Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Compilation of Witcher 2 Inconsistencies *Spoilers Galore*

Discussion in 'CD Projekt Red' started by Arcanoix, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. Arcanoix Scholar

    Arcanoix
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
    Messages:
    574
    Inconsistency 1 -

    In the beginning of the game, Geralt has a flashback of his death after Vernon Roche reveals to him that he was killed by a commoner with a pitchfork to the gut. Yennefer also died. In the first game, Zoltan Chivay brings this up and no such flash back occurs. Also Zoltan says (in his original dialogue in the first game) that Yennefer survived.

    Inconsistency 2 -

    During the First Fight with Letho, the Kingslayer remarks, "I'm a Witcher no more!" However - in the end he refers to himself as a "simple Witcher" who won an audience with the Emperor of Niilfgard. (sp?) Also - his only motivation for killing kings as an agent to the Empire was to bring back the School of the Viper with funding from the Emperor for completing his mission. If he is a Witcher no more, and a Kingslayer who serves himself, why does his only motivation stem from the Witcher school where he came to be? Sounds like "cognitive dissonance" but that's just me.

    Inconsistency 3 -

    During the first fight with Letho, the Kingslayer laments, "WHY DO YOU HOUND ME?" In the Epilogue Letho remarks, "I knew you wouldn't have stopped until you found me." Then why bother asking during the first fight?

    Inconsistency 4 -

    In the final conversation with Letho - Geralt remembers sacrificing himself to the Wild Hunt to save Yennefer. Weren't they both killed during that whole separate incident with the racist protesters - err - anti-mutant, anti-elf, anti-dwarf mob?

    Inconsistency 5 -

    Letho asks Geralt TWICE in the SAME conversation (before the first fight) if he "really [doesn't] remember". WHY ask a question to a man who appears aggravated by something, then during the second incidence of the same question, said man seems all calm and cool and shit? Geralt should have been like, "I said I was SICK OF THAT FUCKING QUESTION PUNK! SLICE!!!"

    Inconsistency 6 -

    Why is there concept art of the School of the Viper if we never get to go there? Production costs cut it out perhaps? Would've been better and cheaper to just license the Unreal Engine....

    Inconsistency 7 -

    The mighty Geralt doesn't know how to break through more shrubbery than a lost deer. Seriously, how many passages will be blocked by LEAVES and STICKS in future installments?

    Inconsistency 8 -

    Letho says in the Epilogue that he knows of only two other Witcher's from the School of the Viper that are on the Path. Wait - the anime flashbacks and shit only showed Serrit and Auckes. If the other 2 Witcher's weren't Kingslayer's like them, then WHO was the first assassin trying to kill Foltest?

    Inconsistency 9 -

    The assassin from the ending of the first game, upon close inspection, wears a Viper/Snake medallion (I pointed this out 3 or 4 years ago) and yet the snake medallion that Letho wears looks like two snakes coiled into each other.

    Inconsistency 10 -

    Why don't we ever bump into the other Witcher's from the School of the Wolf? You know, the ones from the first game? Didn't they go to the other Northern Kingdoms? What news from them?

    Post your inconsistencies, maybe CDP:R will take a look? I doubt it but still, the questions remain unanswered....
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Phelot Arcane

    Phelot
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    17,916
    A lot of these aren't really inconsistencies, but simple complaints.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. Arcanoix Scholar

    Arcanoix
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
    Messages:
    574
    Nope. Here's an example of complaining:

    "Why is it every choice we make leads to the same fucking conclusion? Why the fuck did they bother saving Foltest from the first assassin and then turn around just to kill him in the second game's prologue?"

    That's a complaint. Learn 2 Design 4 Dummies.
     
    ^ Top  
  4. odrzut Cipher

    odrzut
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    455
    Location:
    Poland
    Re: Compilation of Witcher 2 Inconsistencies *Spoilers Galor

    Complain to Sapkowski, not to CDPR - this is the canonical version from the books
    Show Spoiler

    Geralt is mortally wounded during this riot, Yennefer casts to much life saving spells on him without effect, and she is sying from this, then Ciri (who can travell between "Spheres" like Wild Hunt) takes dying Geralt and Yennefer to the island of apple trees, where they somehow are still alive, and slowly cure their wounds (I didn't liked the ending of Witcher saga either, too mystical for me).

    The exact same version of the events is presented in the game.


    This isn't inconsistency. This also isn't a valid complain, really - when creating a game you constantly have 1000 of ideas, there is nothing that forces people to use all of them (resulting game would suck - wait for it - because art is perfect not when there is nothing to add, but when there is nothing to cut).


    In the epilogue of W2 Serrit, Auckes, and the guy that Geralt killed in the end of the W1 are all dead, so Letho speaks probably about 2 other Witchers from the Viper school.


    And why exactly each medallion of one school has to look exactly the same? These things aren't mass produced, you know :)

    Because we only see small part of the Northern Kingdoms in TW2?

    Inconsistency 3 is really small detail (maybe the Viper school has to shout stupid things during the fight to confuse the enemy :) )

    Also - sometimes people in the Witcher world lie, or are mistaken (I think Zoltan could be mistaken about Yennefer for example).

    Still - I agree with Inconsistency 2 - it's strange.
     
    ^ Top  
  5. CrimsonAngel Prophet

    CrimsonAngel
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,258
    Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    1. That is because he started regaining his memory after he killed the spirit of the Wild hunt because of the effects that thing has on people it is explained.
    The Flash back was him remembering it.

    2. He was no longer a witcher after he too the mission, but before that he was a witcher.
    The Reasoning makes perfect sens.
    If the school is rebuilt his kind will not die out.

    3. Could be to fuck with him.

    4. We don't know. It is all part of the Mythos that no one knows or we will be told in 3.

    5. Not inconsistent.

    6. Again not inconsistent.

    7. Ditto.

    8. There are more schools then 2 so there is chance that Letho was not the first.

    9. Could be a different school or a screw up. Nothing major.

    10. Why would we?
     
    ^ Top  
  6. Havoc Cheerful Magician Patron

    Havoc
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,319
    Location:
    Poland
    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Inconsistency 1 - So?

    Inconsistency 2 - Depends. He no longer is a sword for hire nor a monster hunter of today witchers. With the Emperor he will have a school.

    Inconsistency 3 - Complaint.

    Inconsistency 4 - Wait. So if Zoltan says that they live, they can't now because you want to nitpick another thing? Hurr...

    Inconsistency 5 - Complaint.

    Inconsistency 6 - Complaint.

    Inconsistency 7 - Complaint.

    Inconsistency 8 - Wrong. He knows exactly 5. Those who were with him died at hands Roche/Geralt in Henselt camp. Two more are in Nilfgaard. The one from Foltest is an inconsistency. Never brought up again (exept at the beginning).

    Inconsistency 9 - Inconsistency by the fucking blacksmith. :x

    Inconsistency 10 - Kaer Morhen. Plus Geralt is hunted for killing the king, so they will have problems of their own. Complaint.

    So... 1/10. :rpgcodex:
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Arcanoix Scholar

    Arcanoix
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
    Messages:
    574
    Re: Compilation of Witcher 2 Inconsistencies *Spoilers Galor

    Except that Geralt says to Roche - "I remember my death." So in a way that's a confirmation that Geralt did indeed DIE from the Pitchfork.

    Ah, the Pol's defending a Polish game. Well played.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Havoc Cheerful Magician Patron

    Havoc
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,319
    Location:
    Poland
    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Re: Compilation of Witcher 2 Inconsistencies *Spoilers Galor

    [Perception] You're stupid. Can't into metaphors? :M
     
    ^ Top  
  9. MasPingon Arcane

    MasPingon
    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,515
    Location:
    Castle Rock
    Arcanoix, USA?
     
    ^ Top  
  10. SuicideBunny (ノ ゜Д゜)ノ ︵ ┻━┻

    SuicideBunny
    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,943
    Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Torment: Tides of Numenera
    Re: Compilation of Witcher 2 Inconsistencies *Spoilers Galor

    island of apple trees = avalon.
    that's why they are still alive and cure their wounds.
    i don't see any inconsistency here. he was a simple witcher, met the emperor which made him leave the path and become a kingslayer so that the school could be fully restored and he could be a simple witcher once more.
    a simple witcher meets the emperor, a kingslayer who is witcher nor more talks to amnesiac geralt.

    one of the animuh wild hunt flashbacks has geralt, letho and three other witchers standing in the background in it, actually. that's geralt with all the kingslayers.
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Radisshu Prophet

    Radisshu
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    5,597
    Thread sucks OP is a fag rpgcodex.jpg etc
     
    ^ Top  
  12. Phelot Arcane

    Phelot
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    17,916
    POLAND! YOUR GAME IS UNDER ATTACK! SWARM SWARM SWARM!!!
     
    ^ Top  
  13. odrzut Cipher

    odrzut
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    455
    Location:
    Poland
    Wait till we finish that nuke.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. Rean Instructor Patron

    Rean
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,865,643
    Location:
    Thors Branch Campus, Leeves
    Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Re: Compilation of Witcher 2 Inconsistencies *Spoilers Galor

    Yennefer did survive, and was taken away along with Geralt to heal. Also, just because Zoltan told Geralt about it doesn't mean Geralt instantly remembered it. He was still suffering the effects of amnesia. It could be that his memory wouldn't start to return until he had dealt with Salamandra and the Grand Master.

    Where is the inconsistency? When he met the Emperor he was still a witcher. In taking up the mantle of kingslayer he turned his back on the witcher's path.

    He never claimed to serve himself. It is quite possible that he wanted to set up a new school and perhaps become a witcher again, or leave it for other people to manage.

    It could be that he didn't realise Geralt's motivations for hunting him until later in the game. Again, no inconsistency.

    You obviously weren't paying attention. Yennefer took Geralt away to heal him, and they lived on an island for a while until the Wild Hunt came to cart her off. Geralt hooked up with Letho to track them, and when they finally caught up to the Wild Hunt he was offered an ultimatum: his soul for Yennefer's, which he accepted.

    No inconsistency here, just seems to me like you don't like the way Letho talks to Geralt.

    What the fuck does this even mean?

    This isn't a plot inconsistency, it is a gameplay device. The Witcher 2 isn't an open world game.

    Jesus Christ, LISTEN PROPERLY. The Order of the Viper wasn't confined to just Letho, Serrit and Auckes, and he never claimed otherwise.

    So the fuck what? Designs change.

    I found this irritating too, it would have been nice to see the Salamandra/Berengar plotline resolved with Geralt talking to Vesemir. But it isn't an inconsistency.

    Children ask a lot of questions, many of them stupid.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Mrowak Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Mrowak
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,938
    Project: Eternity
    Re: Compilation of Witcher 2 Inconsistencies *Spoilers Galor

    Dude?! What the fuck?! Those are just minor nitpicks that are 1) no errors at all. 2) Understandable errors anyone can make 3) Deliberate decisions you do not happen to like.

    Are you even trying?!

    There are many more more serious issues with the storyline than such hogwash.

    Specimen 1.

    Show Spoiler
    When you enter prisoners' barge in Flotsom it is enough for Geralt to bark a couple of times to make the guardsman believe we're acting on Loredo's orders. I mean I can buy that he let you through. What I don't understand is that he didn't check on you. No, he let some weirdass and his gf talk to some important prisoners for no reason. He can't be working for the elves, can he? I wonder what other guardsmen on the ship had to tell about that.


    That's a very minor observation. Here is more glaring issue:

    Specimen 2.

    Show Spoiler
    In act 2 (Roche's path) when prompted by Roche about a small figurine Geralt immediately connects the dots and identifies it as Triss affacted by artifact compression. He hasn't seen the damn thing be immediately connects the statue with Triss for some reason. Dubious. What's more fun, in Iorveth's path having found the same figurine he fails to notice its strangeness and delivers it himself to Olsten. Way to go, bro!


    Wait, there's more!

    Specimen 3.

    Show Spoiler
    In Roche's path, when you run with him to Nilfgaardian camp and see their ship setting out he refuses to pursue it - he says Henselt would not allow them to set sail... Ok, with a stretch of imagination that's kinda plausible. What is more worrying is his statement he pacifies Geralt with - that the ambassador is heading to Loc Muin and that you will meet him there eventually. How does he know that? I mean, Olsten had told about his plans himself, but he could have been lying all along. Or getting grip on Triss, he could have reprioritize his goals. Or he could have send the figurine with a trusted courrier to Nilfgaard. Or he could botch the decompression and kill Triss. So many possibilities!


    You think that's the end?

    Specimen 4.

    Show Spoiler
    You gotta love how the two Witchers picked timing when they attack Henselt in the camp. They just had to stumble upon you - the one guy who can foil their plans. You spend all that time doing subquest and shit in the ravines but those dudes just had to choose the moment you'd talk with Henselt to attack him. Hell, a few (gameplay) minutes back you are on your mission to recover artifacts in Aerdin. There's no way you could save the king while being there. But noooo, our 'kingslayers' have suicidal instincts after all. Remember kids - witchers are the most incompetent assassins in all Northern Kingdoms. They cannot into proper scouting.


    And finally, the crowning.

    Specimen 5.

    Show Spoiler
    During the fight with the 'assassins' they completely ignore their principal target - the king. Instead, they fight you, the dude that can make short work of them both. One more issue. Later on, you learn that you knew them. They were sort of your commrades. So why the hell are they so bent on killing you instead of their target I don't even. Even more puzzlingly - there are two of them. What stops them from splitting up - one engages you to buy the other the time needed to 'sanitize' Henselt. But nooo! We just must have epic boss fight. How I fucking hate consolish boss-battle design!!!


    Admit it guys. You must have facepalmed at this. There's no other way.

    There are many more small issues like these. I gave these examples because I remember them most vividly - I am playing Roche's path now..
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Havoc Cheerful Magician Patron

    Havoc
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,319
    Location:
    Poland
    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Specimen 1. Geralt helped with the krayan -> worked for Loredo, so it's plausible.

    Specimen 2. Strange, yes.

    Specimen 3. Roche is paid to know. He's a fucking spy-kinda.

    Specimen 4. And it takes excalty 150 days for supermutants to attack Vault 13. I think it's still plausible in that movie-kinda way.

    Specimen 5. Foltest assasin (the unnamed one) didn't turn his back on Geralt and tried to kill Foltest. This is the same. You don't turn your back and "make a run for it", when facing a witcher. Double damage, remember? :smug:
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Mrowak Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Mrowak
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,938
    Project: Eternity
    I can agree on specimen 1 and 2. But the rest? I mean, seriously?
     
    ^ Top  
  18. flabbyjack Arcane

    flabbyjack
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Messages:
    2,348
    Location:
    the area around my keyboard
    The controls are aggravating. You can tell they had some serious timing/interface problems when making this game. Simplest example is = if you are too close or too far away from an object you cannot interact with it, so I hope you enjoy having to stop and turn around every time you want to pick something up. Some containers/chests are completely inaccessible yet are usable objects(out of reach). NPCs will talk through walls like you're in the same room.

    NPCs are supposed to be human, but they seem more like zombies. "Greetings"

    Every hallway is capped at both ends by a 'loading screen' door. Did I mention you cannot use doors if you are right next to them? :rpgcodex:
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Commissar Draco Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar Patron

    Commissar Draco
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    17,782
    Location:
    Привислинский край
    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Witcher then was seen as part of blue stripes spec unit, whose commander Roche has the jurisdiction over all scoiatel, it like modern sheriff's deputy from Hiscksville stopping DHS/CIA/FBI agent from questioning the deteined AQ suspect. All the rest is nitpicking in all the games the evil invasion of doom is stoped untill you gather all the loot and rescue all the cats from trees. Only nitpick from me is that after all you must do do to rescue Henselt you can kill him yourself later. He's prick so I'm not complaining :smug: but it made chapter 2 rather pointless.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. sea inXile Entertainment Developer

    sea
    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,698
    Others have addressed these, but I don't think it's fair to rail on what character X says being a plot hole. Remember that characters are driven by emotions, and suffer changes in their opinions, beliefs, and so on. What's more, Letho and Geralt could both simply be saying things without thinking much about it. Just think about all the times you say X in one situation and Y in another, how often you contradict yourself day in and day out. Humans aren't fundamentally rational in all aspects or consistent in what they think (this is a key underlying theme of The Witcher, it's worth noting) and so it's not really a "plot hole" for people to make mistakes when recounting events or to change their minds.

    I guess one could take that as an explanation for genuine mistakes on the part of the writers, but honestly, unless it's an even that's being depicted in real-time or being recounted 100% as fact and as authoritative, I don't think it's fair to pin the blame on the writers when it's perfectly possible they're accounting for multiple interpretations of events. I'm also much more forgiving of The Witcher because, again, the first game played around a lot with this idea to pretty interesting effect (mostly in presenting situations where the truth was never clear and came down both to the path the player pursued, or the opinions and ideas of the involved characters).
     
    ^ Top  
  21. Data4 Arcane

    Data4
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,193
    Location:
    Over there.
    OP Translation: "I cannot into the Codex liking a mainstream game."
     
    ^ Top  
  22. Havoc Cheerful Magician Patron

    Havoc
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,319
    Location:
    Poland
    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Suspension of disbelief?
     
    ^ Top  
  23. Mrowak Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Mrowak
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,938
    Project: Eternity
    Oh fuck, there we go again. One of the maladies of the Fantasy genre is the complete misinterpretation of what 'suspension of disbelief' is.

    It is commonly held conviction that the term refers to the audiences ability to forgive the medium logical fuckups, gaps in reasoning, characters' behaviour denying common sense etc. In other words, according to this view the whole weight of finding events credible falls to the reader/viewer/gamer. As long as he keeps telling himself stuff like, 'well, that's fantasy; what did you expect?' this type of 'suspension' takes place.

    The original meaning of the term came about in English Romanticism era. It was the formula that justified using fantasy and fantastical imagery in poetry. Long story short it refers here to writer's ability to instill the plausibility of events in the audience in spite of using fantastical devices. And that formulation makes the whole world of difference. It suddenly falls to the author to believably justify potentially critical errors in the narrative. If one resolves to employ 'the otherworldy' in his works he must take great pains to make the setting seemless and inherently logical. For example, if you decide to introduce magic into the setting, you've got to think about all kinds of remnifications it would entail - social, political, economic and so on. If done right, with believable context, good characterisation, probable events, the magic the author used in the narrative becomes natural, logical part of the setting. Same cane be done in Sci-Fi.

    In this interpretation the reader, instead of turning the blind eye to the problems, becomes a judge. Just by the fact that the world is consistent he is encouraged to test the strength of the conceived universe. He becomes the critic. Ergo - his opinions, views and perceptions are involved in the process of the world-conception, even if it happens only in his own head. In contrast, media that seem to say: 'Don't look that way! Quick! Suspend your disbelief!' promote nothing but indolence, ineptness and retardation.

    The kind of 'suspension' being employed makes the difference between AAA quality writing and pulp fiction. Makes the difference between, say Salman's Rushdie Midnight's Children and World of Warcraft: Tides of Darkness. Or between Planescape and DragonAge.

    It is, therefore, I feel, somewhat of a failure on CDP Red's part that otherwise strong narrative has to make such silly concessions which could have been easily amended. The most annoying part is that some of them stem directly from 'consolish' design. I just hope that with TW3 they don't go full derp with inplausability of the story.
     
    ^ Top  
  24. Havoc Cheerful Magician Patron

    Havoc
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,319
    Location:
    Poland
    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Where's the TL;DR? :M
     
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.