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Might and Magic Confessions of a Save Scummer

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Invictus, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. Old Hans Cipher

    Old Hans
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    im just imagining Dr. Phil going through your random windows folders and finding old save files and he's all disappointed
    >Old Dragon Age 1 save games in the win32 folder? from 2009?

    then audience would gasp in surprise
     
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  2. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    I used to savescum as a kid, but for me the big thing was the creeping feeling - is this actually fun? Does anyone actually enjoy sitting there for 20 minutes reloading next to a chest?

    Sometimes, I have reloaded dozens of times maybe to fight some optional boss on super hard difficulty, but that is fun when you are trying different strategies. If it was just about reloading for better initiative, or reloading until that Disintegrate spell hits Firkraag, then there really is no functional difference between that and cheating except it wastes more time. Any feeling that it's more legit to roll 500 times to get the perfect dice is, in the end, misleading.

    A lot of this is also a FOMO thing. Often we are doing it because we imagine that reloading for 20 mins to get that rare Dong of Power will make a huge difference in our party power. But half the time, we realise that we spent 20 mins on the Dong of Power, which gave us a 10% boost in party power for about 2 hours until we outgrow it and it doesn't really matter. At which point, much like potions we never use, it turns out it wasn't a great use of time...
     
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  3. RayF Arcane Patron Developer

    RayF
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    I really do understand your position, but IDGAF how people choose to have fun in a SP game. The only person they are "cheating" is themselves, and that's their prerogative. I don't save scum; I think it's pointless in all variations because all you are doing is substituting time and tedium for what should be fun gameplay. If a game requires me to save scum to progress, I call it a loss and play something else.

    But some people love it.
     
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  4. Citizen Arcane

    Citizen
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    Autosave is the way to go. I have an attention span of a goldfish so I often forget to manually save the game for a few hours especially if I'm really immersed, so I often lose hours of progress to some stupid death in games with manual save system
     
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  5. Apostle Hand Savant Possibly Retarded

    Apostle Hand
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    I don't save scum often at least not in hopeless attempt to gain something not so significant out of it, but I often save multiple times at some point. Also I forget sometimes have I saved or not, so I save anyway to be sure, but sometimes I fuck up and load instead of save, or outright forget to save at all.
     
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  6. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    I sometimes save scum difficult battles when I realize I did obvious mistakes. So I correct my own mistakes sometimes, but virtually never the dice cast by the computer.
     
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  7. Pechorin Guest

    Pechorin
    I don't save scum. At heart I am a gambling man, and for me of all the possibilities there is only one that appeals to me the most: the present. I don't care about countless what if's as far as anything in the past is concerned. Therefore I put pressure on myself to succeed and win no matter what. A challenge is only exciting for the vast disparity between its outcomes: a catastrophical failture or a brilliant triumph. There is nothing more soulless, sterilized and lame than reloading every single encounter to do it flawlessly or to get the best drops. I strongly despise games that have technical difficulties or have a tendency to crash often as they encourage excessive saving and reloading.

    Imagine wasting 20 minutes saving and reloading an encounter with some mobs to do it perfectly vs playing the game blind, finding some difficulty, and using your player skill and wits to adapt and win. My favourite moments have been those where I nearly perished in the game because I was unprepared and made some mistakes, but I managed to win anyways. I learnt from it. Above all it was fun and felt like an adventure. Do you really like give up as soon as any difficulty presents itself? Or do you really care that much to do marginally better in a game where you will succeed anyways?
     
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  8. RayF Arcane Patron Developer

    RayF
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    Save-scumming is a natural outgrowth of competitiveness. Anyone can win a game, but who can win it perfectly? What does perfect gameplay even look like? This can lead to interesting meta-gameplay so I don't fault people for being interested in it.

    For example, once I wanted to see what it would look like if the hapless 1962 Mets (who went 40-120) played an undefeated 162-0 season. Which players and pitchers would have to go crazy and what would their player seasons look like? So I started save-scumming in Out of Park Baseball. It was a pain in the ass because that team really really sucked. After I got to about 45-0, my stamina ran out and I stopped. But I can see why it might be fun.
     
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  9. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    Having it enabled by default is like having any other cheat enabled by default.
     
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  10. RayF Arcane Patron Developer

    RayF
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    Saying that using a feature that the dev is intentionally providing is cheating seems like a real stretch to me. In a SP game, I suspect it's only "cheating" for people who don't want to do it but have no impulse control so they do it anyway and then feel dirty afterwards.
     
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  11. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    nope it's cheating
     
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  12. RayF Arcane Patron Developer

    RayF
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    This thread is like deja vu for me from the 1990s when I would get into online debates with fundy Christians who were insistent about how improper sex was sinful.

    JESUS KNOWS YOU ARE SAVE SCUMMING, YOU HEATHEN.
     
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  13. Black Angel Arcane

    Black Angel
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    Here we can see an alleged time traveler (according to her lore anyway) losing only one lockpick, after savescumming travel back through time when she loses too many lockpicks. In Oblivion lmaoooooo
    Can confirm. After dying to stupid circumstances like drowning to death or stuck and buried within sand in Tales of Maj'Eyal, I'm just not the same man I used to be...
     
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  14. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    Imagine playing the game blind, finding some difficulty*, and using your player skill and wits to adapt and win... then reloading to do it perfectly.

    [​IMG]

    * of course, if I am finding some difficulty, I am already playing it wrong and my strategy needs to be revised to make sure this never happens again
     
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  15. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    - You waste your time on reloading!
    - What do you propose?
    - Play games that at a whim wipe your entire progress and expect you to restart from ground zero!

    Yeah, right. With backups, sucker.
     
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  16. Pechorin Guest

    Pechorin
    Anyone can ride a bicycle with three wheels.
    I've used saves to fuck around in games too, but I think it is very different from what is described in the posts that have been posted in this thread, which read like messages from an OCD support group and desperate calls for help.
    I've learnt how to handle a specific kind of a situation by surviving the first encounter. I'll do it perfectly the next time I encounter this situation in the game. Or on a new walktrough. Chances are if the game is good the next encounter will be different, but there will be something I can take away from my previous experience to do well. Something tells me save scummers must be very risk averse in real life. At least that is my uneducated guess.
     
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  17. Ismaul Citizen First Class #3333 Patron

    Ismaul
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    I save a lot but try to never reload.

    I'm like a save scummer without the scum. When I reload it's about exploring choices rather than loot.

    I tried save scumming for loot once, it made the game much less fun and much more tedious. Seriously bad habit. Plus it kills the challenge of the game as having uber loot means you're OP against enemies.

    Better play a gambler's game like Diablo or Path of Exile than save scum. At least you're playing to get a chance at more randomized loot, rather than waiting in loading screens like a low life degenerate.
     
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  18. Testownia Guest

    Testownia
    Unfortunately, rusty_shackleford, this isn't a case of "stealth cheating". I really DO have OCD/pedantry. Imagine this scenario - you save a game having 459 gold. Not 460 - a nice round number, or 462 - an even number, both of which would be acceptable to your twisted brain. So then I can do two things:
    1. Reload, and fiddle with the local merchant to get the "perfect" amount of gold in my inventory.
    2. Don't reload, and then not be able to fall asleep, because that number is burrowing into your brain.

    Add to that the fact that I "collect" saves, making them a sort of chronicle of my journey, and save-scumming is literally the only thing keeping me from going mad.
     
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  19. Cpt. Dallas Educated

    Cpt. Dallas
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    I can't say I've SS'ed to game the RNG for loot, but I've used it most egregiously to pick through entire dialogue trees. And jumping puzzles. They suck.
     
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  20. RayF Arcane Patron Developer

    RayF
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    My favorite time traveling scene. So much implied save-scumming in this movie:

     
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  21. Jonathan "Zee Cat Learned

    Jonathan "Zee Cat
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    i see u are a cultured man. [​IMG]
     
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  22. gurugeorge Arcane

    gurugeorge
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    There are positive and negatives to it, I think, and for me a lot depends on whether the game has a compelling enough story or not. If it does, then savescumming is poison and forward motion without even thinking about saves is the best and most immersive thing. But if a game is interesting gameplay-wise, but not all that engaging on the story front, I like to piddle about and try different tactics or maybe satisfy curiosity about different dialogue choices.

    And then of course there's the point that some games are better made and more stable than others, and with some games you can't really trust them not to break, and if you have only one save you're screwed.

    If the game is capable of saving unobtrusively (i.e. without jerking or halting), the best compromise is a generous quiver of autosaves (5 or 6) at maybe 3-5 min intervals; but some games can't autosave unobtrusively. The next best thing is half a dozen rolling quicksaves, so the extent of your thinking about saving is just hitting one key, but you do have some reach backwards in time.

    Basically the crucial point is that the thought of saving in any form will take up some mindshare and pull you out of immersion to some degree, and headlong commitment is much more engaging and immersive. But sometimes compromises have to be made for the sake of irl convenience or to get around a game that's otherwise good but not all that solid on a nuts and bolts level.

    Another point is that some of have a strong aversion to repeating something we've already done - and this is actually even more true with story engagement. And this often clashes with the old skool game dev idea of repeating something till you beat it.
     
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  23. Black Angel Arcane

    Black Angel
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    I haven't watch the movie, I couldn't get it from watching the video, and reading the comments doesn't help at all.

    Man, savescumming is that confusing, huh...
    What, the toxic time-travelling gremlin? Or Tales of Maj'Eyal?
     
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  24. Nifft Batuff Arbiter

    Nifft Batuff
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    Do you know what I hate more than save-scumming?

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Savecummer Latest Doxxer Account Edgy

    Unwanted
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    No it doesnt. If anything, it makes you more rigorous and you start using virtual machines with a complete system state...
    [​IMG]
     
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