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Colony Ship update #47: the Stealth System

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,7861.0.html

Role-playing means different things to different people. To us, it means handling quests and obstacles in a manner fitting your character. You can solve all your problems with violence, you can talk your way through the game, 'making friends and influencing people', or you can rely on stealth (and science) and have a lot of fun in the process.

One of the early quests tasks you with recruiting Lord's Mercy and her gang for Braxton (more on the conflict here link, written by Primordia's Mark Yohalem himself).

The (relatively) easy way is to convince Mercy to switch sides, but it requires skills like Persuasion and Streetwise. If you fail, you'd have to kill her to weaken Jonas, which will be a very hard fight as you'd have to fight the entire gang in their 'fort', where the negotiations take place. Obviously, if Mercy and her gang are a valuable ally in the upcoming fight for the control of the Pit, they need to be appropriately tough.

Alternatively, you can sneak inside, assassinate Mercy and leave before anyone realizes what happened.

s8NrQgy.png

^ Mercy's 'fort'

If you decide to practice your manipulation skills:

gp28ZLh.png


QKHj5To.png

^ reference to the previous quest

SW3c1xF.png


ul5SU2i.png

^ the disposition meter tracks the person's reaction and shows your progress toward helping people see things your way

Back to stealth:

kqmfQDH.png

^ you can climb up and take out the guard on that little balcony or go past the guard on the lower level. The alert bars above the guards' heads are temporary. Our focus was on the mechanics, not the interface and presentation. The good thing is that it seems to work well, so think of it as a foundation to build on (with your help) not a finished system.

NHx7Fsq.gif


qmyKkF7.png


5dkqUlS.png


An overview of the mechanics:

1) Tiles - when you enter the stealth mode, all tiles around guards are automatically assigned detection values. If your sneaking ability (the skill and modifiers) is greater than the detection value, you remain undetected. Thus, green tiles are safe to walk on, red tiles means instant detection and combat, yellow means higher chance of detection (if you end your turn there, you'll be instantly detected at the beginning of the guard's turn).

The detection values are determined by the distance from the guards, which way they're facing, their Perception, and thermal vision gear, if any. High sneaking ability turns more tiles green and opens up more options.

2) Noise - each step and action (lockpicking, climbing, using computers, killing guards in stealth mode, etc) generates noise. Not a whole lot of noise to instantly alert the guards the moment you do something but enough to add up over time and raise the guards' suspicions. The higher the guards' Perception, the faster the alert bar is filled:

0-24: Unaware
25-49: Suspicious (a warning to the player)
50-74: Alerted
75-100: Searching

When a guard is alerted, he turns around towards the last noise generated, so if you are close he'll see you (meaning a lot of green tiles will instantly turn red). When a guard decides that it's time to investigate, he moves towards the last noise generated on his turn. If the meter reaches 100, he "interrupts" your turn and turns around immediately.

Each state past Unaware raises the difficulty of killing in stealth mode.

3) The higher your sneaking ability (skill, feats, gear) the longer you can stay undetected and the more you can do. To put it simply, if your quest goal is to steal an item from a chest nearby but there's another chest in a room down the hall, it will be relatively easy to get to the 'quest chest' but much harder to get to the optional chest (without starting a fight you may or may not be able to win). So specialization will definitely pay off.

You can reduce the noise you generate (Sneaking and feats like Ghost: -1 noise per tile, actions generate half the noise). Heavy boots and armor will increase the noise, so dress light and not get caught in your underwear.

4) Takedown aka instant killing – if your takedown value is equal to or higher than the guard's defensive rating (Con, Evasion, Alert level), you kill the guard. If it's lower, you do X points of damage (modified by different factors) as a consolation prize.

You can only use knifes and daggers for takedowns. If your favor clubs and axes, you can start a combat with the element of surprise on your side (think Sneak Attack).

That's about it for now. Thoughts?
 

Binky

Cipher
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
453
Dumb question:
Will sneaking be a solo affair or can you bring another stealthy companion along?
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,488
Even more dumb question: so, some areas will be "marked" as stealthy (unless combat/persuation approach wasn't selected) so you're enter them, do your thing, move out and after that will be no other way to "normally" get access to them again, right?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Will sneaking be a solo affair or can you bring another stealthy companion along?
Solo affair. You can select a party member best suited for sneaking *and* exploring while inside. As in AoD sneaking will work best with a wide range of skills: lockpicking is obvious but computers and electronics will come in handy too. Not just to gain access to locked areas but to sabotage and affect upcoming fights. Like sneak in, drop a gas grenade into an air duct, signal the rest of your party to attack.

Even more dumb question: so, some areas will be "marked" as stealthy (unless combat/persuation approach wasn't selected) so you're enter them, do your thing, move out and after that will be no other way to "normally" get access to them again, right?
Yes, there will be areas accessible only via stealth, but most areas will be accessible in multiple ways (such as high-ranked status in a faction).

Looks pretty neat, EA when aaaaaaaaa?
Probably Feb (to ensure a smooth and polished launch) with the beta test starting in Dec or early Jan.
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
Shouldn't clubs also be eligible for takedowns due to knock-out power? A blackjack/sap seems like a very nice way to make somebody fall asleep for a long time.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Shouldn't clubs also be eligible for takedowns due to knock-out power? A blackjack/sap seems like a very nice way to make somebody fall asleep for a long time.
In a setting where most guards wear helmets, hitting someone over the head with a metal pipe would create too much noise. Creating a unique item (blackjack) and extra animation is too much work at the moment. Takedowns don't use the weapon skill so you won't have to specialize in Bladed to be able to do them.
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
In a setting where most guards wear helmets, hitting someone over the head with a metal pipe would create too much noise. Creating a unique item (blackjack) and extra animation is too much work at the moment. Takedowns don't use the weapon skill so you won't have to specialize in Bladed to be able to do them.

Makes sense.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
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Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Vault Dweller How silent is the instant kill itself? I imagine it should be quite difficult to reach the level where you can clean out an entire map while in stealth, Garrett-style.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Vault Dweller How silent is the instant kill itself? I imagine it should be quite difficult to reach the level where you can clean out an entire map while in stealth, Garrett-style.
15 points (it's shown on one of the screens). Yes, the noise is the limiting factor so if you stick around long enough (it's not just the insta-killing itself but moving across the map to get to different guards) you'll be detected and attacked. This quest is an early one so there are few guards here as we don't expect the player to have more than 3-4 points in sneaking. Other locations will have a lot more guards plus extensive counter-measures.
 

Takamori

Learned
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
875
I was thinking about silenced weaponry, of course that silencers don't make 100% sound proof but could we get a execute mechanics with pistols or shotguns (Love the concept in the No Country for old Man) if you have enough stealth and guns knowledge?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
I was thinking about silenced weaponry, of course that silencers don't make 100% sound proof but could we get a execute mechanics with pistols or shotguns (Love the concept in the No Country for old Man) if you have enough stealth and guns knowledge?
Making silencers (or any attachment) work with guns will take 3-4 weeks and push the release back. Plus dead bodies in armor dropping down would make enough noise to alarm everyone (if silent kill makes 15 points, ranged kill would have to make at least 25). Plus when it comes to instakills in stealth games, the challenge is to get close enough without being spotted. Using a ranged weapon (a silenced pistol in Alpha Protocol and new Deus Ex games, crossbow in Dishonored) makes it way too easy.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The point of silencers is probably not to make the kill itself silent, but to prevent people from hearing where the shot came from. That distinction I guess is not simulated here, and also less relevant in small spaces.
 

Corvinus

Arcane
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
1,969
If you do come around to implement it for some reason, Vault Dweller, and if the weapons in the game use something similar to a current real-world silencer, you should note that a suppressed gunshot is loud - Around 120 decibels or higher, which is like a rock concert. Unlikey to work for silent takedowns unless the ambient noise level is the same.
 

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
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Oct 27, 2006
Messages
2,878
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San Isidro, Argentina
If you do come around to implement it for some reason, Vault Dweller, and if the weapons in the game use something similar to a current real-world silencer, you should note that a suppressed gunshot is loud - Around 120 decibels or higher, which is like a rock concert. Unlikey to work for silent takedowns unless the ambient noise level is the same.

I was about the say the same thing.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,488
If you do come around to implement it for some reason, Vault Dweller, and if the weapons in the game use something similar to a current real-world silencer, you should note that a suppressed gunshot is loud - Around 120 decibels or higher, which is like a rock concert. Unlikey to work for silent takedowns unless the ambient noise level is the same.
What about sonic stuff? And... the fact that it's a far future setting we're talking about? But the simple fact of dropping dead body is a thing no matter what, as VD said. besides, wouldn't want personally if the game would be balanced around such stuff as ultra-silent weapons.
 

gulagdandy

Novice
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
48
Location
Southern Euope (AKA Best Europe)
Very promising! I think there's something slightly off about the GUI (kinda generic and cheap looking) but this is shaping up to be one of my most anticipated games.
 

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