happens. The thing is it's very hard to prove, you need access to the source from both things, which can be pretty hard to get in a lot of cases. In my experience, it mostly comes up when a big company is buying a smaller one and audits their code base. For something in the wild there are giveaways sometimes, but in a game that's not going to be as reliable since often games are making their own implementation of an existing system. You can certainly accuse Grimoire of hewing too close to the design/systems of Wizardry, but that's an actual selling point to people. As with most people online trying to talk about coding in general (and especially with games) it's best to operate on the assumption that they don't know jack shit and it's all hot air.

 

[TheImplodingVoice]

Has this fight between them not been resolved yet?

 

[J_C]

I am the only person in 25 years out of this internet crowd who has never been on any medication whatsoever.

Well, maybe you should have been.

Spoiler

I kid, I kid. That was too good to pass. :brofist:

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

The code architecture I wrote in 3 months for Sir-Tech became a lesson in how not to write Wizardry infrastructure in 4 months. It was cobbled together in real mode Turbo C and it was a collection of learning mistakes that are commonly made by C coders when they are just starting out. I tried to use static allocation for everything to avoid memory leaks. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

I had seen all the code for Wizardry Bane and Crusaders. If I had copied or lifted code I'd have had far fewer problems. The original Wizardry code was the product of years of unit testing that was of far higher quality than anything I have written to-date. I remember looking over it and realizing that David Bradley and Woodhead/Greenberg must have been superb developers, way too good for clowns like Norman and Robert to employ under any conditions other than pure chance.

When I started on Grimoire, I was a much better C coder than when I started on Stones of Arnhem. By this time, I was beginning to be a decent C++ coder. I decided I would not even contaminate my new design with any ideas from Stones of Arnhem. This is called second system syndrome. It means the previous system was so bad it is abandoned even as a metaphor for the way the system should work.

The source code for Grimoire is not quite as good as the original code for Wizardry because of the lack of unit testing and refinement of architecture that took place over the course of 6 prior games. It's the best I have been able to write while holding a full time job, commuting 4 hours a day and supporting a family for 20 years. My code takes advantage of flat memory and sheer processing power that was not even available when Wizardry was written but the original Wizardry was still better source code than anything I could write. The authors had the benefit of years of reflection and refactoring for it.

Zep Zepo, you're a little man. Not just physically a garden gnome but a very tiny little man spiritually, mentally and emotionally. As a person who probably has a long unbroken criminal record for petty offenses, it would seem natural to you to steal stuff in order to get anywhere in life. Like you preyed on the release of my source code, by taking advantage of my no-DRM policy to peer into the binaries and make use of the code without my permission. You steal stuff because it is in your midget goblin DNA. You're a bad little man, Zep, and doing bad things comes naturally to you. It's not just in my sinews, bones and brains I am a better man than you. The idea a little craven midget like you would accuse me of stealing code is part of the sour grapes bitter death spiral you call your existence. Every day you defer walking off a pier with a concrete block chained to your neck is another Vietnamese child sold into sex slavery. Just like I would not need to take a shortcut to beat you in a 3 kilometer race or to use hollow weights to beat you in a bench press competition. A hideous shrunken dwarf like yourself makes his way through life with trickery, deception and parasitism. Sorry, but you have no choice in the matter because nature shorted you in all regards. It is your sour grapes you believe all men are tiny little bonsai people. It is just you alone that is that pathetic.

People like me don't need to steal things to get anywhere. I took the hard route. I started with "hello world" in Watcom 32 bit DOS C++ and just kept adding to it. My real talent is my incredible ability as a mimic ... to look at an existing game and play it and duplicate it's general look'n'feel with incredible accuracy. I have a deep grasp of how something has to feel in order to capture the zeitgeist of the original, while still constantly adding my own little flourishes to it to make it a little better. I guess some people just can't give credit where credit is due and are not even man enough to get in the ring to back up any of their words. Calling me a thief is just your sour grapes, Zepo. Like Baxander, you are a frustrated game author who figures if he follows me around with his nose pressed into the crevice of my ass cheeks, maybe he will absorb something of merit.

The thing is, when I release the source code for my game one of these days and it is obvious my code does not resemble a single line of anything in the world but my code for the game, I'm not going to get an apology from any of these burrowing human anal chiggers who post anon on the internet hurling all kinds of insults at strangers accusing them of plagiarism.

Zepo, when I saw your photograph I got a very strong vibe you are not going to be with us much longer. You might want to clear your conscience because I have a feeling you are going to meet your maker pretty soon. He's probably going to have to lean over to see your tiny midget ass down there sweating and making up all kinds of lame excuses for your life. You might want to start clearing up your affairs now. I get feelings sometimes. Looking at your photo, I see you feeding a worm farm very soon. You might want to consider all your evil deeds in this life, they are piling up faster than arterial hardening for you.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

"Code Theft" is a thing that happens. The thing is it's very hard to prove, you need access to the source from both things, which can be pretty hard to get in a lot of cases. In my experience, it mostly comes up when a big company is buying a smaller one and audits their code base. For something in the wild there are giveaways sometimes, but in a game that's not going to be as reliable since often games are making their own implementation of an existing system. You can certainly accuse Grimoire of hewing too close to the design/systems of Wizardry, but that's an actual selling point to people. As with most people online trying to talk about coding in general (and especially with games) it's best to operate on the assumption that they don't know jack shit and it's all hot air.

In terms of hewing to Wizardry, Grimoire design basically consisted of playing some Wizardry, then booting Grimoire and noting where it was different at present ... modifying it a little, testing it and looking at it literally running side-by-side on two computers to see how much more I could get the look'n'feel gestalt adjusted for it. I also would play some Lands of Lore or Might and Magic ... think of something I was seeing on screen ... that's cool, I should add something similar to Grimoire ... then booting it and comparing it to that game side-by-side. I was still tweaking it 16 years later because I felt a certain mechanic was cool in one of these other classic blobbers.

Internet basement trolls who still live with their parents wouldn't know it but the dead giveaway that Grimoire is not plagiarized from anything is that it is not as well balanced, as well tested and as well adjusted as the legacy code of Wizardry 1-7. Anybody who knows anything about coding would notice it after playing a short while. That's because Wizardry is the product of a lot more money, time, opportunity and development than was possible for one person working alone who built everything.

 

[Zep Zepo]

I was dating the high school prom queen while you were hiding from rats in abandoned subway tunnels. You clearly have no idea what a good looking high t male looks like. I'd blame your down's syndrome.

I was really in the US Army, while you go about stealing honor from those who have served.

You're a pathetic old hobo.

Zep--

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I will pay good money for anyone that can find me the first ever documented exchange between Zep Zepo vs. Cleveland Mark Blakemore. There is so much history here. What caused all this turmoil? Perhaps they were friends that became enemies? A disagreement over the morality of stealing sugar cubes from coffee shops for your own home?

To truly appreciate this impending collision between two titans of the RPG Codex, we must start from the beginning.

 

[Zep Zepo]

There's no story. He's just easy to troll. He falls for the bait every time.

Zep--

 

[King Crispy]

Like Baxander, you are a frustrated game author who figures if he follows me around with his nose pressed into the crevice of my ass cheeks, maybe he will absorb something of merit.

 

[Zep Zepo]

DECLINE *outsold Grimoire 3:1

24,000 downloads and still climbing.

Zep--
*DECLINE was free.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

There's no story.

There is always a story. What caused you to take to challenging Cleve? Did this all begin here? Is this carryover from somewhere else?

I mean I can't speak for you, but nobody in a sober frame of mind wakes up one day and says "I want to poke the Neanderthal bear that is Cleveland M. Blakemore." I've no idea how you look like currently, but based upon current photo evidence provided I am pretty sure Cleveland could whoop my ass. That's just me acknowledging strength the same way I'd not dare want to wrestle a tiger because for most people that don't exhibit freakish strength typically found in a horror movie villain, that's a losing battle.

If Cleveland's knocks against your physical stature are actually true and he keeps pulling out your punk card, what have you got to lose by squaring up? If you never match words with fists, well, people will think you're being cowardly and won't respect you.

Do you ever plan to go blow-to-blow with Cleve? I have to tell you, he's really curb stomping into your manhood and I don't the trolling excuse is working out well in your favour. Even if he does beat you down, you will have the respect of your fellow man for at least standing up to back your convictions.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I lurked the codex for over a decade, only making an account to appear in a Cleve thread.

 

[Werdna's Revenge]

The code architecture I wrote in 3 months for Sir-Tech became a lesson in how not to write Wizardry infrastructure in 4 months. It was cobbled together in real mode Turbo C and it was a collection of learning mistakes that are commonly made by C coders when they are just starting out. I tried to use static allocation for everything to avoid memory leaks. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

The good old trial by fire school of learning how to code in C.

 

[Cael]

The code architecture I wrote in 3 months for Sir-Tech became a lesson in how not to write Wizardry infrastructure in 4 months. It was cobbled together in real mode Turbo C and it was a collection of learning mistakes that are commonly made by C coders when they are just starting out. I tried to use static allocation for everything to avoid memory leaks. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

The good old trial by fire school of learning how to code in C.

That is the only way to learn coding in C.

C++, on the other hand...

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

I was dating the high school prom queen while you were hiding from rats in abandoned subway tunnels. You clearly have no idea what a good looking high t male looks like. I'd blame your down's syndrome.

This is the kind of thing that a tiny effeminate leprechaun would say to seek to impress.

I was really in the US Army middle class welfare work camp, while you go about stealing honor winning the All-Army triathlon, fronting the cover of Stars&Stripes and making active duty soldiers look like untermenschen weaboos from those who have served.

You're a pathetic old hobo.

Funny, that's the consensus of about ten thousand Codexers after seeing your photo. Was that a stand-in you hired for the photo? Should have picked somebody over 4 feet tall.

Zep--

Signs every post with his name because even he realizes he is so dull people might forget who they are reading while scanning his drivel.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Funny, that's the consensus of about ten thousand Codexers after seeing your photo. Was that a stand-in you hired for the photo? Should have picked somebody over 4 feet tall.

Nobody made a comment, negative or otherwise, on my photo but you. When are you going to come out of the closet and embrace your homosexuality?

Zep--

 

[Cael]

Funny, that's the consensus of about ten thousand Codexers after seeing your photo. Was that a stand-in you hired for the photo? Should have picked somebody over 4 feet tall.

Nobody made a comment, negative or otherwise, on my photo but you. When are you going to come out of the closet and embrace your homosexuality?

Zep--

You do realise that people tend not to comment when encountering with adults with obvious mental problems, and instead look away and try to get out of there as soon and fast as possible?

Spoiler

 

[Micormic]

Even if he did take code isn't intellectual property only protected for x amount of years?

 

[GandGolf]

Cleve has been insulted and he demands satisfaction on the field of honor!

 

[Kruno]

I challenge Cleve to a tard-off! I will show you the power of my tardation!

 

[vdweller]

Send zep zepo photo links plz

 

[Ovg]

Huh, A youtuber who is kinda sane

Alfonso1
@PBJ "Freedom of speech" doesn't mean that you can insult other people for no reason with impunity. Even if you can legally get away with it (looking at the details of the law and being lucky, because it prescribed), freedom does not mean that. Freedom means being able to direct your life as you want, but without going against the freedom of others, and taking responsibility for your actions. I do not think that freedom means saying what you want of whoever you want, whether it's true or not, running over the honor of other people without looking back. I do not think the owner of this channel thinks so but if he does, then his opponent was right: He is very wrong not only about the internet, but about the world in general. And if he thinks so, other problems like this and worse will arise, and sooner or later he will find the last of his shoe. But as I said, I do not think he thinks that way.

He is defending Cleve guise. Saying that ol' Siddy spewed a lie and is a bad person. Pls like and subscribe.