Crispy™ Controversial opinions about RPGs that you know deep down are true.

[anvi]

RPGs are kinda shit. They seemed so promising in the early days but they never reached where they were going. The peak in the 90s was decent, but still not great. Generally weak combat, the exploration is a boring and pointless timesink, the characters are all stupid and annoying as are the stories and dialogue, they are mostly childish in tone, they are full of stupid aspie chores like inventory management and looting endless shit, filler quests, etc. They are basically just objectively bad games and people don't want to admit it . They were heading somewhere glorious, but along the way it exploded catastrophically and fragmented into arpgs, jrpgs, mmorpgs, rtwp, diablo clones, etc, etc. and they all suck because there is no core franchise driving things forward. If the M&M series survived, and wizardry, and SSI, etc. then by now the competition would have forced them to innovate them into really great games, but they all died so degenerates like EA and Bethesda can get away with plopping out their endless half baked crap. The whole RPG genre stagnated, tragic.

There are only a few exceptions. TOEE, FFT, and one or two I can't remember.

The saddest thing to me is that even what most people want is probably not even good enough anymore. Even if you got a tactical turn based full RPG, it is still only really retreading ground that we already explored thoroughly 20-30 years ago. And it wasn't even that good then... The best people hope for today is something that was just ok 30 years ago. How pathetic is that? What we need is TOEE plus better tech, a bigger budget, and some innovative new ideas, and that is just so unlikely. Maybe some day, but gaming moves too slowly. It took ~25 years to get a sequel to my favorite game (EverQuest) and even that is an oddity. Say BG3 was a big success then maybe other companies will join in and start trying to innovate in the tactical RPG genre again, but it will take 10 years for that to develop into something similar to 90s era games. Then at least 10 more years to develop into what I've been dreaming of since the 1980s. So even if things went my way, it would still take 20 years to get where I want it to get. That's too slow. I'll be trying to enjoy it with cataracts and arthritis.

 

[somewhatgiggly]

RPGs are kinda shit. They seemed so promising in the early days but they never reached where they were going. The peak in the 90s was decent, but still not great. Generally weak combat, the exploration is a boring and pointless timesink, the characters are all stupid and annoying as are the stories and dialogue, they are mostly childish in tone, they are full of stupid aspie chores like inventory management and looting endless shit, filler quests, etc. They are basically just objectively bad games and people don't want to admit it . They were heading somewhere glorious, but along the way it exploded catastrophically and fragmented into arpgs, jrpgs, mmorpgs, rtwp, diablo clones, etc, etc. and they all suck because there is no core franchise driving things forward. If the M&M series survived, and wizardry, and SSI, etc. then by now the competition would have forced them to innovate them into really great games, but they all died so degenerates like EA and Bethesda can get away with plopping out their endless half baked crap. The whole RPG genre stagnated, tragic.

There are only a few exceptions. TOEE, FFT, and one or two I can't remember.

The saddest thing to me is that even what most people want is probably not even good enough anymore. Even if you got a tactical turn based full RPG, it is still only really retreading ground that we already explored thoroughly 20-30 years ago. And it wasn't even that good then... The best people hope for today is something that was just ok 30 years ago. How pathetic is that? What we need is TOEE plus better tech, a bigger budget, and some innovative new ideas, and that is just so unlikely. Maybe some day, but gaming moves too slowly. It took ~25 years to get a sequel to my favorite game (EverQuest) and even that is an oddity. Say BG3 was a big success then maybe other companies will join in and start trying to innovate in the tactical RPG genre again, but it will take 10 years for that to develop into something similar to 90s era games. Then at least 10 more years to develop into what I've been dreaming of since the 1980s. So even if things went my way, it would still take 20 years to get where I want it to get. That's too slow. I'll be trying to enjoy it with cataracts and arthritis.

Is EQ a good waste of time? I can't do shit in RS and Tibia is nigh unbreakable. EL is meh.

 

[DalekFlay]

There are others like Witcher 3 and Skyrim where you

...need to install better quest objectives mod.

If there's a mod that has the voiced NPCs give you more quest location information and context so you can find it on your own (without a jarring difference in quality), and redesigns the world based around that with more in-world navigation landmarks, I'd love to see it. I doubt this exists but I guess I'll google what you're talking about.

 

[anvi]

RPGs are kinda shit. They seemed so promising in the early days but they never reached where they were going. The peak in the 90s was decent, but still not great. Generally weak combat, the exploration is a boring and pointless timesink, the characters are all stupid and annoying as are the stories and dialogue, they are mostly childish in tone, they are full of stupid aspie chores like inventory management and looting endless shit, filler quests, etc. They are basically just objectively bad games and people don't want to admit it . They were heading somewhere glorious, but along the way it exploded catastrophically and fragmented into arpgs, jrpgs, mmorpgs, rtwp, diablo clones, etc, etc. and they all suck because there is no core franchise driving things forward. If the M&M series survived, and wizardry, and SSI, etc. then by now the competition would have forced them to innovate them into really great games, but they all died so degenerates like EA and Bethesda can get away with plopping out their endless half baked crap. The whole RPG genre stagnated, tragic.

There are only a few exceptions. TOEE, FFT, and one or two I can't remember.

The saddest thing to me is that even what most people want is probably not even good enough anymore. Even if you got a tactical turn based full RPG, it is still only really retreading ground that we already explored thoroughly 20-30 years ago. And it wasn't even that good then... The best people hope for today is something that was just ok 30 years ago. How pathetic is that? What we need is TOEE plus better tech, a bigger budget, and some innovative new ideas, and that is just so unlikely. Maybe some day, but gaming moves too slowly. It took ~25 years to get a sequel to my favorite game (EverQuest) and even that is an oddity. Say BG3 was a big success then maybe other companies will join in and start trying to innovate in the tactical RPG genre again, but it will take 10 years for that to develop into something similar to 90s era games. Then at least 10 more years to develop into what I've been dreaming of since the 1980s. So even if things went my way, it would still take 20 years to get where I want it to get. That's too slow. I'll be trying to enjoy it with cataracts and arthritis.

Is EQ a good waste of time? I can't do shit in RS and Tibia is nigh unbreakable. EL is meh.

I love it but it depends what you like. It is quite brutal and unwelcoming which is partly what makes it special but it can scare most people away. Also it is so old now that it has a lot of hurdles for new players. Also real EQ is not very good anymore, it is better to play on an emulator like p99 which is more like the game was at release.

 

[JarlFrank]

Elven women getting with human men is the high fantasy version of the nerd getting the cheerleader.

I just finished a Dragon Age 2 replay (I know, I know) and the elf chick Merrill is probably the biggest "manic pixie dream girl" in RPGs I can think of. Pure nerd bait for those Joss Whedon fanboys just waiting for their chance with the hot "nerd" girl. She never even wears shoes.

Yeah, she's 100% foot fetish bait

Literally the only reason I even torrented DA2, but it was so tedious I uninstalled it after an hour.

 

[JarlFrank]

she's screaming, hollering, saying whatever is Japanese for "FUCK ME SQUID-SAMA"

"This hateful octopus, fu, fu, fu, fu...rather, aa, aa..sucking on the surface of the inner mouth of my womb until I'm breathless, aa, eee, I'm coming! By that projecting mouth. By that projecting mouth the open vagina is teased. Oh! Oh! Are, are... What to do? Aa, yoo, oo, oo, oo, ooo, aaree, oo, oo good, oo, good, good, good, haa, aa, good, good, haa, good, fu, fu, fuu, fuu. Again! Yoo, yoo, yoo, yoo. Ee, moo. I'm becoming ticklish, zo, zo...One after another until I lose track, fu, fu, fuu, fuu, limits and boundaries are gone oo, oo, oo, I've arrived, aa, aa, are, are, there, there, uu, mu, mu, mu, fumu, fumu, uuu, I'm coming! I'm coming!"

Actual 19th century Japanese octopus porn fiction, literally translated

 

[Cryomancer]

Balancefags produce way more decline than console gamers and mobile gamers combined.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I agree. More RPG's should have destructive buildings too.

Check out Freedom Force. Saving the neighborhood without annihilating it is a big part of the game. Things can get really interesting trying to avoid collateral damage from your own abilities, especially when a villain is reckless with theirs.

 

[Cryomancer]

Is not a opinion, but i don't know where to post this question and will not create a thread only for this.

Why balance fags complain a lot about magic being too good in highly magical settings like BG2 BUT doesn't wanna to nerf firearms on Fallout New Vegas? Arguing that a guy with a knife should be effective as a anti materiel rifle with explosive rounds at 200m?

 

[DalekFlay]

Why balance fags complain a lot about magic being too good in highly magical settings like BG2 BUT doesn't wanna to nerf firearms on Fallout New Vegas? Arguing that a guy with a knife should be effective as a anti materiel rifle with explosive rounds at 200m?

Melee weapons in a game like that should be OP for stealth and weak for normal combat engagements, IMO.

 

[Cryomancer]

Melee weapons in a game like that should be OP for stealth and weak for normal combat engagements, IMO.

I believe that depends. For long range stealth, the best weapon on FNV is the .308 LM rifle with the scope AND suppressor. Anti materiel rifle, even with suppressor is too loud. For CQB stealth, IMO melee weapons should be the best.

Other thing that could make New Vegas EVEN BETTER is if you could create your own securitrons and drive armored vehicles.

 

[pakoito]

Almost all "dice roll" combat sucks.

 

[DalekFlay]

I believe that depends. For long range stealth, the best weapon on FNV is the .308 LM rifle with the scope AND suppressor. Anti materiel rifle, even with suppressor is too loud. For CQB stealth, IMO melee weapons should be the best.

Well yeah, long range stealth with a bat doesn't make any sense. I meant close quarters. I think in games like that they try and balance all weapons for all situations, but I'd rather they be situational. Make knives and swords have a massive stealth bonus, but make them almost ridiculous to try and use in an open field engagement.

 

[TemplarGR]

Bethesda is the best CRPG designer and the only one interested (perhaps alongside CDPROJEKT) in advancing the computer-assisted role playing experience design above what existed in the past, not just emulating 70s tabletop games or cloning 90s computer games.

Also, role playing is not about stats or strategy. Those things exist in the tabletop because it is the only way to structure the LARPing, plus you need something physical to sell to sheep in order to tax them for roleplaying. DnD is literally just someone watching kids playing knights and dragons or cops and robbers and deciding that it would be profitable to sell a set of rules to those kids so they can play the same games but under his conditions and expensive book series. Computer games can be far more advanced in LARPing and Bethesda proved that, that is why their games are the best places to actually role play in single player and that is why Skyrim is still getting tons of concurrent players even a decade after release, while your indie isometric trash don't see even 10% of those numbers, combined.

 

[Cryomancer]

• Lore > Story
• Regional conflicts > Saving the world
• Variety and consistency > Balance and accessibility
• Order VS Chaos > Good VS Evil
• Paizo > WoTC

playing experience design above what existed in the past,

Above in what aspect? P2W microtransactions?

y. Those things exist in the tabletop because it is the only way to structure the LARPing

Wrong. Stats exists to describe and measure things. Even on non RPG games, Racing games often shows how a car has good acceleration with stats. In RPG, is a way to put your character and the rest of the world into perspective and establishes what he can and cannot do. Hell, even anime databooks has stats describing how characters are. BUGThesda removed it because they believe that their playerbase is too dumb to understand it.

Not because it is a "evolution". This type of """evolution""" doesn't happens with other things. You don't see the new version of autocad with less features than the previous edition. But you see skyrim without polearms, mark/recall, levitation, spellmaking(...)

DnD is literally just someone watching kids playing knights and dragons or cops and robbers and deciding that it would be profitable to sell a set of rules to those kids so they can play the same games but under his conditions and expensive book serie

Completely wrong. D&D was born from WAR GAMING, trying to put fantastic elements and more focus on heroes in this games.

Skyrim is still getting tons of concurrent players even a decade after release, while your indie isometric trash don't see even 10% of those numbers, combine

MOBAs and FPS are far more played than action games with few RPG elements on steamcharts, that means that CS:GO is the best game ever and DOTA2 the second best game? https://steamcharts.com/top

The unique RPG in the top 10 most played on steam at moment is Path of Exile. Which is Diablo 3 but good. PoE is far above most AAA games. And Skyrim is only played due mods.

 

[Sarathiour]

Lore > Story

At first, i wanted to disagree, but after giving in some thought, lore is an important part of world-building. And it's generally easier for good world-building to "carry" a bland story than the opposite.

Regional conflicts > Saving the world

Order VS Chaos > Good VS Evil

Those two are a bit of the same thing, and are about whether it's morally ambiguous or not. When the goal is to the save the world, you're quite often the good guy, and the bad guy is at best someone with a misguided goal. So the resulting story is quite shallow.
Regional conflict is better, i find it more interesting when it's not good guy vs bad guy, but "us" against "them", because we have a conflict of interest, or ideology.

Paizo > WoTC

Regarding crpgs , or generally speaking ?

 

[Cryomancer]

Regarding crpgs , or generally speaking ?

Licensing for eg. Paizo allowed WoTR to be PATHFINDER 1E while BG:ToB got rushed to not be forced to be on 3e.

 

[Sweeper]

Balancefags produce way more decline than console gamers and mobile gamers combined.

That's not actually controversial though.

 

[Serus]

Bethesda is the best CRPG designer and the only one interested (perhaps alongside CDPROJEKT) in advancing the computer-assisted role playing experience design above what existed in the past, not just emulating 70s tabletop games or cloning 90s computer games.

Also, role playing is not about stats or strategy. Those things exist in the tabletop because it is the only way to structure the LARPing, plus you need something physical to sell to sheep in order to tax them for roleplaying. DnD is literally just someone watching kids playing knights and dragons or cops and robbers and deciding that it would be profitable to sell a set of rules to those kids so they can play the same games but under his conditions and expensive book series. Computer games can be far more advanced in LARPing and Bethesda proved that, that is why their games are the best places to actually role play in single player and that is why Skyrim is still getting tons of concurrent players even a decade after release, while your indie isometric trash don't see even 10% of those numbers, combined.

Could you stop being so obvious in your trolling, please? I've complemented You once that you are greatly improving in that regard. And then you make this... thing... post... whatever it was. Predictably you only baited one newbie and only to a half-assed response. Git gut (or keep inclining) at this or shut up. Trolling needs to be funny or at least a bit smart, otherwise is a waste of time. Both for the wannabe troll and the bored readers.

 

[EldarEldrad]

Could you stop being so obvious in your trolling, please? I've complemented You once that you are greatly improving in that regard. And then you make this... thing... post... whatever it was. Predictably you only baited one newbie and only to a half-assed response. Git gut (or keep inclining) at this or shut up. Trolling needs to be funny or at least a bit smart, otherwise is a waste of time. Both for the wannabe troll and the bored readers.

Nah, man, the problem is he is not trolling.

 

[Gyor]

Final Fantasy 1 was the best of the series.

NWN 2 is the best Forgotten Realms CRPG, until BG3.

Larian Studios made the right decision making BG3 turn based.

Nevergood Online (Neverwinter online) is a shitty attempt at 4e rules.

Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude is by fair the best of the serious by far.

No one actually gives a fuck about Subverse's game play, were there for the titty physics.

Post apocalyptic nuclear/zombie Dystopia plots are starting to get boring.

We are on the verge of a new turn based CRPG Golden Age.

Combat in the Gold Box games was more fun then BG1.

Solasta maker Tactical Adventures and Pathfinder 1&2 maker Owlcat are future Larian Studios, and BG3 is going to be so big, there will be nothing you can compare future Larian Studios too.

Chronicles of Darkness is better then Vampire Masquarade and a turn based Vampire: The Requiem 2e would have made a better vampire game then VtM. Changeling: The Lost 2e turned based would be even more epic.

Fallout 2 is way, way for fun then its sequels.

The Forgotten Realms is an awesome setting and it dominates and eats other settings because it's the best.

 

[TemplarGR]

Gyor, amazing, everything you said, was wrong.

 

[curds]

Fallout 2 is better than Fallout 1.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Fallout 2 is way, way for fun then its sequels.

Where's the controversy here?

 

[TemplarGR]

Where's the controversy here?

The whole world generally disagrees. Tens of millions of people prefer its sequels and can't stand Fallout 2 because to them it is no fun at all.