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Colony Ship Early Access Release Thread

Discussion in 'Iron Tower Studio' started by Infinitron, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    We'll just have to disagree on this.

    My very strong supposition is that players who use premade characters in an RPG are not doing so to learn why those characters are "badly min-maxed," nor are they hoping to play a gimped version of an archetypal character, nor are they particularly likely to replay the game, and if they were to replay the game, it would be a bad idea to steer them toward replaying it with a better-min-maxed version of the same archetype, rather than with a new archetype. I think people use premade characters because they don't want to take the time to really learn the character sheet and want to jump into the game. If you make a gimped archetype for such players, you are making a harder difficulty mode for less-grognardy players. That is 100% backwards. It may be good justice, but it's not good business if what you're trying to do is avoid bad reviews and unhappy customers.

    So, basically, if you make a diplomat character, his stats should be min-maxed for effective diplomacy. They should not have meta-gaming min-maxing to maximize lore and access to all non-combat content. That kind of fine-tuning, and the resulting rewards, belong to more serious players. But the casuals should be able to have premade archetypes that are suited to their casual style of play.

    The FO character above is not as bad as, e.g., the premade characters in Gold Box games, but he's still kind of silly -- his charisma should probably be 10, his intelligence should be higher, his strength should be lower, etc. It's been a long time since I rolled a FO character, but I cannot see any reason for STR being anything but the minimum for that character (he's tagged small guns) -- it doesn't even make sense with his biography.
     
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  2. Savecummer Latest Doxxer Account Edgy

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    kinda BUG that might have been fixed already:
    if you are lone wolf and sneak to the lone guy in sharpface encounter, close the door behind you, kill him, START COMBAT - now you are locked out and cant end combat, cant open the door
     
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  3. Savecummer Latest Doxxer Account Edgy

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    • Increased Critical Thinker feat damage bonus per level to 0.03 from 0.02
    • Reduced base critical damage to 1.2x from 1.25x
    • Reduced critical damage from aimed: head (1.4x from 1.5x) and bullseye attacks (1.6x from 1.75x).
    mmm why reduce base crits?
     
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  4. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    my lone mastermind murder hobo
    [​IMG]

    ...somehow didnt get 5th lvl. Everything is dead. Could wear all the armor pieces without penalties(save for AP, was planning to correct that on 5th lvl). Cleared every fight in Pit, without leaving pit(save for xroads quest chain)
    Once game expands, some hybrid sneak + blade/pistol is going to be my go to character. That sneak above kind of leveled itself. I wonder if science will stay freeish with mastermind
     
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  5. Alpan Magister Patron

    Alpan
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    This is all true, but I would say the premade characters paint a partial picture. Problems with premades may hint at characteristics of the game's overall design. If even the Diplomat guy has Small Guns tagged, doesn't that signal to the player that a 100% diplomatic route is going to be somewhat difficult, and even a diplomat may have to resort to gunfights in certain situations? I'm not saying the FO character is doing a good job at this (it's just a bad character, let alone optimized), just pointing out a consideration in how premades can be designed.

    Also, min-maxing even for archetypes is going to result in some homogenization. With the exception of systems where the stats act as requirements (i.e. D&D), I haven't seen many game systems that didn't feature universally good stats (INT, AGI in Fallout, Perception in PoE etc.). Of course that is an indictment of the game balance than anything else (like the Diplomat tagging Barter above).

    Finally, even if a developer is sufficiently accommodating for those players unlikely to spare much thought for character design or replay the game, there is still no guarantee that they'll actually experience the game all the way through. Like, in Age of Decadence, there are many kinds of diplomacy runs, that can vary quite differently based on the choices you make throughout. And AoD, with its somewhat linear design especially when playing a talker, is mechanically quite simple compared to Fallout! At that point, you may well concede and make a story mode that trivializes combat and skill checks and just let the player do whatever they want.
     
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  6. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    bringing more attention to this. In addition, they do not trigger distortion field electroshock on miss. Only enemy Ive encountered behaving as such
     
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  7. Alpharius Learned

    Alpharius
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    Not sure about this learn by doing system, seems like its too easy to make a jack of all trades, especially considering combat is trivialized by the prescence of a party.

    Like, it seems that any combat that 3 party members + main character optimized for combat can handle, 3 party members + not very combat-oriented main character would be able to handle just as well, with a few additional quickloads. Which means that combat skills can be disregarded when choosing which skill to train.

    This leaves cs(for takedowns), biotech, computers, electronics, persuasion, streetwise, impersonate, lockpick, steal, sneack.

    Of these CS seems to be fairly easy to train by using high crit chance attacks in combat and takedowns. While biotech, computers, electronics, lockpick and steal will probably very rarely have a mutualy exclusive skill check for different skill(right? seems logical, and its like that in EA too). It would seem that mastermind with +50% learning rate would be enough to train these to high level assuming the main character takes every oportunity to use them.

    So we end up with persuasion, streetwise, impersonate, sneack. And with 10 inteligence one can tag 4 skills, how convenient. It seems likely that +150% from tag and mastermind would be more than enough to train these to high levels even when choosing combat, stealth and persuation quest solutions equally often. (Though i'm not sure its necessary to tag all 3 dialogue skills. After all, succesfull persuations often give xp for all 3)

    Am i wrong?
    Show Spoiler

    No :lol:.


    I would suggest at least making it so that 6 charisma (+ implant) is not enough to get all 3 party members. If 3 party members required 10 charisma there would have been some tradeof at least. (And replace that implant effect with something else).
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  8. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    never tried but it appears that you can leave most skill checks to party members? Faythe can be turned into quite a skill monkey, covering electronics, computers sneak an lockpick.
    As it stands you would need to cover just speech checks.

    I never liked skill checks in party based games in general, usually its easy to cover everything. Colony is adding another dimension with reputation system but will see how much it changes
     
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  9. Jaedar Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Which is fair enough, but it does kind of mean that medkits will need to cost pretty close to 50$ to heal entire party, or else it will be highly advantageous to waste time by loading screens. Admittedly money seems pretty plentiful in chapter 1 if you do everything, but I assume there will be lots of great gear on sale once we go to "civilization".
     
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  10. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    I could cover all skill checks with PC with a 10 CHA build, required a bit of back and forth though.

    Biggest problem with the system seems to be the excessive combat XP, it diverges very quickly from other skills and makes later fights too easy.
    Could make each encounter be worth a fixed amount of combat XP, then hand it out afterwards, split depending on skill usage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  11. Luckmann Arcane Zionist Agent

    Luckmann
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    I actually really like the current UI aesthetic and feel that it really fits the game/atmosphere while maintaining functionality. I think the only complaint I have is the choice of font, which has this shitty "v" and "w" that looks like it's in italics when nothing else is - which is a pity, because the font otherwise fits, too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  12. Jaedar Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Afaik this is how it works. Each NPC is worth a certain amount of xp, when you shoot them they give out a little bit, when you kill them you get all the remaining xp.
     
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  13. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    Is there a real hard cap?
    Might be that the numbers are just widely overtuned.

    Being based on securing the kill is also a bit problematic if you aren't playing solo, leads to some degenerate gameplay.

    On that note, when does the '...'s quick demise' of getting CS instead of Armor for killing someone trigger?
    Seemed to be guaranteed if you 100 to 0 an enemy in a turn, but also in some other cases.
     
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  14. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    problem is not regular xp, but rather skill xp. You can be takedown god and your CS will be nowhere near murder hobo run. And its not just that: why takedown enemy for minimal sneak and CS bump, while killing same enemy will give you far more xp in CS, armor, evasion AND weapon of choice?
     
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  15. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    It's disgusting really. Takedown on someone gave me 25 sneak, 25 CS. Killing the same dude straight up gave >150 CS, and 50ish for the rest.
     
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  16. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    reaction weapons are... odd. Not a big fan of a system that favors big stuff over small.
    Take melee for example, lets say you like to use 1h hammer. Optimal is to disable response on it and have use 2h instead in 2ndary slot.
    If I use daggers, responses should be from machete instead. Dagger response usually doesnt cut through armor. Speaking of daggers and swords, their AP costs make little sense while looking at dmg range and minimal penetration that some daggers offer. While testing I was never able to have flurry outperform double strike too
     
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  17. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    How does the game decide which reaction attack to use?

    Sometimes you get hit with snap shot, sometimes burst.
     
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  18. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    I thought it grabs cheapest attack from given weapon? On revolvers its only snapshot. On daggers/swords I saw fast attacks only. I guess burst is from smgs, On rifles I saw snapshots too I think?
     
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  19. jackofshadows Liturgist

    jackofshadows
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    There's a tiny button in the corner of weapon slot by which you can able/disable reaction attacks so you can use your 2h hammer from 2nd slot for that, for example.

    The game checks reaction for main wep slot first, then for the second, and yeah, uses the most cheap attack so it can be burst with SMGs only as far as I'm aware.
     
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  20. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
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    Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Had a quick look at this, and pretty impressive job I'd say. The only minor nitpick I have is that I'd prefer if the dialogue had different color than the descriptive text.

    The fact that the first goons you encounter can have quite different background than you assumed is classic AoD, more of that. An old trick, but still worth it to make the player occasionally regret being too quick to act in violent ways (and too eager to accept any random request of help).
     
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  21. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    just had a thought regarding disappearing enemies.

    In free the deacon quest you can sneak in. Whats unique in that one is you being able to stay afterwards and get that combat xp.
    Would it be possible to do same with both frog encounters? Show your sneak thief superiority and come back to get some combat experience for hybrids. Same for 2 scavengers by elevator in armory.

    In last armory encounter by vault doors, can you move escape area 1 tile towards armory? That way you would be able to lockpick doors and execute some takedowns easier.

    Why are there no sneak options for xroads chains at the end? Both bases seem easy to break into with some dexterity no? Not talking about easy killing boss, but take down few enemies and try to survive while main force arrives?

    Not related: I love how enemies are not limited to fall dead on the floor, but can bend over tables and such. Notticed that in house of horrors combat.
    Speaking of that encounter, if you knock down any enemy that was standing by the door, you are unable to target until they stand up
    I wonder if devs are even reading random stuff I type in here
     
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  22. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    We are reading all posts, but we don't have time to respond to every post. Numb from pre- and post-release stress and overloaded (fixes, improvements, next location).
     
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  23. razvedchiki Erudite Sad Loser

    razvedchiki
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    which of the 3 pit players favors the brotherhood?
     
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  24. HeatEXTEND Cipher Patron

    HeatEXTEND
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    mUsT....nOT......PlaY.......MUst...noT.....PLaY...eA :dead:
     
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  25. Nm6k Educated

    Nm6k
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    None so I would recommend going with Jonas so you can keep the town weaken if you intend to go with the Brotherhood
     
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